Replies

1. 
   calvin | Jan 13, 2012 02:04pm | #1

   fredo

   I'm going to assume that the block is what moved, taking the wood columns above with it.  With gutters directly over that area, it's not far fetched to suspect that water over the years has eroded the ground below enough to have compromised the footers below the block, causing it to tip outward.  If the other side is the same, that would be my bet.

   I don't know the fix until you excavate enough to find out what to do with the footings.

   Easy to pull back in?  

2. 
   Piffin | Jan 13, 2012 05:22pm | #2

   I don't see a cheap fix

   Notice that the porch floor has a really bad sag on the right side to the front steps ( I assume - not showing in the photo)

   That appears to be a solid deck with carpet on it and the underskirting is also solid. Those are conditions that lead to rot. The sag could be an indication of rot.

   There is what appears to be a newer foundation pad under that low spot.

   It is possible that these two problems are related.

   I theorize that the sag was even worse. Someone placed that pad and jacked up the low bad porch. The triangulation of stresses then pushed out on the ston column.

   Calvin is also right. This could be a combination of both things. The footing undermined and the porch pushing out

   Hope what I said makes sense. I can't do a dynamic 3D with arrows and pointers, etc

   edit - I think I also see that the beam sags to center of house. It so, then it is pulling the top of the wood column over with it, so there is a combination of stone out and wood in that makes it ook so bad

3. 
   fredo | Jan 13, 2012 08:49pm | #3

   The beam isn't noticeably sagging, it passes the eyeball test. The outer posts are tipping but they haven't sunk. I think the reason the wood post looks like it's out worse than the concrete is just because it's much shorter so it has to angle more in order to deflect the same distance.

   My theory was that rotted deck-to-concrete-columns supports led to the deck sagging and putting outward pressure on the columns, spreading them. Calvin's explanation is most likely a factor too, builders weren't too big on footings back in the day.

   My idea was to cut off the railings and shore up the roof, jack up the deck back to its intended position so the supports line up with the pockets in the concrete, wrap the concrete sections of the L and R columns with lumber and (carefully) pull them together with a come along.

   Assuming that that succeeds in bringing the posts back to plumb, the question would be how to keep them there. Excavating around the post bases and pouring new footings might help but I wonder if that would be enough. Obviously I haven't dealt with this situation before but given the number of bowed out porch posts I see around here, a lot of folks must have tackled this before. Any thoughts or comments are welcome!

4. 
   DanH | Jan 13, 2012 11:35pm | #4

   You sure they were ever straight in the first place?

5. 
   hammer1 | Jan 14, 2012 05:14pm | #5

   "client is on a budget,

   "client is on a budget, looking for a 5-10 yr. fix" Sounds like a hard place to start. The house is 112 years old for crying out loud. I think there will be more involved than what it appears. Could be dangerous pushing on the stone columns. You need to know how far down they go and what's under them. That porch has been worked on before, the iron rails and skirting aren't original and the deck structure could be in questionable shape, likely pockets in the columns for the framing. On a budget doesn't match with supporting the roof, excavating to the bottom of the stone columns, dealing with any structure issues and rebuilding any problem areas. If you could push the stone without breaking mortar joints, what will hold them there? You'd better cover all the contingencies in your contract, school the customer and make sure they have the dough. It looks like a can of worms to me. If mud jacking could work on the columns, I still think the framing would have to go.

6. 
   cussnu2 | Jan 14, 2012 07:17pm | #6

   How long has he lived there?  How long has it been like that/  Has he monitored it?  

   Need to find out why 1 or 2 x 10 is out of level.  Is it structural?  If the porch floor is stable and sound  fix that so your eye doesn't instantly go to that.  If hes been there a while and he says its always been like that, then I may just opt to support the roof and straighten only the wood post.

   Might also explore supporting the roof and mud jacking the block pillar but you would probably have to decouple the floor from the pillar.  I'm sure they could pump mud under that pillar and bring it back into level and then you could deal with the wood.

1. 
   DanH | Jan 14, 2012 07:31pm | #7

   Notice that the porch decking appears to be tight against the block.  Of course, hard to tell what's going on at the other end, and the resolution is not high enough to see the joint between deck and block real well, but it suggests that situation has existed for a long time, and either the deck's been replaced after the pillars tilted or the pillars were never straight in the first place.

   [Though looking again, and comparing the pillar to the building in the distance, the pillar doesn't appear to be tilted enough to notice.  Rather, the porch roof has racked to the right (if it was ever right in the first place).]

1. 
   cussnu2 | Jan 14, 2012 11:35pm | #8

   You know it is hard to tell if and or how bad the block pillar really is.  The worst looking part is the horizontal 1x10 or 2x10.  If the porch floor is stable and not really racked as much as that board would imply,  I would cover that sucker up.  (Please don't tell me you HAVE to tear it apart and start over.  The client wants a cosmetic fix...as long as its stable and sound, I have no problem making it look better.)  The next part that then bugs they eye is the wood post on top of the block pillar.  Again, provided its stable and sound (roof, wood post, block pillar) I would support the roof, reinstall the post to plumb and cover any shimming with a new scribed skirt around the bottom.  The next level up from that would be mud jacking the post and then probably a complete rebuild.

   If you were a car salesman and the guy said he wanted a used car but he would like a new paint job, you would get his signature on the way to the body shop and not think twice.  No way would you tell him he had to buy a new car or you wouldn't sell him any car at all.

1. 
   DanH | Jan 15, 2012 08:06am | #9

   But if he expects the new paint job to make the engine run smoother you'd be ill-advised to go along with it.

   Based on what I can see, just straightening the wood post somehow is probably the best approach.  (Note that what you want is for it to appear vertical relative to the lines of the house.)

   (But slap a level against that block pillar and see just how bad it is.)