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So what is PL400? I’ve never heard of it.
Sounds like you just let the floor hang from the upstairs wall, I’d guess you added diagonal bracing to turn the wall into a truss. Are you a profesional enginer? if not, does your insurance agent know about this project?
Jay
Prescriptive codes don't address the connection at less common angles, so base the connection off more typical ones using bolts, structural screws, blocking, and steel tension ties.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
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. . . uhhhh
What was the question?
*
what question?
what thread are you trying to dial?
this is a riddle. how did i do it?
care to "play along"?
*Well, Alan crashed the server again with his question.C'mon Alan, you've proved the "how do you keep an idiot in suspense" axiom well enough here. Spill.
*Hi andrew d.,It doesnt really seem to me that my information is needed, at this time.Lets see if anyone else admits defeat as quickly as you.Then, maybe, I will consider the "spill".Humbly yours.
*Well, thats all I can stand. You are a tough group, all right. But you had on your side that I cant keep a secret. Especially a trade secret, it would seem.Anyhow, that 1x3 under the joists is the key. The wall recieved a 2x4 inlay so that it was 11 1/4" below the bottom of the floor joists, on the same side as the 1x3.In the plane which goes behind the 1x3, to the top of the new 2x4 inlay, I put 3/4" plywood. Then, I just kept adding thickness until I reached the other side of the wall. Once done, I covered the length of the wall with 3/4" plywood , 11 1/4" wide. And then, the 2x12x16s, one on each side, then down the post to floor and basement post.Once all the PL400 dried, I cut away the studs. The weight of everything above was distributed onto this new header.I think the inside fillers will prevent twisting. The 2x4 seem to carry most of the weight, I think.So, I "spilled".Did I do a good job?
*The kind of glue used creeps doesn't it?Post back in ten years and let me know about any any sagging.Jack : )
*Good point, AdirondackJack.I called ChemRex, the manufacturer of PL400, before I proceeded with this endeavor. It is very thrilling to talk with those glue engineers over there. And since this house has incorporated PL400 in all the new floors, with the blockings, etc., throughout the house, I have been able to get a pretty good idea how this stuff is supposed to work.When used with structure, the product must have mechanical assistance. I used #8s and #16s. Everything is stitched together rather well.Regarding the sagging. When the 2x4 was inlaid into the wall, the weight of the joists still rested upon the 1x3. This made the upper studs, from the point of just below the joists to at the bottom of the inlaid 2x4, as rigid as a cabinet face frame. The first piece of plywood placed behind the 1x3, rested upon the 2x4. The next piece of plywood connected the two. This prevented movement in the face frame like area.All the plywood in the center acts like the web.And then plywood and the 2x12x16s. All this nailed together, with the glue, restricts movement significantly.Thanks for the opportunity to address this question.
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Alan
Having read in a previous thread that you had sheathed the inside of your house with 3/4 GIS ply because it had a wiggle or two I figure there's no need for any interior load bearing, Fort Knox should be so strong, rip it all out. . . prove me wrong. LOL
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Patrick,
So is it that you think I have achieved my goal of restricted movement?
Thank you.
The house is much more peaceful with its new found strengths.
*NOTE ON PURPOSE:The purpose of this procedure was to avoid temporary bracing; the material needed to support two floors, on both sides of the beam, and the labor to do all that.The astounding great strength achieved is just added benefit.The information above was intended solely for the purpose of offering an alternative method for similar circumstances, to others.Hope this helps.
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I just happened to have printed out the threads that existed to just before Sean asked if the house fell down and I said no.
I hope this helps resolve the mystery of this riddle.
*Towards the end of "pressure plans", I wrote Steve about losing a post in edit, that had this title.Nobody responded. I threw a party and no one came!So, I thought I would turn it into a riddle.How did I do it?Here are some hints:1. Balloon Framing2. Lots of PL 4003. Wall heighth--8'4. Wall length -- 16'5. Basement girder underneath6. Second floor bedroom above7. Roof rafters end on wall, above second floor bedroom8. Concerns the ribbon, or ribband that holds the second floor.Hope I am being fair with the hints.
*andrew d. wrote:Bad omen? Let's see, Samson knocked out the pillars and the walls...Judges 16:26-30. But then they didn't have PL400 in those days.Sorry, unforgivably gratuitous pun :) But an interesting coincidence, and I'm kind of glad I wasn't there.
*alan joseph samson wrote:No, please, dont be sorry, andrew d.. I enjoyed it.Even more, I like that you had the guts to put your name to it. Who knows, maybe a literary scout might see it.However, you still havent answered the riddle.Please do.
*Thor wrote:OK. I'll play along. Can you confirm the following re: your hints? Would the title "How I Removed a Structural Wall Without Bracing or Support" be more accurate if you added "from below"? And should "permanently" or "temporarily" be inserted between "I" and "Removed"?
*alan joseph samson wrote:Thor,Thanks for "playing along".This is a true story riddle.No more hints, now, just clearification...The house is a 1920 Colonial Craftsman. In plan, about 30' x 30'. Height - 30' to ridge at sides.The front roof rafters rest on foundation. But the back rafters downloaded to posts 10' within the back wall. In other words, from the front of the house, in plan, go back 12' to ridge, another 12' to where the back rafters rested.At the first floor, is where the wall separated a dining room and mud room. Over this mud room, a 3' garrison overhang, so that, at the second floor bedroom, just above the dining room, was a sitting room a little wider that the mud room underneath.The wall too which I refer is the wall that ran from the girder in the basement through the second floor bedroom and held up the roof. The sitting room used to have a shed-type, very low slope, roof, if that matters.The floor joists for the second floor bedroom and sitting room (which were the ceiling joist for the dining room and mud room) rested on a 1x3 cleat that was layed in across the wall so that the joists were perpendicular to the wall and this 1x3 ribband.Thats it for now.
*NOTE TO WEBMASTER:The last post was made at 4:35pm, though it indicates 4:16.Please be very careful rectifying this problem, should you decide to.alan
*You know Alan, the server has twice tried to delete your riddle -- aren't you tempting fate with a 3d try. Also, I doubt Sean reads every post -- he's a Jolt Cola fueled server-crashing techno-nerd -- no time reading about building houses out of trees.I can't even begin to guess the answer without a sketch. This sounds a lot like those word problems I hated in math so much.
*Hi andrew d.,So if that wasnt Sean , then who was it from TAUNTON that asked me if the house fell down?Regarding the wall:It was on the first floor between the dining room and the mud room. Call that a vertical line.Perpendicular to that is the ceiling joists. The ends of the joists for each room start at the vertical wall. One side to the garrison overhang for the sitting room over the mud room. One side to the interior of the house for the bedroom floor and dining room ceiling. Call that a horizontal line.The joists were nailed into the sides of the vertical studs. (still are. darn, theres another hint!)To support the ceiling joists, a 1x3 was inlaid into the vertical line, just below the ceiling joists.It was balloon framing.How did I do it?If a sketch is needed, and someone knows how to inlay a sketch on this board, I will draft it. But no pictures of the finished beam until the riddle is solved.
*So what is PL400? I've never heard of it.Sounds like you just let the floor hang from the upstairs wall, I'd guess you added diagonal bracing to turn the wall into a truss. Are you a profesional enginer? if not, does your insurance agent know about this project?Jay
*Hi Jay,PL400 is the structural adhesive some of us use to glue down plywood to the flooring joists. It has a myriad other uses; wherever one might want to bridge gaps with great strength.On your saying the floor just hangs...I dont think that is possible, really. Well, not for any great length of time anyhow. But you are thinking about it. That is good.I am not a professional engineer. I am a carpenter. The best that I can do as a carpenter, toward any notion of engineering, is to get the "Well-Connected Structure" catalog from Simpson Strong-Tie. But that has nothing to do in this regard.The insurance man was out. He saw the beam. He could not stop expressing his belief that it was the greatest thing he ever saw, or something to that effect. Hope this helps.
*Hi alan,I saw your post before the crash, just never got time to answer.Sounds like you just stripped the wall of its covering, screwed and glued sisters of 2x or plywood to both sides of the wall where the 1x was inset to support the ceiling joists (creating a box-beam of sorts), then put jack studs under each end, and cut away the remainder of the wall, leaving a protruding beam and the jacks that hold it up. Steve
*Close enough, Steve.Ahh, maybe not. I want to give it you, but I dont think I can.At the time of the wall removal at the first floor, that wall ran from basement through first and second floors, to hold up the roof rafters.I dont think your description is quite sound enough.But you got me excited over here!