Could anyone tell me what the real cost differences are in post & beam with SIP’s versus stick built are. I know that the frame and SIPs go up in record time compared to traditional methods but at what cost? This of course is assuming that all interior finish stays as close as possible to one another.
Let’s just compare watertight to watertight shell, with windows, and roofing system. No siding or finish to drywall.
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Replies
How do you make that assumption? The interior of the P&B has exposed beams that are normally treated differently than the smooth plaster finish of the falt walls in a stick built.
my experience is that the electrical and plumbing will run you a third again as much in a P&B, but sometimes far more than that.
In general, you will spend much more on materials for a P&B but less on labor, in the framing phase. After that, too many variables in an unknown design to comment on.
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Sorry, my bad for trying not to be long winded.
Take a building and convert it to P&B. When the P&B is up, you have a structure that is for the most part done for the sake of this conversation. OSB outside skin, OSB inside as required/needed, sheetrock vertical walls where needed, windows installed, and a roof shingled. As such, the insulation is complete due to the use of SIP's in the walls and roof. Sheetrock is applied but not finished on the exterior walls only and the underside of any rooms with vaulted ceilings. Leave out all interior partition walls, plumbing, elec, and HVAC for now.
I'm looking to compare a stick built to the same stage of construction. Of course there would be load bearing walls that are not needed for P&B but basically you now have a shell that is water/weather tight but does have electric in any outside wall but is insulated and rough rocked. (OSB, insul, and drywall)
I know I'm asking for something out of the norm but I'm trying to get a cost on the same building using different building methods but want to compare apples to apples. Example, I know I would have dropped ceilings to hide plumbing and not have exposed beams.
I hope I'm a little more clear now.
Robwes,
I'm building a post and beam (timberframe) and I can tell you that the electrical isn't more expensive if you have someone who wants to work on them . it's not harder at all, just differant.. little differant tools are used but that's all..
Plumbing isn't any differant in cost. Here in Minnesota we know better than put water in an outside wall and that's the only place where it's awkward to work with plumbing, is if your design calls for plumbing in an outside wall..
Sure you may get too clever and force a plumber to be creative but for every bad design there are lots of great designers.. Great ones think things like that thru in advance..
Not impossible but awkward, you really need to coordinate with your plumber in that case..
Labor using SIPs is significantly faster, numbers vary depending on the experiance the crews have but a few old dogs around here claim 40% faster.. One advantage of timberframes are that you can put up the sheetrock before the SIP's go in place thus in one sense the SIP is further ahead. That plus the speed you can put sheetock on SIP's is amazing.. never a worry about hitting a stud, anyplace you screw is just fine.
Depending on if you get a timberframe kit or scratch build your timberwork is quick to dramatically slower.
I use dried white oak beams and do all the hand work myself.. a single beam can easily take me `10 hours to plane square, cut tenions, and mortice pockets and I have all of the specialized tools that it calls for. A wall that a stick built carpenter can put up in and hour or less can easily take me a month or more..
On the other hand a crew erected a SIP timberframe near here (about 4000 sq.ft.) in two weeks from a kit. The builder had years of experiance and one helper had been with him for a while and one kid was brand new..
You'd be pretty hard pressed to build a 4000 sq.ft. stick built house around here and insulate it in less than 4 weeks... with the same crew.
I love putting windows into SIP's! Anyplace is fine, no worries about headers, cut your hole, melt out the foam for the window box and nail in the 2x's. From a blank wall to a sealed window is less than an hour and I'm 100 pounds overwieght, 56 years old and most of my life is sedentary..( a pro could do it in 1/3 to 1/4 of the time I take. If I had to put a window in a stick built house I bet it would take me at least 3 hours by the time I put all the headers etc. in and did all the needed framing etc..
Ahh! Someone who is on the same page. No offence to anyone really.
The simple things are easy. No plumbing in outside walls in Northern Maine for me. Thank you very much. I'm limiting ALL electrical work in the outside walls to the absolute bare minimum. Inside walls are a breeze. Floor outlets will work just fine along these ext. walls. Radiant floor is in light weight concrete, so I'll use suitable boxes. I'm working w/ my regular electrical contractor so that end is OK. Plumbing is easy as I'll just mix up the finish ceiling for the wet end of the second floor. I had an all wood house with no SR and it got really boring. I'm really just stuck on the shell part. How much more/less does it really cost. I just can't find the answer and I'm not "looking" for the right one. More or less works for me. I just want to know where to add or remove on my finishes is really the bottom line.
I'm getting ready to build a TF and you hear all kinds of numbers. Sorry i can't give you specifics but my guess is 20%-30% premium for the shell. Could be more.
One thing that's a big variable that you're overlooking is the timbers -- they are pretty much optional and you can spend as little/much as you want. For example you might want to compare a pure SIP house to a stick house. Just north of me (NC) 100% SIP houses are becoming quite common.
Bob C
(South Carolina)
2x to 2.5x minimum
no, i've never done post and beam
just basing pricing on discussions with people who have
please read into what frenchy has said
while he may be able to install a window in a sips wall in an hour.....
it may have taken a month to frame the wall
yes, the prefab kits go up fast, but someone still has to fit the pieces together somewhere
good luck
carpenter in transition