Possible to nail into metal studs?
billfromoregon
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I have a job where I need to install chair rail in a medical clinic that has metal stud walls. Is it possible to shoot finish nails into metal studs with a standard finish nailer? I am worried about the nails bending and marring the wood (the clinic is already operational, so the material will be pre-finished and they want no exposed fasteners). I will also use glue to hold the rail to the wall, but the nails would secure the rail till the glue sets. Thanks –
Bill
Replies
If you install it using an adhesive caulking (PL or similar), you can get away with nailing into the sheetrock only and avoiding the metal framing altogether.
Depending upon the lengths of the runs, and the size of the chair rail, I would use minimal nails shot in at opposing angles. This will hold everything tight until the adhesive cures.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
The rail is 1 x 5 cherry and some of the runs are 11' long.
Yes, if it's a typical interior wall with metal studs that are 25 or 20 gauge.
A 15 or 16 gauge gun will reliably shoot into it 99% of the time with a regular nail.
Senco makes a hardened 15 gauge nail if you need it. We call them "armor piercing". They're impressive as to what they'll go thru.
I've shot trim onto a metal door buck with them! buic
Hey now! Haven't heard of those nails, & I have a huge trim-on-metal studs job coming up. I'll Google it. Thanks man!
Jer and Bill, Took a look my nails, the part # is DA 19 AIA, 1 3/4" galv. and hardened.
Be prepared for the sticker shock, $50 a box, but worth it...buic
If you do much commercial trim work at all, you need to invest:
http://www.etf-fastening.com/TOOLS/Model110.asp
If it's just one job. PL Premium, and cross nail it between the studs. /
It's not too late, it's never too late.
Thanks a bunch for the info! I'll try the armor piecing nails and see what happens.
Try this discussion, too.
http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44694
Billy
We use trim screws if it is paint grade trim. We predrill a small hole and use self-tapping trim head screws. We also use adhesive. If it is a stain grade trim we will put up a backer board first and then put on the trim with a finish gun.
James
Could you explain the backer board idea a bit - is this hidden behind the board? Thanks -Bill
It is an added piece of trim that can be the same height as the chair rail or it can be taller for added effect. For example, if the rail is oak then the piece behind the rail would be oak.
It isn't that the trim can not be shot on. But I have had the priviledge of having to fix a lot of shot on trim on metal studs. It seems to sometimes come loose at some later point in time. Also, we sometimes encounter 16 gauge studs and the nails will not penetrate.
When we metal frame we allow for wood liners around doors and windows but you still have to deal with the crown and base and chair rail.
Also, I have seen the rail pull off the wall even when it was glued and shot on. It tears the sheetrock paper. That being said, I decided to find a method to make sure the trim never moved. The trim screws have a 3/32 shank and a small head that takes a #1 square drive bit. We predrill a small hole to avoid any splitting. I think we have gotten as fast with the screws as with the guns.
James
Thanks for the info. I will have to check with the builder to find out about the studs, and will have to consider the trim screw idea. I appreciate the reply -Bill
"If it is a stain grade trim we will put up a backer board first and then put on the trim with a finish gun."
I think that's what I'm gonna have to do. The crown I'm installing on this project is ridiculously wide & heavy, and the baseboard is going to be 10" high. I will probably end up using all three methods, nail, glue & screw. I just want something to tack with initially.
On large crown we will put some blocks in the corner first. By corner I mean where the wall meets the ceiling. We will take 2x4's and glue and either nail or screw them to the corner. This becomes solid backing for the crown and gives you something to nail into. We cut them 2 feet long and leave 1 foot between them. The larger the crown the larger the blocks.
Our concern is what that crown might do 5 years down the road. We want it to be tight and not move and break the caulk joint.
Also, most walls and ceilings have some in and out or up and down. They are not perfectly flat. The trim screw will most of the time pull the trim up tight. At least, tighter than a finish nail. So sometimes we use the trim screws on wood framing just to pull the trim up tight in some places.
The point is, whatever it takes to make the job look great and last a long time. Speed is not the most important factor. Quality first, safety second and speed third.
James
"Speed is not the most important factor. Quality first, safety second and speed third."Good. That has been my approach for many years now, and I get befuddled when I am told that they don't care so much about appearance as they do a fast install. It's actually harder for me to do things quick & dirty and that has worked for and against me over the years.Anyhow, this crown is probably like none you've ever seen before. It's solid poplar, when held up as installed it comes out from the wall a full 8", and down from the ceiling about 2.5". It's a certain visual effect of when you come out more on a ceiling with moldings, the room seems much bigger. The Victorians did that a lot but with plaster.
The other half of the crown molding, in the lv rm, and dining rm, is going to be all plaster that has a Greek pattern, so I have to calculate enough waste to make the patterns meet properly on the outside corners.
It's been a while since I've installed plaster moldings, so this is going to be a bit of a challenge.
When the job is all finished, I'll post it. But yes, I intend to install backer blocks, or maybe a solid run of some sort of engineered lumber like plywood, (no movement), to the crown.
what i typically do is shoot two nails in close proximity, one directed up and one directed down. it acts like an anchor.
cross nail it into the rock with an 18GA and use PL for cement...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
15 ga. nailgun.regular 2 1/2" nails. Easily penetrates 20 ga studs.Adhesive not needed, been shooting trim on metal studs for twenty years.
mike
15 ga. nailgun.regular 2 1/2" nails. Easily penetrates 20 ga studs.Adhesive not needed...
And everything stays put?
I envision the nails being worked free from the metal framing due to the simple seasonal expansion and contraction of the wood moulding over time.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Yes, quite a few years ago I would of asked the same question. The finish nail penetrates interior studs as easily as a stud.Try it,even on a scrap piece if you have doubts.I was skeptical but my boss said it'll work. He was right ,as usual.
As far as seasonal changes,moldings,base etc is dry to begin with. How much can a length of 7 1/2" base shrink or grow in a season? I used 7 1/2" as an example as it probably would be the largest width of trim boards in an average house.
I'll guess that the width doesn't change enough to measure with a tape, the length less than that.Not scientific, but an educated guess.
mike
Edited 10/17/2008 8:38 pm ET by mike4244