*
My choice’s:
Install a power vented gas unit in the crawl space where it’s between the kitchen and bath or,
put a standard gravity type heater in the cellar. The cellar installation adds about 16′ of pipe to both the bath and kitchen, but in case of power outrage, which averages one full day per year, I’d have hot water… right? Or do those pilotless ignition systems need 110AC?
In any case I’m looking for a quality water heater.
Any thoughts?
David
Use these assembly techniques when installing crown risers and molding to minimize visible gaps and nail holes.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
*
David - There are a lot of AO Smith Powershot heaters going in around here. The biggest issues seem to be: (1) As you pointed out, shutdown in a power failure - no hw (2) Condensate management in the exhaust stack and (3) Appearance of the terminal stack. In your case, the location nearest the kitchen and bath is appealing for obvious reasons.
Whats a power outrage? Is that when the utility cuts you off in the middle of the Superbowl? :)
b Been there, done that, can't remember
*Dave, something to consider about power venters is the noise. They're moving air and you know what that means. Plus, depending on the model you have, the motor can be a bit noisey. Depending on your specific situation, things can get annoying. I have one on my furnace so I'm familiar with this. Also, at least with the pilot-less systems I'm familiar with, you will need 110 to operate the heater. As Jeff noted, condensate management may be an issue. The P/V'r set up I have has been completely trouble free however with regard to this (with regard to everything else for that matter). Sam
*David,There are hot water on demand heaters available which use two 'D' cell batteries for the ignition. Available in both propane and gas. Seems to me there should be the same option available for a conventional gas water heater. That would take care of the ignition problem in a power 'outrage', but if you have to have a fan in the vent I don't see how that could be done. Except for maybe one other option you could maybe DIY... There are fans available which you set on top of a woodstove, and they run off the heat of the stove. Some kind of chemical heat-energy thing going on to produce the electricity for the fan. If you are even half-axe'd good at DIY, you should be able to make it work for you. (Running off the heat produced in the water heater, of course. If you did so, you would have to try to mount the 'chemical reactor' down as close to the combustion chamber as possible...)
*That's pretty far out Luka. But I think I'll pass.Let's talk about how much gas a standing pilot burns and whether it's heating the water. This is your basic water heater, no frills and relatively inexpensive. Water heaters always go out, and usually around the warranty date.The noise factor mentioned, and the power outage problem have turned me away from the power vented units. I figure 16' of 3/4" copper might add 5 seconds, if that, to my wait at the sink. The trade off now, is the pilot burning 24/7.David
*David,You could go with a super high efficiency unit, like a Polaris. 96+%. Vent is standard ABS, no double wall chimney. You put your hand over the vent and it is just warm. 80k and 100k BTU/hr models I believe. They have a blower motor, but I don't know how far they will push. You don't need to go out the roof, a wall will do. They are pricey, but you save on fuel, as well as installation issues.G' luckAdam
*i The trade off now, is the pilot burning 24/7. I'll say it again.... If the electronic ignition, (uses 2 'D' batteries, only), is available on the 'on demand' models... it should also be available on the conventional water heater as well.No constant pilot burning, no loss of hot water when the power goes out... When you check out conventional water heaters, ask about an electronic ignition using batteries...
*Luka:The pilot is not wasted as the heat energy is still heating the water. So when do you change the batteries? You wouldn't know they were dead until the water was cold, then changing the batteries and heating a tank of water will put that morning shower a few hours behind. Most employers will not consider that a good excuse for your tardyness. My decision was to use a pilot burning direct vent hot water heater. No electricity needed and quiet operation. And I can have hot water in a power outage. A generator can supply a well pump but would be hard pressed to run an electric hot water heater.Frank
*Good point Adam. I believe you can also install a direct vent model that has a double wall pipe set up that both ventsi and brings in fresh air for combustion (combustion chamber is sealed). These have no blower so they will operate without a 110 hookup. Sam
*David Giuliani made a valid point earlier. The power vented gas water heaters that use outside air for combustion are very expensive ($800-$900), yet their tanks are no better nor warranted to last any longer than tanks on the least expensive water heaters. In other words, there isn't an economic value to them. They may have a necessity value, that is, the unavailability of a satisfactory flue for a conventional gas heater. As Frank DuVal's comment, my smoke detector beeps when the battery gets low. I imagine this type of warning system could be built into an electronic ignition system as well.
*You can get aftermarket ignitors that run on batteries. I've installed a couple. They beep like a smoke detector to tell you the battery is getting low. And, changing batteries is no worse than lighting pilots. At least a dead battery never filled a basement with gas.
*The Polaris can use a concentric PVC vent, can be vented up to 140', draws less than 5 amps at 110V., SS tank and flue w/10yr warranty. You could power it with a couple of car batteries and an inverter for quite a while depending on how often it runs.Jerry