Hi, I’m new here so hello everybody.
I’m planning to build a short fence and gate between my house and the neighbor’s fence. I’d like to use cedar. My question is posts. I don’t want to put the post inthe ground because they will eventually rot–especially in concrete. My goal is to have the posts last a long time and be easily replacable when they eventually do fail. Is there something I can mount permanently in concrete and attach the posts to that is strong enough to hold the fence in wind loads? Thanks.
Replies
you could use metal posts like the ones used in chain link and then box them with cedar for apperance sake
Edited 5/7/2005 2:37 pm ET by mango man
Dig a hold, fill it with concrete and a 1" diameter metal conduit or preferably rebar that sticks out 1-2 feet. Then, the tricky part - you need to drill a corresponding hole in the bottom of your post that will tightly accept the conduit/rebar. You'll need a long bit obviously, and a jig to ensure you drill the hole straight. You can modify a drill press to do it as well.
The nice thing about this setup is it's easy to change a post down the line, and you don't have to build a box post, which saves time.
Andy
Once again, frost heave on concrete is apt to push the posts out of the ground in 5-10 years.
Once again, frost heave on concrete is apt to push the posts out of the ground in 5-10 years.
Yeah, you're probably right. That's why I live in Florida! :)
There are metal (welded steel) stake-like things that you pound into the ground and then attach the posts to. They have a pocket on top that accepts a 4x4 post. This does leave the top 6" or so (the post pocket) showing.
I don't know how well they hold in the ground tough, or whether they can hold the posts rigidly.
I think they're also available in plastic, but wouldn't expect the plastic to hold up very well.
I used some of those steel post base things DanH mentioned on a short length of fence and they worked out pretty well. They've been in place for probably ten years now without any problems. I'm not sure what they're called, I just happened to find them at the lumber yard.
Where are you located? The weather and soil conditions have a major impact on life span. In can only talk about the moderate SF Bay Area climate, where a properly buried post will last 50+ years.
You are right that a post surrounded in concrete will rot faster. As the post dries it shrinks away from the concrete, creating pockets for water penetration and rot. The way I deal with that is to lay 4" of gravel in the hole, drop in the post and add another 6" or so. Then fill the rest with concrete, to slightly above grade and tapered away from the post. What little water that does get in now has a way to keep on going.
Another approach is to just tamp with dirt. That's how the phone company does it. One of my folks' fences was done that way 50 years ago and it doesn't have the slightest wiggle, and it's in heavy clay with hardpan. Of course the quality of the wood was just a little bit better than it is today :-).
It's great to get such fast replies! Thanks. I live in Chicago so the weather is none too kind to anything. While surfing the net I came across this: http://www.thesuperpost.com/default.asp. It looks interesting but may be more trouble than it is worth. At the moment I'm leaning toward hidden metal posts.
That doesn't seem to be much of an advantage over just burying the post. They expect you to use concrete (and I suspect the thing wouldn't hold up to vigorous tamping instead) and you still have the post deep in the ground, in a pocket that will hold water against the post.IIRC, many areas around Chicago have fairly peaty soil (I know in particular it was a problem for some friends who lived in Hinsdale) and the way it holds moisture plus potential frost heave create a bit more of a problem than "average" conditions. Given the frost heave, you want to avoid concrete like the plague, unless it's set in Sonotubes (and then you have to backfill with something around the Sonotube).Actually, in most soils a decent quality rot-resistant post, set on a few inches of crushed rock and then backfilled with more crushed rock will do quite well. I think that might be the right way to go in your case.
My son just finished his backyard fence and I did a 8 ft by 150 ft along side of my barn We used metal posts set in concrete and the new simpson pgd brackets to attatch to the wood, you could build a wood box around the posts if you don't like seing them. the steel will last a lot longer than wood. http://www.strongtie.com
We're in NorCal and I would second wrudiger's take. We use redwood and also go the extra step of painting/sealing the bottom of the posts with liquid epoxy (http://www.rotdoctor.com) to a couple of inches above grade.
I keep trying to convince a customer to use plastic lumber. I found some at http://www.plasticboards.com by Bedford Technologies. I had them send me a sample of both kinds. The Fiberforce was incredibly stiff. But 3.5"x3.5" is about $6/ft, not including shipping! That's more than double redwood out here. But they're UV stabilized and you have to believe they'll never rot. I'm going to use it on my fence someday.
Also comes in colors. Most are hokey, but I've used a different, more flexible type of plastic lumber before and its dark brown/black color made a great contrast to the redwood slats, even after they've weathered.
I use a product called Superpost @ http://www.thesuperpost.com They really work well. It is a plastic sleeve with a watertight gasket to prevent water, and bugs from eating your posts. They are easily removable.
I came across this and thought of this thread
http://www.fenceonline.com/pdf/PostMasterBrochure.pdf
looks pretty spiffy