Replies

1. 
   user-201496 | Jan 07, 2009 08:25pm | #1

   Lowes has a good unit in that size. I paid about $600 4 years ago. I start it up about every 4 to 6 months to keep it ready to go.

2. 
   RobWes | Jan 07, 2009 08:52pm | #2

   After toying around with other gen sets I'm sold on my Kohler for a stand by unit and Honda for portables.

   Sure I spent more than some folks but they run when you want them to versus working on them.

3. 
   dude | Jan 07, 2009 09:22pm | #3

   lately i have been buying 10 hp 5000 cont 6500 surge chinese diesel units for customers

   they come with a battery  and cold weather starting button

   the fact they weigh 300 lbs cuts down on theft  risk

   here we get them from  Princess Auto Supply for about 1300 cdn + tax

   dont bother  phoning for one the current wait is 2 months  as the last pile sold out like hot cakes  ( 150 on order )

   around here generators  seem to be stolen faster than the family jewels

1. 
   fingersandtoes | Jan 09, 2009 01:46am | #4

   Walmart had Chinese portable generators for $140 last fall. My neighbor bought one and I notice it was out by his garbage cans on monday.

1. 
   dude | Jan 09, 2009 04:22am | #5

   maybee walmarts are scrap but i have a 4000 watt onan that  i feel wouldent even make a good boat anchor & i paid 2200 for it over 20 years ago

   good old union made american garbage

   no wonder the chinese sell so  many engines etc

   i run all the current crop of diesel generators  we handle a minimum of 20 hrs to prove to the customers  their ability even styarting at - 30  c

   i cant even get the onan going at that temp with a 750 cca battery and high test in the tank ( US junk )

   the voltage on the chinese diesel is steady as a rock and we used seperate test meters to verify the power plant meter

1. 
   RobWes | Jan 09, 2009 05:42am | #6

   Great post.

   Compare our #### to theirs. Buy real tools and take care of them. Drag some POS out from behind the barn and expect it to work balls to the wall out of the gate. Then be PO'ed that it failed.

1. 
   dude | Jan 09, 2009 09:48pm | #8

   I dont have to  drag out the power plants from behind the barn

   the power goes out here so often i have  my diesel unit set up so given 5 minutes its up and on line

   i cant even start the backhoe in less than 30 minutes if it isent pluged in  ( - 30 c lately ) I found the gas unit would freeze up even though its on a trailer with a custom cover , but you are right its now out behind the barn where it belongs till boating time  when some one hopefully will need a anchor .

   when you have a country like China graduating 250,000 engineers a year north america better wisen up or be left behind

   having been through parts of asia on my own dollar i quickally realized that if Japan owned  one our main provinces they in no time would control a lot of the world financially seeing what they were  able to do with what they have which is no natural resources and 80 % of the population lives on 20% of the land

    

2. 
   fingersandtoes | Jan 10, 2009 08:36am | #10

   Made in China has become synonymous with poor quality. If most Chinese tools are garbage, and the small generators are garbage it does sort of lead in the direction of the large ones being a bit suspect. Maybe yours aren't, but it's hard to tell as you don't specify a brand. "Chinese" covers a fair bit of ground. I'm not pushing American made: I'm Canadian, they are all equally foreign to me. I have however owned and worked with a number of Honda generators, all of which have been extremely reliable.You might want to look a little closer at Japanese history - both it's regional imperialism, the post WW2 Allied economic re-construction and it's two recent recessions before making too many assumptions about it's economic success.

   Edited 1/10/2009 12:43 am ET by fingersandtoes

1. 
   dude | Jan 10, 2009 02:30pm | #11

   having been in Japan in places like  , Tokyo, kamakura , Osaka , Fujii , Herishima , nagasaki , Lake hakura  travelling by bus, train( bullet ) hydrofoil ,  ship and plane

   i got to see some of the islands that comprise Japan so i dident get my info from tv and the press like most

   it is a very different world when you are there not just reading about it !

   to see 200,000 people in a May day parade in Osaka is a sight to behold that did not include the Red Guards who had a earlier demonstration ( would be probally called a demonstration of civil insurection here ) especially seeing the hundreds of riot police flanking them .

   Japanese are a society that run on high test all the time as a result they can make adjustments in their economy that would horrify us

   their nick name is Japan Inc.

2. 
   DanH | Jan 10, 2009 03:29pm | #12

   Japan has laws regulating quality -- nothing gets shipped out of the country unless it passes fairly rigorous government inspection. They implemented these laws in the 50s, one industry at a time (cameras first), to change the perception of "Made in Japan". China has no such laws. If a certain quality is required the US importer must rigorously specify it and rigorously inspect for it. If this is done the Chinese are capable of delivering good quality. Too many US distributors don't understand this and work as if they were dealing with Japan.
   God is REAL, unless explicitly declared INTEGER

3. 
   GraniteStater | Jan 10, 2009 05:44pm | #13

   To assume that poor quality goods will forever be the stigma of "made in China" is a fool's assumption.After all... who would have bought a car from Korea 10 years ago?Now?http://www.hyundaigenesis.com/

4. 
   DanH | Jan 10, 2009 07:46pm | #17

   Yeah, but China's got to mimic Japan and get some government programs in place to improve quality.
   God is REAL, unless explicitly declared INTEGER

   Edited 1/10/2009 11:51 am by DanH

5. 
   fingersandtoes | Jan 10, 2009 07:45pm | #16

   I sure don't equate the quality of Japanese tools with those made in China. My comments had to do with Japan's economy. Its post-war economic boom had very little to do with Japanese business values, and these same values that were held up as a good model for western countries to follow have not proven to be much of a help solving their problems since the '90s.As I understand it you get what you ask for from Chinese manufacturers. Some companies like Mountain Equipment Coop are able to source very high end stock, while Walmart obviously does not. Chinese tools do mostly seem to suffer from the poor quality of Chinese steel, and when established brands move their production there their dependability declines.

6. 
   DanH | Jan 10, 2009 07:56pm | #18

   My point is that, if China wants the "Made in China" label to cease meaning "poor quality" they'll have to actively work to improve quality across all their industries. In the 50s, aside from cameras (which were the first products to be subjected to government quality control), Japanese products were universally (and deservedly) regarded as cheap and of poor quality. It wasn't an accident that Japan became the quality benchmark for the world, supplanting Germany and the US -- it took deliberate effort on the part of the government.
   God is REAL, unless explicitly declared INTEGER

7. 
   GraniteStater | Jan 10, 2009 09:20pm | #19

   "t wasn't an accident that Japan became the quality benchmark for the world, supplanting Germany and the US -- it took deliberate effort on the part of the government."And, interestingly, an American consultant...Edward Demming.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_DemingWho will be the Edward Demming of China?It's not a question of IF.. but rather WHEN

   Edited 1/10/2009 1:22 pm ET by GraniteStater

8. 
   DanH | Jan 10, 2009 09:32pm | #20

   IMO Demming gets too much credit, but that's another argument.
   God is REAL, unless explicitly declared INTEGER

9. 
   user-201496 | Jan 14, 2009 07:07pm | #21

   I would still rather have a German car than one from Japan.

10. 
    frenchy | Jan 14, 2009 07:21pm | #22

    I hope you like the maintinance the German cars charge! It's rare to get a service on a Mercedes for under a grand..

11. 
    Sasquatch | Jan 15, 2009 12:25am | #26

    We bought a Min-Cooper (BMW) in 2003 for my wife's commute.  It was a great little car with good mileage and good handling, as well as a good price.

    They treated us like royalty in the dealership whenever we came in.  Free lattes, biscotti, soft drinks and more in a great waiting room.

    Although I have worked on machines most of my adult life, even changing a light bulb in the MC was a royal pain - easy for a spider monkey, not so easy for 6'-6" me!

    Run-flat tires were great, except that they didn't last and the price was just crazy for replacements.

    While sipping lattes, I found it easy to run up a bill of over $500!  On this car, which costs a little over $20K, you can easily spend $30K on maintenance before you pay it off.  We sold it in 2004.

    One final note:  They give you a courtesy car while you wait if the repair will take most of the day.  I had a great BMW station wagon.  It was a rainy day and I got some mud on the car.  After our repair bill for the MC of well over $500, we got a nice letter saying that in the future there would be a charge for returning dirty courtesy cars.

    I have more stories for other great German engineering and the price you pay; however, I think I have made my point.  The Japanese cars are quite expensive up front and their sales people are downright rudely pushy.

    We now have a 98 Dodge Durango, on which I do all of the maintenance.  It still runs great at 120K.  We will replace it with a hybrid of some type to make my wife happy.

    I have a 2008 Dodge RAM Diesel 1-ton, my fifth RAM, and all I will ever drive.  I do the minor maintenance such as oil changes.  I have NEVER had a problem with any Cummins Diesel engine on any of my Dodges.  There was a power steering pump that went out during the warranty period on my 97; but that pump is technically an engine accessory and not a Cummins product.  I also replaced the starter on that truck at nearly 120K, for $230.

    My trade-in values have been exceptional.  When I traded in my '97 1 ton, it was still running like new and getting 18 mpg.  The previous trade-ups were all due to requirements not associated with the trucks, such as upgrading from a 3/4 to to a 1 ton to handle a larger camper, such as downsizing a 1-ton to a 3/4 ton to take it overseas, and such as upsizing again when coming back to the states.

    I would think twice about the costs associated with a Mercedes, a BMW, or even a VW.

12. 
    frenchy | Jan 15, 2009 02:36am | #28

    Our work trucks are vastly superior to the offering by Germans,  Even the Japanese acknowledge that by building them over here... 

      Our cars are well suited for America which is really differant than Japan or Europe.  while not built to the quality of european cars they cost less to maintain. While not up to the standards of Japanese cars for cost efficent transportation they provide us with the size Americans prefer at a price that is more modest than other places can sell the same size vehicle..

       Having said that American quaility is improving vastly over the past offerings.. The most recent economic scare is likely to force them to build to world standards rather than keep building cheaper and cheaper products..  

13. 
    RobWes | Jan 14, 2009 08:47pm | #23

    Hope you have deep pockets. Repair costs are staggering.

14. 
    user-201496 | Jan 14, 2009 10:12pm | #24

    I had a Porsche once, back in 1985. It was a joy to drive. It had the best brakes I've ever seen.

3. 
   DaveRicheson | Jan 15, 2009 12:04am | #25

   >> i have a 4000 watt onan that  i feel wouldent even make a good boat anchor & i paid 2200 for it over 20 years ago

   And we just took a couple very large Onan generators out of service and sold them for a song after gettin 40 years of service out of them.

   Then there is the hospital about 10 blocks away that has a monster Onan  backup generator.....

   I haven't seen any Chinese made backup generators in use where it really matters.

   Just because you got a POS doesn't mean all Onan gen set are junk.

1. 
   dude | Jan 15, 2009 02:39pm | #29

   your right all onans arent junk however  we installed a used 35 kw onan from a school and the engine managed to eat its bearings after about 20 hrs use

   maybee it was a dud from the word go ( ford 4cyl diesel )

   i have so far found nothing  to beat the 10 hp  5000 watt chinese diesels price wise & performance wise in its class

2. 
   frenchy | Jan 15, 2009 05:20pm | #30

   dude, I can agree and disagree with that statement.

     I've a friend who bought one of the early versions of 10KW Chinese made generators in to run his off the grid farm on. It's going on 20 years now and other than routine maintenance he's had to do nothing to it..  On the other hand it doesn't have the automatic controls so beloved by todays society..  when it's needed he has to go and start a fire out in the shed where it's kept in order to warm it up enough to start. 8 hours later equipped with starting fluid and a freshly charged, warm,  battery he can usually get it started in 30 minutes or so..

      A modern Onan will start automatically and other than a slight dimming of lights nobody notices a thing..

    The Onan is expensive to rebuild because few people rebuild them.. instead they are treated as disposable items.. many never have their oil changed or if done it is far to long an interval between oil changes. 

    I used to sell such used Gen sets.. some were replaced due to eminent failure (obviously yours) some were replaced simply because time had gone by and they were required to be replaced.

    I suspect the school knew the Gen set was on the edge of it's life and if you'd done a oil analyze you would have known as well.   Since it's a school district and they tend to be extremely cheap I think they knew when they sold it that it was on it's last legs..  

3. 
   Sasquatch | Jan 16, 2009 02:44am | #31

   Onan generators have a place in my heart.  I started working on them in 1969 when I was in the USAF.  We used them for lighting and power.  They were very reliable, and I have rebuilt or repaired what seems like countless numbers of them.  In Viet Nam, the locals used to sneak through three coils of concertina wire at night, remove the generators from our units on the perimeter, and get back out again with the generators without leaving a sign and without setting off flares or having a close encounter with 50 mikemike.  My guess was that they were practically naked to get through that wire.  Of course, they must have had some of their loose parts strapped tightly to their bodies.  Those razor blades with hooks can do a job on flesh.  Those were some mechanics!  Of course, they really needed power or they would not have taken the risk.

   I have an LP-powered Onan gen in my 97 Bigfoot.  I run it about three times a year when it is in storage.  Never had a problem, except when a mouse decided to make a home in the fan assembly.

   For anyone getting a standby generator, I recommend considering propane as the fuel.  You can avoid environmental issues.  Also, you don't have to worry about what happens to liquid fuel inside your carburetor during off-duty times. LP gas doesn't gum up, as far as I know.

4. 
   dude | Jan 16, 2009 03:11pm | #32

   propane is a very clean fuel for gas engines

   i dont know about the gas engines lately but at one time i was a quaified tech for converting gas engines to LPGthe gas engines had to be initially ru on gas to break in the cylinerwalls properly

   also at -30 c like we got right now the propane is poor at vapourizing

   as we have learned here when you have a major power failure you may have to drive a fair distance to get a working propane refill station , tanks also weigh 180 lbs & by law are supposed to be transported standing up

5. 
   jc21 | Jan 16, 2009 04:25pm | #33

   Onan is top notch in my book. Company I worked for used (and I believe still does) 6 and 12kw Onan diesel gensets for offshore rig use. Stable power- we ran computers and instrumentation off of the Onans. Few issues that I can recall in the ten years I worked there. Replaced a couple of cards and a few cases of bad fuel but I can't ever recall an engine or gen section rebuild. Easy to work on. Still kickin' myself for not getting one of their surplus 12kw sets for $800.

   "If I had my way, carmakers would create vehicles that run off of hot air. It's the kind of development that might make the U.S. Congress useful." - Scott Burgess

   Edited 1/16/2009 8:27 am ET by jc21

4. 
   BilljustBill | Jan 09, 2009 06:01am | #7

   I bought a 5,000 watt with a 6,300 surge capacity... It has a Briggs and Stratton 10 hp... 

   If I had the chance to use the $525.00 I spent, I'd get the Honda and get ELECTRIC start...

   When you need electricity, it's usually when a BUNCH of other things are going on... Wind, Rain, Ice....electric start is so much less a problem when all that is going on...

   If I had the chance to buy a HOUSE size generator, I'd go LP or one that has all 3 abilities to run different fuels.

   Bill

5. 
   Sasquatch | Jan 10, 2009 12:39am | #9

   I bought the DeWalt 4000W generator in 2003 and it is a very dependable unit.  I don't use it much right now, but I do run it regularly and it has never given me a problem.  I used it for framing for about a year.

6. 
   verl | Jan 10, 2009 06:05pm | #14

   Do you mean 6K.I Have a Multiquip with a Honda engine.It is pretty heavy so I put wheels on it.It is a nice unit.Personally I wouldn't get a real cheap unit for emergency backup because when you really need it it is nice to know it will start and provide reliable power.If you don't need 220 those Honda suitcase models are sweet.

7. 
   frenchy | Jan 10, 2009 07:25pm | #15

   Kiss.

    Buy cheap and you pay for it at the worst possible time..

    Buy wierd and there is a parts issue.. (yes all of them need new parts occasionally even if it's just fesh oil filters every 3 months) 

    Do not make the mistake that if you don't use it often you don't need to keep clean fresh oil in it.

    Multi fuel such as natural gas and gasolene?  well you are now hard wired because natural gas (or propane)  tends not to be portable..

8. 
   jimcco | Jan 15, 2009 12:38am | #27

   I realize this doesn't fit everyone; but for those with 40hp+ tractors you can get a 15000 va for $2-3000. Used ones from livestock farms are a lot less. And all with no new engine maintenance problems.