Hey All, I am new hear. From the seacoast of NH, I am working on my current project and wanted to get some input on portico style. I have removed the old stone stairs, rotted sills etc. Replaced the door, and built the porch. I will be layingthe IPE with concealed fasteners(of course) this week. I am using 2 “square recessed panel” posts(8×8) that are structural. I am hoping you all can give me some input on roof style/finishing touches. All trim is Azek. I guess I am wondering about 3 options, a shallow barrel in the ceiling, a deep barrel(both of these would extend through the gable and be open) or lastly a small return (hip acrooss the front say 2 course of shingles or so) ceiling will be finshed in a natural wood(TBD) door is Mahogany. One of the main goals in the project was to raise the roof over the door to eliminate the ugly (odd) slope over the door( a ice dam waiting to happen). These are my 3 basic ideas, any other options would be appreciatted. Deck is 66″ x 60″. I have attached a couple of pics for your reference. The garage doorways are arched if that is a consideration. Sorry for the long winded first post. Pitch will be 9/12. Thank you all in advance.
Edited 5/27/2009 5:47 pm ET by dogville
Replies
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This responce will serve as a bump to move your post back up the list, where it will be noticed.
I'm sure some of the design gurus around here just missed it yesterday. They will be along soon to offer suggestions.
BTW do not be afraid to give your post an occasional bump to move it back up the list.
I did see it, and it is an interesting challenge. I am letting it stew in my subconscious to see what happens first.This guy is doing some fine work and patiently getting things right, so he deserves consideration.
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I would consider doing the overhang in a curve from wall to wall past the stairs with an eye brow type roof to keep the water from draining on the path up to the stairs.
ANDYSZ2
WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
you mean like a cone or an eyebrow?
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I mean like I would visit the Conehead architect who dreamed up that entry and pull out his eyebrows. ;-)
Edited 5/28/2009 11:22 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
My thoughts weren't quite that harsh, but I did have a WTF moment.
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Agreed, It has driven me nuts since I purchased the home 1 year ago. I just finished retooling the entire interior(most of it) and am moving outside. I have always felt it could be a very appealing entry if altered. We will be taking the rade down 3-4" to improve drainage issues, putting in a new paver walkway. Re-roofing the house with Landmark TL's and re-trimming with AZEKS with concealed facia vents(there are only gable vents currently...
I think an eyebrow maybe but I like the idea of making a curved fascia portico instead of a hip or gable with a straight face.
I think another box in front of the door is going to highlight the strangeness of the door in a corner.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Andy can you clarify that a little for me? Perhaps by refering to Jpegs# if that makes it easier. I would appreciatte it. Not quite sure exactly what you mean by eyebrow(shallow barrel as I call it)?
I think another box in front of the door is going to highlight the strangeness of the door in a corner.
If it's done in full scale, protruding well away from the corner, it should dominate the building and give it an identity, making the corner door seem unusual and interesting, rather than peculiar and out of place.
Might be right. That is why I wanted to spend time sketching these to satisfy my own sense of curiosity and design taste. It'll be a good excercise.
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This is probably beyond the scope of what you and your client had in mind but... I'd probably try to sell a new gable or hip roof (depending on the existing style), same pitch as the existing, beginning at the ridge and covering an area of about eight-ten feet, perpendicular to the entry door.
If it interfered with those windows, you could increase the pitch to avoid that. I'd be reluctant to stick the new ridge into that valley so I'd want it to begin at the top, level with the existing ridge, as a primary consideration.
It's pretty simple, as long as you have a helper. And it would balance the scale of things while providing much better protection for that nice door.
Edited 5/28/2009 12:04 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I was thinking somewhat along this line - with a pedimented face instead of the hip I built with the cedars on it, but definitely trying to make the ridge run that valley out
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I had thought about this too, and felt it would interfere with the windows, the house is approx 8/12, I am bumping it up to 9/12 to get out of the flat spot. As it is fairly narrow, I am concerned about going to the ridge, which I agree would be the ideal solution. I am re-roofing the house next, so I will I/W that area etc. Thinking about open valleys w/copper.
I had the same initial thoughts as HVC and Piff. Who thought that up?
I think Piffin's ideas regarding a portico are headed in the right direction but it will mean redoing the steps I see being constructed. The portico will give it depth which is something you don't have now.
And it's going to need a whole lot more help then a new front door. The front door helps but it has about as much impact towards fixing the visual disaster as would be if the Texans had sent one more guy to the Alamo.
Runnerguy
Edited 5/28/2009 3:54 pm ET by runnerguy
You do Understand the Portico is a definite go, I am seeking design input. I will be using 8 x 8 recessed panel columns from classic. The deck is prepped for this, all post are nothched and set to carry post(which are load bearing type)... Agreed who thought that up... It was the result of an addition I beleive. The upsode is one of the original walls from the main house sits under that ugly flat spot, I have acces and should be able to drop some Jack's under the ridgepole to drop the load.
I'm working at sketching somethijng to satisfy my own curiosity here.
Be a while yet
But do you know you will need some vertical element at the inside corners or flanking the door? The siding shingles on the alternating walls were not laid out cleanly so while both walls have 20 courses, they do not match to line up above over the door.
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This has been my experience thus far on the shingles. the back of the house has reds(6" out) and the front was replaced with crooked course etc of whites. In some cases I have been able to "bang up" the bottom of some shingles and restaple just under the but to minimize this which drives me nuts... I plan on casing out the flank with 5/4x 6 azek with a small rabbit to receive the door jamb(I had to fur the angle area out to receive the deeper 6 9/16 jamb, the wall was approx. 5 1/2", not a bad thing, I was able to reinsulate add a 1" rigid to the outside between the straps re-sheath and drop a new electical line actually 2...) and pedament(I think that is the term)over the top. I will post a couple pics I have taken around of portico's that I liked as a jumping off point. Thanks again and I look forward to your input.
Edited 5/28/2009 9:16 pm ET by dogville
Some pics of styles I think would work with variation/modification-
#218- Like the returns with soft barrel, my post would strengthen the look
#216- the rounded trim with gable return would tie various elements of the house together.
#212-Return across Gable is classic
#228 has simple elegance. soft barrel feature, gable maybe to plain...
Ok, throw it at me......
Edited 5/28/2009 10:07 pm ET by dogville
Ok, last one and I am out like a light...
See post #104955.1 By Tim Uhl??
Also, in the same vibe of my thoughts.
In the end it is what you like best. I like a barrel but don't think it fits your house there. The second photo with the full return across the pediment is my choice.What I had set out to do was to draw up what you have in each of a couple different styles to help you see it for comparison, but I got word last evening that Mom is having surgery today for colon cancer so I am temporarily out of time and of focus.Maybe later
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Piffin, thank you for your consideration. My best to you and your family as you move forward in this challenging time. Best wishes.
doing some more thinking on this while driving this AM, I *think* that the 9/12 pitch might seem out of place too. It has the advantage of dealing with the valley issue, but balance with the rest of the house for the eyeball is important too as one approaches this home.
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The rest of the house is 8/12, do you thnk it (9/12) would be noticably different where it will not go to the peak(it is just enough to out run the flat spot).
Feel free to sketch it up, as the weather sucks, it is likely I will not get to the framing of the roof this weekend..
I seriuosly stuggled with this too, the 8/12 almost comes out of the flat spot, very close. My thought was the same, keep the same pitch if possible...
Edited 5/29/2009 2:19 pm ET by dogville
Now that I've been playing with it, the 9/12 is good.I had guessed a 5 or 6 pitch for the house.These two drawn are with 9/12 on the dormer and 5/12 on the roof with a 12' run on the main roof.Gotta go figure out how to draw a barrel open end now tho....
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which comes out something like this
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While you're at it, how about cranking out a bigger one, with the ridges joining.
The impression I'm getting from these three drawings you've presented is of a back door, not a main entrance.
back door was my first impression from his photo.Since his deck is already built, i'm trying to work with what he has, so far.You are right, I should kick over the stanchion and go feed on clover with this one. See what appears...but I have some other things going on right now....
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given my druthers, I'd probably stick something like this into that corner so the flank faces of the palladian roof flow to t he house wings, use a nearly flat roof, and not worry about the valley. A good copper man or an EPDM roof done right would handle things.
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Ahh, so now you wanna do it Gone with the Wind style.
From the Conehead version to Rhett Butler, in one swell foop. ;-)
Edited 5/29/2009 6:00 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
That is sorta what I had in mind .
My thinking is to build the round portion from existing fascia to fascia.
Oversize it with columns to the ground with flowerbeds around the columns.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
So THAT's what you meant by curved!
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"Frankly Scarlet, it seems like sublime overkill to me."
Scarlett doesn't give a Rhett's axe what it seems like to you!;)
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Edited 5/29/2009 10:38 pm ET by Piffin
apparently the censorious word checker has now caught up to the a z z spelling for a$$
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Scarlett doesn't give a Rhett's axe what it seems like to you!
Scarlett, you minx! You know how excited Rhett gets when you talk like that.
Yo, Rhett, it's time to arise and come to attention! Scarlett is calling.
Those two principal roofs going R and L from the entry corner. I may have missed it, but what is the run of each? I understand the pitch is 8:12. The photo makes it look flatter.
I would like to try and model an entry with my software.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Hard to say without a picture taken of the whole facade, but I think I would put a small porch along the wall with the slider window ending slightly beyond so the slider is in the porch. That will balance the bay window better and remove the need to try and create some wacky portico that will always look like you stuck it there. Get rid of the flat spot and have it finish in a square corner that meets the porch roof. Echo the brackets or whatever they are called under the bay in the porch. Copper roof for that and the bay window ties them together visually. Rocking chair, table and beer cooler on the porch (that last is a joke).
Something along this line, you say?
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If we're voting, that one gets my X. Looks good, quick to build and it leaves room for a small foyer or a hall closet. And, who knows, that porch might actually be useful, at least a good place to park a couple of bikes, out of the weather. All in all, best value.
Looks pretty good to me. Probably beyond the scope of this thread but if the owner cleans up a few minor details like integrating the bay window roof with the main roof and some visually heavier columns with well defined rail/picket details, he's there.
Nice job Piff!
Runnerguy
Not me, I think it was from aimless
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Oh ok. Went back and read the thread. Still pretty darn good for you two guys coming up with something on the fly.
Aimless said he pictured a chair and a beer cooler on the porch (as a joke) but I can see a nice hanging swinging bench there at the end of the porch facing the door. Throw in a coupla of hanging impatients baskets hanging from the porch eave and I believe I could enjoy a beer there.
Runnerguy
Edited 5/30/2009 3:36 pm ET by runnerguy
Yes, that is close to what I was thinking, but you've added a bump out that I like.
That bump, as sized, may contain either a closet, or a nice bench for comfortably dealing with outdoor footwear.
For a bench nook, I like to decorate it with a tiny little window.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
I wasn't thinking any details like that without a clue what the floorplan is in there.
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I agree. We don't know what the floor plan is like but if it were me I'd like to see a good "look outside" window next to the door (after all, who doesn't like to take a quick glance outside to see who's there before actually opening the door?). A 6' high window in the door doesn't provide that.
And then I'd have similair windows wrapping around the corner. From the inside it'd be great if they lined the top of a built in window seat. The transition from outside to inside would be blured with the same bank of windows, previously seen from the outside, upon entering, now seen from the inside.
Runnerguy
(who didn't use any of his 1000K allotment in photos to convey his message but wished he could have.)
but if it were me I'd like to see a good "look outside" window next to the door
You must have a shorter memory than I do. There's a ~4'X3' window adjacent to the door in Piffin's drawing.
For some reason I thought that window was not in the foyer but in another room but it probably is.
Runnerguy
It's probably not in the foyer but it is adjacent to it. I honestly prefer to approach the front door without being observed from outside (the Jehova's Witness Phobia) so I'm in favor of a peep hole viewer.
You guys are very into this, I should have post long before I began... A couple of things inside the current door is a hall to the left and a large formal roof to the right(bay window side). This front porch design is very interestin but I forgot to mention one fact "Historical Comittee" need I say more...... I am stuck with the Portico design, so it is a matter of making it as nice/complimenting to the house that it can be... So what is the consensus, full return across the front of the portico with a eyebrow facia?
Aimless and Piffin did all the work. I just noted where the hanging baskets might look good.
Runnerguy
but I forgot to mention one fact "Historical Comittee" need I say more
While in public, are you required to wear a bandage over one eye, walk with a limp and play the fife? ;-)
I'd still like to see the portico scaled up so as to dominate that side of the house. Locating the entry in an inside corner as it is, reduces the perceived scale of the portico, making it appear to be a rear entrance.
Matching the height of the new ridge to the old ridge also eliminates possible structural problems and potential leaks in that valley.
Edited 6/1/2009 12:32 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Agreed, they can be difficult, especially as I have a non-conforming home and theytry to make me conform to some rediculous standard.... I agree carrying the roof line up to match the current ridge would be ideal, But I am guessing that would require a 12-14 pitch!!! So that is why within the parameters of windows etc, I am try to make the Portico as substantial as possible...
Why is a portico OK with the historical stazis, but a porch per Pif's cartoon is not?
I used the name of the East German secret police, because the webmeisters would zap me if I typed NAH-tsee.
There must be porches inside one leg of ELLs all over town! And what made the original entry, the teenie cross-diag inside the ELL corner, its little roof cricket above, look so doggone 18th century?
Your profile is blank, so we don't have a clue as to what town that might be.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Done, a little info. there now. It is the whole "change thing. They were trying to get me to have on a certain pane size on my divides as I change them out, because there is only one real pane size in........ so it goes!
What style are you supposed to conform to?
what it is now?
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Possibly - but there don't seem to be any significant features to the part we can see, unless he is in Levittown and needs to have the post-war ranch look :-)
I spent years living in Colonial Williamsburg and there was a darling Victorian home right across the street from the Governor's Palace. The story I heard was that a couple of spinsters lived there and wouldn't sell to Rockefeller when he was buying up CW. They agreed to "allow" CW to maintain the exterior of their home so that it wouldn't be an eyesore, and they stayed in their home, which still had the glass in the door announcing it as a Dr.'s office. Probably not a true story, but always made me smile that two old ladies might have driven such a hard bargain with a well known businessman. I suppose now he could just buy off the city council to condemn it for emminent domain, since the decision of the supreme court in Kelo vs. New London.
That decision set a terrible bad precedent for this country.
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Maybe I missed it, but did you answer the question what is the actual run of that 9/12 pitch? I enjoy diddling with this when I have time, but don't feel like wasting time either with assumed values.Also what is the overhang soffit?
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I think i will answer your question(hopefully) there is no soffit on the house a build up of 1x10, 1x6 and 1x2 under the drip(gutters hange and cover most of the 1x6). The house is 8/12 run is around 9 1/2 Ft. Deck is 66"(same as widest point of the cricket), rise to peak is approx 25", run I am not sure how to calculate run on Portico(is that sad or what?) 8" posts are set to be centered on 48"(so they will span 44-52" out of 60") meaning approx. 8" extension beyond post to front edge of deck. decking is all pre-cut, biscuit cut, penofined and ready to lay in the next day or so.....
I gotta go back to look at the picture again, but I must be missing something here. 25" rise over a 9'6" run works out to about a 3/12 pitch is all, and I thought I saw some sort of soffit projection - maybe that was just optical illusion and gutter.
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I see now - the freize board on the wall is the 1x10 and the gutter is making the shadow I see.The rise of the small roof plane over the door is what might be rising about 25"
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I think closer to 20-22, as the 8/12 just came to the top of it and the 9/12 got me out of the cricket, there was one course of shingle exposure difference between the 8/12 and 9/12 as to where the ridge will land. I will try to load a couple more pics so that you can get a better overall view of the house and how it sets. I really think the Portico will look just fine and that you will agree once you see the pics....
Piffin here are a couple of pics with a wider view of the house, let me know if I have reduced them to much.... Thanks again...
Referring to photo 072, Piffin's porch concept would fit very nicely, particularly if the arched garage door openings could be repeated between the supporting columns, both in front and on the end.
What a gorgeous piece of property!
You have your mind set on a portico, which I would too if I'd already made the foundation for it. If it were me in that setting I'd shoot for an Arts and Crafts feel with stone or clinker brick at the base of squared columns - sorry I don't know the architectural terms. I'd echo the curve of the garage door in the framing, something like this:
http://architecture.about.com/od/artsandcrafts/ig/Craftsman-Houses/craftsman1070053.htm
Of course you are scaling it way down based on the size of the foundation you've laid for the steps.
Edited 6/4/2009 12:43 pm by aimless
good ones and I can see why you want to stay with the portico I have some ideas floating around still , but too tired to focus tonight now. Another hard day behind me
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Glad these helped, where r u @ iun ME, we have a second home in Belgrade Lakes... just bought this house we are discussing last year and moved down to NH. So far we have retolled the entire interior and as you can see, I am starting on the exterior....
Thanks again, I look forwardto your input...
I'm on islesboro. Have been to Belgrade Lakes area a few times.Mike Maines who has responded in this thread grew up over in China lake area, and is in portland now.I'm on the way to the ferry now....
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After seeing the wide-angle view, I can see where a portico would look good. I'd bring it out as a porch roof so the exterior skin of the house isn't quite so taut, and try to get the proportions as horizontal as possible to go with the horizontal proportions of the house. The house has nice but simple details, so I wouldn't try to dress up the entry too much. Maybe some gunstock posts would be appropriate.
I used to go to camp Bomazeen on Great Pond in Belgrade--which lake is your other house on?
"Historical Comittee"
WTF? It looks like a freakin ranch. I know that most of the time those committees are on some sort of wierd drug but this really takes the cake. They want you to turn it into what, pray tell? Greek revival? Colonial?
We've got some pretty wacko hysterical societies in the SF Bay Area, but at least they don't force you to put a bunch of makeup on something to pretend it's something else.
Or did I completely miss someting earlier in the thread?
This should show more accurate to pitch and dimensions you gave.I played with a couple other ideas that ended up looking bad.The return all along the front helps with that horizontal line that Mike Maines mentioned. The shorter hip return looks too formal for this house to me.
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Piffin, So what do you think about a rounded facia(like the garage) to tie it together? Do you think this is to narrow for a barrel(soft one, not a very deep one)?
Thanks this really is helping us....
The barrel just doesn't do anything for me on this house. I don't see anything historic about thsoe garage doors either.
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I don't see anything historic about thsoe garage doors either.
You just haven't seen the 1776 Pontiac inside.
LMAO!
you missed nothing, when I started renovations, they wanted me to conform to some specific "pane" size on my windows as I replace them..... Granite lightpost, can't do that they did not have those in????? So I have learned ask for as little as possible and wait for the gistapo to come after you... Like replacing the door and Portico, I am doing this freelance(so to speak) because I am using the existing stair foundation. I am 99% positive they would frown on the front door(wood) they would want it painted or something ridiculous. I can only hae smooth front garage doors??? We will se how that battle goes, when I show them carriage doors on 1800's house is Newburyport. They mean well, but I am only beautifying my home and the need to remember the term"non-conforming".....
I like it!
View Image"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Piffin & Aimless's version with the front porch is the only one that gets my vote. Just because there's a historical district doesn't mean you can't do anything, just that it needs to be reviewed. Take some pictures of other houses around town with similar front porches and go into a historical review with some good drawings and there's a pretty good chance you would be approved. If not, they'll tell you what to change.