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Discussion Forum

Pre-hung door quality

Pierre1 | Posted in General Discussion on December 13, 2004 06:52am

Was installing a pre-hung interior door by ‘PremDoor’ and found that the hinge mortises were off by 1/8″. I had to shift one leaf down 1/8″ to get the door onto the jamb. Is is customary for cheap door and jamb sets to have their hinge gains in the wrong place?

Of course, this was a bottom-of-the-line model – made with glint – but honestly, cheap materials should not necessarily mean inaccurate hinge gains… All PremDoor gotta do is set their da*n jigs right.

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  1. PhillGiles | Dec 13, 2004 07:00am | #1

    I'm thinking, that by definition, this wasn't really a pre-hung door (i.e. because you couldn't hang it). This was one that you have to put the jamb together yourself, right ? The only thing that comes to mind, is that the Premdoors aren't actually synmetrical, so you have to check that the jambs haven't been flipped. end-for-end.

    .
    Phill Giles
    The Unionville Woodwright
    Unionville, Ontario
    1. Pierre1 | Dec 13, 2004 07:18am | #3

      Right: the whole door kit is assembled from parts supplied, rather than pre-hung like an exterior door.

      I assumed it was symetrical. The door is drilled half-way between top and bottom, so that it works either RH or LH pull. The door's hinge gains are cut the same distance from top and bottom, and the same distance top to bottom on the hinge jamb. Flipping end for end should make no diff. Per the instructions, not in practice, as I found out.

      The same company's pre-hung exterior doors have their hinges factory installed. Last one I did had the hinge screws going in at odd angles, making the door hinge bound from the get-go. I had to pull half the screws, fill the holes, re-drill centered holes. $300 POS door.

      1. PhillGiles | Dec 13, 2004 07:44am | #6

        Well, you should find that the latch side is drilled on both sides, but that if you flip it end-for-end, it'll be out by about 6"..
        Phill Giles
        The Unionville Woodwright
        Unionville, Ontario

        1. Pierre1 | Dec 13, 2004 08:01am | #9

          Now you've got me really looking forward to tomorrow!

  2. RalphWicklund | Dec 13, 2004 07:04am | #2

    How did you manage that? Prehung door means that the slab is already mounted in the jamb. Both leafs of each hinge set already installed in matching mortices and pinned together. At least, that's how my Premdor stuff comes.

     

    1. Pierre1 | Dec 13, 2004 07:19am | #4

      Thanks Ralph. Please see my answer to Phill.

      1. RalphWicklund | Dec 13, 2004 07:40am | #5

        I think that's why I like to hang my own doors. The last two times I had doors made at a local door shop the hinges were off. The first one had the jamb mortices a full 3/8" out, which caused the hinge side of the door to be that far from the stop. The second time, the center and bottom hinge were correct but the top hinge was 3/16" out. Made for an interesting looking  hanging. Prehungs do save some time but definitely cause headaches and delays when they're not right.

        1. Pierre1 | Dec 13, 2004 08:06am | #10

          I prefer hanging my own too. Old recycled doors, worn with use, panels showing crackled layers of paint. Very much in demand in funky remodel situations. It is satisfying to bring these oldies back into the swing of things.

  3. MrBlister | Dec 13, 2004 07:49am | #7

    Installed a Exterior Premdoor recently bought at the HD,  The hole in the butt of the door for the bolt was misaligned with the pre-drilled hole in the jamb by 1/2" vertically.  I only noticed it until I had installed the door.   I complained to HD, who put me on to the Manufacturer.  Mf told me that they had a run of these misalignments that eluded their quality control. Mf. offered me a $75.oo rebate for my aggrevation.  This was 2 weeks ago, but I have not seen the check yet. 

     

    BigEr

    Thornbury, ON

    1. PhillGiles | Dec 13, 2004 07:59am | #8

      Made in Quebec ?.
      Phill Giles
      The Unionville Woodwright
      Unionville, Ontario

      1. MrBlister | Dec 13, 2004 03:34pm | #11

        51403.9 in reply to 51403.8 

        Phil,

        "Made in Quebec ?"

        I believe it was, not that it should matter.

        BigEr

        1. PhillGiles | Dec 13, 2004 08:59pm | #16

          Sure it does, the Quebec-made ones are usually bang-on for sizing..
          Phill Giles
          The Unionville Woodwright
          Unionville, Ontario

  4. User avater
    BossHog | Dec 13, 2004 04:09pm | #12

    Like Ralph Wicklund, I've never seen a pre-hung door that wasn't already assembled.

    Is this a regional thing, or just something one manufacturer does?

    A thing is not necessarily true because badly uttered, nor false because spoken magnificently [St. Augustine]
    1. PhillGiles | Dec 13, 2004 09:02pm | #17

      I'm guessing that hese are "easy fit", not pre-hung. The easy-fit doors have pre-cut/morticed jambs, but you have to put them together..
      Phill Giles
      The Unionville Woodwright
      Unionville, Ontario

      1. Pierre1 | Dec 14, 2004 04:17am | #20

        Yep, this Premdoor product is described as a "reversible Fast-Fit door unit", by Masonite International  Corporation. Some assembly req'd.  Obviously, relocating one hinge leaf is not an unsurmountable problem - but an un-necessary one given modern manufacturing and QC processes.  ;)

        1. TrimButcher | Dec 14, 2004 06:51pm | #26

           but an un-necessary one given modern manufacturing and QC processes.

          Originally I read the QC as "Quebec"...puts quite the humourous spin on your "french" door...

          Regards,

          Tim Ruttan

        2. PhillGiles | Dec 26, 2004 10:45am | #27

          As an odd coincidence, Masonite (a multi-national company headquartered in the Toronto area) and owner of the Premdoor (Premdor ?) brand has 75 plants in 16 countries and is in KKR's sights for a multi-billion dollar take-over bid..
          Phill Giles
          The Unionville Woodwright
          Unionville, Ontario

          1. Pierre1 | Dec 26, 2004 08:17pm | #33

            KKR?

          2. PhillGiles | Dec 27, 2004 08:02pm | #34

            Kohlberg, Kravis, Roberts, & Company. They leverage huge amounts of money into more money. They've bid $3.1B for Masonite. In the press release, it says that Masonite makes 120,000 doors a day ! Ever read "Barbarians at the Gate" ?.
            Phill Giles
            The Unionville Woodwright
            Unionville, Ontario

          3. Pierre1 | Dec 27, 2004 08:20pm | #35

            Sorry, I don't get the cultural reference....

            But I know that if Masonite manufactured this 'Gate' we should be worried.

          4. PhillGiles | Dec 27, 2004 11:03pm | #36

            Not to add too much detail: Barbarians at the Gate is a well-written account of financial intrigue in America..
            Phill Giles
            The Unionville Woodwright
            Unionville, Ontario

    2. DThompson | Dec 14, 2004 06:21am | #23

      I am just hanging a bunch of Candem doors with that nice single large arch on top and the single square panel on the bottom and they are all knocked down. I have not seen pre-assembled doors for a long time. Could be shipping, everything arrives in a flat package. The only beef I have is that sometimes, for shipping purposes, staples are used to attach the jamb material to the cardboard wrapping. These staples damage the finish and can be really tough to get out of the MDF.

      1. PhillGiles | Dec 14, 2004 08:45am | #24

        Have you tried filling the staple holes with glue using a larger bore hypodermic needle ? Stops the nick from puckering up when you paint it.
        Phill Giles
        The Unionville Woodwright
        Unionville, Ontario

        1. DThompson | Dec 14, 2004 05:54pm | #25

          Thanks Phil, I will try that. DWT

    3. Pierre1 | Dec 26, 2004 08:09pm | #31

      I missnamed the product - rather than prehung, I should have described it as a door and jamb kit.

  5. DonK | Dec 13, 2004 08:05pm | #13

    Now we have something else to watch for... I bought six doors - prehungs and plain - at HD over a long period. All were wood, six panel. First one held up pretty good. The next one blew apart alongside two panels after it was hung. Yes, it was primed top, bottom and all sides, before painting. The door expanded at least 3/16ths in the middle and it won't close. I also took two two footers and had to cut them down in width. I needed to take about 3/8" off each side. (Framed for sliders, then the wife decided they should open out.) What do I see after I make the first cut? 1/4" veneer on the outside that looked pretty, and some of the knottiest, ugliest firewood that I've looked at in a long time, buried inside. These things weren't cheap doors either. The door that spread was a 36" that ran about $150. I can only imagine what a door made with "real wood" costs. I'm tired of arguing with suppliers, but I know there's going to be a fight.  Don

    1. masterofnon1 | Dec 13, 2004 08:14pm | #14

      I have been planning to build my own home for some time.  Still not off the ground.  Still looking for the dream site, and in the mean time studing, learning, and shopping around.

      Stories like this are not helpful. LOL.  It is a door for the Lord's sake!  Veeners?  Don't shut?  Wrong hinges?   Can't anything go right in this building process?

      No, I don't expect things to go smoothly.  I have finished enough basements, replumbed enough bathrooms, etc. to not expect that, but a door?

      1. DonK | Dec 13, 2004 08:49pm | #15

        I worked with my Dad for years. He was an old timer, went back to the days when they worked a whole house with handsaws. He was also a thick headed Scotsman. I saw him once when an architect recomended a LAMBEAM, and he wanted to use solid lumber. I thought he was going to throw the guy off the second floor. (The architect won - his name was on the plans.) Dad said he had seen plenty of 2x10 and 2x12 solid lumber, he didn't have to worry about the fact that there was "only" a 20 year guarantee like the LAMBEAM. At the time, I thought he was just being stubborn. Now I'm understanding a wee bit better. What did Mark Twain say, "I was amazed how much my father learned as I got older."?? I used to listen to him tell the guys in the lumber yard that he used better lumber for firewood. Now I find myself saying the same thing. The moral of the story, do your homework and try to stay happy when you get scr*w*d anyway.  Don

        1. masterofnon1 | Dec 13, 2004 09:43pm | #18

          Hammerlaw, stay happy?  You are right.  However, it is one thing to replace twenty doors after ten years, even if they should be good for 200 years.  Still another thing to say, "Gee that 24 foot glulam in the greatroom is failing, I guess we better get that fix . . . ha ha . .  ha ha".

      2. DonK | Dec 13, 2004 11:10pm | #19

        Out of curiosity, what and where are you planning to build? Where are you located now? You say you've been working towards this for a while - how do you wait with the prices of land and lumber going up the way they are? You need an expandable line of credit from week to week the way they keep going. I'm on Long Island on the East Coast, and I think there's been 150% price inflation on homes over the last 4-5 years. Then there's the regulators - want a permit? Wait six weeks, if you are lucky. Want a variance? Wait twelve months or more. A buddy of mine went to the Building Dept. and overheard a clerk on the phone arguing with an obviously aggravated constituant. She hung up the phone, looked at another clerk and said - "That man demanded that I do this immediately. Well, too bad for him, the file just got lost!" Then, she opened her desk drawer and threw the file inside it. I wonder how long he waited... Our tax dollars at work. Don

        1. masterofnon1 | Dec 14, 2004 04:17am | #21

          Pacific Northwest.  Yes, prices are rising and so is the value of my current home.  Is it a push?  Maybe not but it helps.  The price for the land or lot is more the issue.  I believe lumber etal are commodities, and commodity prices do not rise uncontroled forever unless you are in an out of control inflation period.  A number of factors have contributed to the recent rapid rise in building material prices, but they have run there course and in many cases reversed themselves recently.

    2. Pierre1 | Dec 26, 2004 08:04pm | #30

      "...and some of the knottiest, ugliest firewood that I've looked at in a long time, buried inside."   LOL

  6. MSA1 | Dec 14, 2004 04:42am | #22

    Whenever I install a prehung door it looks like the factory threw a router at it as opposed to actually using a jig. Leafs are nowhere near flush always over sunk or proud. Also theres no better treat than to install a door with a twisted jamb board.

    I love prehung doors.

  7. JerBear | Dec 26, 2004 04:41pm | #28

    There are prehung doors that can be good but others that give the experiences described here in this thread.  Given my preference I go with hanging my own.  If you get a good system down, and have the right tools like a hinge cutting template and a door hangers bench it really doesn't take that much longer, and you know that it's done right.

  8. Piffin | Dec 26, 2004 06:18pm | #29

    Whaddya expect from a guy working for seven bucks an hour?

    ;)

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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    Excellence is its own reward!

    1. Pierre1 | Dec 26, 2004 08:14pm | #32

      Not so much the $7 guy as his $70k manager. I'd like to see the whole Masonite crew try and hang their own doors - that'd learn them the importance of QC (quality ctrl).

      By the way, I made it all work out in the end, with the latch lining up without any further mods.

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