Just curious because we just joined the BBB. We now have another thing to talk about.
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what's a presentation book?
is it like this?
View Image
I guess so. Is that the cover of yours?
yeah, you mean a photo book of jobs completed, right? this is mine
http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/671968View Image
I just wanted to have a discussion about the various items that are present in the presentation books.
Ours are pretty basic. We don't really need much but the few things are powerful. The BBB membership is just something that has become pretty important because of storm chasers, and the fear of storm chasers.
so... a presentation book means the things you show to prospective clients, to build confidence at the point of sale?
Like, do you bring a copy of your contractor's license? I hadn't thought about it before, but that would be kinda cool, in the sense that an unlicensed guy could't do it, and it looks official, which it is. And I've had clients ask for proof of insurance, which I just have my w/c and liability fax it to them, but it might be kind of cool to bring a copy to the sales table
I considered BBB, but then they started harassing me with constant phone calls / sales pitch, and they lost me. I don't like being pressured.
I could actually put copies of all that stuff in my hardcover book, hmmm, maybe I'll do that!View Image
Jim-Are storm chasers kinda like ambulance chasers?
you know, you've give me some food for thought. If you brought a copy of your insurances, you could explain how the h.o. is protected from certain things because of your being insured. Educate them. Each page could be a cue for certain information, as you turn the page, the presentation flows. Seems do-able, even for a non-salesman like myself.
Do you just sit down at their place and go over this stuff, or what?View Image
Kenhill, stormchasers are companies/crews who specialize in going where the storms have hit, in a way, yes...ambulance chasers. It doesn't sound easy building a large company of stormchasers. I just heard of a company that immediately sent 90 salespeople into Denver for the recent hailstorm.
Huck, we do sit down after measuring/evaluating each roof and "go over stuff". In fact, if we can't have the time budgeted to sit down, we won't set the appointment.
We don't do a page by page presentation though. There are two dozen pages in the presentation book and we regurlarly use 6 of them. The book has some technical stuff, some awards etc.
The presentation is your time to tell the customer why they should use your services. You get to tell them exactly why you are the best value. After that, you tell them the price.
Not everyone wants to look at a long serices of photos. We've never shown any except what is in the camera. We take photos of their roof and sometimes show a picc or two.
blue,
I don't have a presentation book---
I do generally give prospective customers what I call an "information packet" the information packet is alarge envelope with company logo and contains: copy of workers comp. cert.,copy of liability insurance cert.,copies of the magazine articles I had published,several material brochures and occasioanly a relevant material sample--like an unusaual drip edge color---or a gutter hidden hanger bracket-----and of course my proposalI try to keep things low key-------and I hand the items to the prospect one by one---or I show them to them and gently stack them on top of the envelope one by one---- I lead off with the workers comp and liability insurance certs.----using that opportunity to ENCOURAGE the prospect to get several estimates------ but"please for your own safety don't let any contractor work on your home untill you have copies of these two important papers"--------the magazine articles I encourage them to read thoroughly as ,in their whole, they are a pretty adequate tutorial on basic roofing procedures and how" I "do business-----and I offer to answer any and all questions they might have after they read the articles----the material brochures(usually two)---allow me to compare an contrast.the BBB form----sure include it. I used to be a member---but I volunmtarily left after I caught the BBB in several lies and I decided that I was more reputable than the BBB ( you do know that the salesman trying to sign you up with the BBB is working on commission,right?----- spring of 2008 I did a roof for a lady who used to work for the BBB----she told me that they are basically a boiler room operation)stephen
I wasn't sold on the BBB by any salesperson. I sought them out and signed up. The area here is inundated with out of towners and the locals seem to think that the BBB will be their protection from them. So, if we are findable in the BBB, we are "local".
We think it's a shakedown too but we've lost several sales and each time the buyers (we had signed contracts), decided to rescind and each of them said "we couldn't find your company on the BBB website".
Very good system Stephen. I like the low key approach too. Occasionally, we meet Mr Boisterous and I shift into that mode though too. Usually, it's better to bring the tone down though when the conversation shifts back to the roof.
I've been thinking about a package to leave with the prospects. We've been coming up against the "i hand pound" sellers and we'd probably put something in that explaining why it's better to use pneumatics, among other things.
"I did a roof for a lady who used to work for the BBB----she told me that they are basically a boiler room operation"Joe Stoddard over at JLC's computer solutions has a thread going about Angies list uncovering a lot of fraudulent claims and dirty laundry there too. It sounds like just another shakedown.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
angies list---
i have told this story several times here----- but basically when they entered the akron market--- the way they compiled their "LIST"--was they opened the yellowpages and pulled contractors names out of it----- I know--because they told me that's how MY name got placed on it originally. then---they turn around and sell access to their LIST to the unsuspecting consumer------ selling phonme numbers they simply pulled out of the yellow pages????---that don't smell right to me.stephen
Around here, when the storm chasers hit town, they buy up some little rinky dink roofing company that's been a member of the BBB for a while and has a Yellow Pages ad.
When the storm repair was in full swing, you could tell who the storm chasers were by the big BBB stickers on their trucks.
I'm not a member and I won't join. I have a complaint against me and can't get it resolved. Customer won't let me in the house to see where the chimney is still leaking after we reflashed it. After dissassembling the flashing immediately after a rain twice and finding no signs of moisture, I talked to the neighbor. Neighbor said she was there the night before when it was raining and the water was running out of the fireplace. I climbed back up on top of the chimney and looked down with a flashlight and I could see the gas logs in the fireplace. No cap, no damper, open to the sky. Informed BBB. They say homeowner has to release complaint. She won't do it because "her chimney still leaks and she doesn't want to hear my excuses, she just wants it fixed". I fixed the leak that was damaging the plaster, I just can't stop the water from coming down an open chimney.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
I've heard some amazing stories about how much money those "rinky dinks" get bought out for.
Thats funny about the storm chasers having the BBB logos. I know why they are doing it though. I know we lost at least one because we weren't members. I think we might have lost another too and there's no telling how many we lost and didn't know about it.
Regarding that complaint by the lady. I wonder if a letter from an attorney could force her to stop slandering you?
Grant,
I am kind of suprised to here you can't get a complaint "resolved "through the BBB.
Here-- it would be a pretty simple matter---- I think I have had to do it 3 times in 21 years. 1)customer complains to me directly about something beyond the scope of our contract--or for whatever reason the issue can't be resolved
2)customer complains to the BBB
3)BBB sends me a letter detailing the customers complaint( which I already know about)
4) I send a letter back to the BBB containing our contract and describe exactly what I have already done to attempt to resolve the issue---generally detailing WHY it is not really our problem---perhaps it's a siding issue and we were there to do the roof etc.( include pictures)
5)-- that's the last we ever hear from the BBB----and the BBB will list you for 3 years as "responsive to consumer omplaints"---after 3 years you go back to " this company has no complaints"
Bump.
Im guessing that because of the lack of participation, very few business folks in here even bother to put together a presentation book. If that is the case, I must warn yall that you are missing many, many sales because you don't have one. I know...that used to be me!
Everybody's bailing.
Along with my Commercial and Residential builders licenses, and my insurance certificates, I include a reference sheet with names, numbers and a brief description of what we did. I tell prospective clients I will not work for them if they don't call at least two of the ten on the list. Anyone on the list raves about us. The best marketing money can't buy is a thrilled client who will miss us when we are gone.I have a lot of 5x7 pictures, but any new ones I print will be 8x10. They seem to have more impact. Before and after photos seem to elicit the most oooohs and aaaahs.Constructing in metric...
every inch of the way.
Jim ,
My presentation book is life size all over the city . Clients have already seen my work so theres no need to show them pictures.
Walter
I like both ideas, thanks.
How many 8x10's do you carry?
We use about 20 pictures. We do a wide variety of jobs. The book also helps in the initial design phase. We can show them what we are capable of, not just tell them what we can do. A picture is worth...Constructing in metric...
every inch of the way.
I've been taking a lot of pictures of each roof: befores and afters. There's really nothing too glamorous about any of them though. I might have to go up in a bucket but there aren't any in the residential neighborhoods we are working in and I'd hate to put out the money to rent one.
I'm just thinking out loud here, but don't your customers buy "solutions" rather than glamour, for the most part? I think that is something Stephen H. has been saying for years.Anyways, why not take a picture of a nasty piece of step flashing, or low nails, or a punky fascia board, or whatever it is that you are selling solutions to. Paired with a pic of how to do it right, I think you may have just what people would need to see.It's not sexy, but most roof replacement jobs aren't either.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
It's not sexy, but most roof replacement jobs aren't either.
I've been making 'em sexy for nearly 25 years.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Yeah, but what percentage of the population can or wants to afford a cu roof?1%?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
but what percentage of the population can or wants to afford a cu roof?
Don't know, but it's enough.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
jim... our presentation book goes back 30 years
one thing that you might like... especially as a roofer..
Don Bosquet... a RI cartoonist.. ( "quahogs" )... got into taking pics with remote controlled model airplanes....
http://www.bousquetaerials.com/
a "birds eye view" is pretty spectacular...
i tried to hire him to do our house when we put it on the market a couple years ago... but the large oak trees all around it scared him off
i bet someone near you has a similar set up...
it's pretty slick... should be a lucrative sideline ... and the equipment would all be deductible
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 7/3/2009 12:59 pm ET by MikeSmith
Good idea Mike. I'll keep my eyes open.
apparently they also have helium balloon set-ups (tethered ).... but that has a different set of problems
i bet someone is doing it in your area and you might pay say $100 / house shootMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
$100 doesn't sound bad at all. I'd expect to pay a professional at least that if they walked from next door. I really like the idea of a bird's eye. I'll have any opportunity new week to do two houses which are next door to each other and I might get some shots that I like from that.
I forgot to comment on your book, which goes back 30 years. I've got pictures too that go back that long and I might dig them out and see how I can incorporate them into my personal book.
One of the things I like about the roofing biz is that the presentation is so focused and predictable. I also like that the objections are predictable and the answers are easily remembered.
i've got pictures of me and Marianne when she was a baby...then her graduating from hs...
at one presentation , the wife says...
"That's Marianne Smith !".... "my daughter graduated with Marianne... and my son took her to the Junior Prom"...then she ran off and got the prom picMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
did you get the job?View Image
i got the design contract.... their 22 x 40 garage had burned down... they wanted a 24 x 40 ....2-story
underinsured... my design didn't get builtMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Jim, it's not that we don't bother. We design/build fairly good sized remodels and new custom homes. We have various portfolio books in our office, but don't make a point of bringing them on sales calls. We have a website with a lot of photos on it, which a majority of our new potential clients have already seen before they call us. We occasionally will give someone a blank copy of our contract if they ask for it.
As a rule though, we have found that people don't want to see what we've done for other people. They want to see what we can do for them. The company's been around for 25 years and presents a professional image. I don't think any client has ever asked whether we have insurance or not. We have lists of references that we tailor to the particular client, if they want them. Not just the good references, but ones for jobs that are similar. If someone is looking for a $25K bathroom they don't want to see a bunch of million dollar homes. If someone wants a million dollar home we don't want to show them a bunch of bathrooms.
We can morph into just about anything and offer very personalized service. When a vendor comes to our office I want to see some professionally prepared information. When I go to my lawyer or accountant I want them to talk to me face to face. We are presenting ourselves in the vein of other professionals.
As you may recall, I don't own the company, but I'm involved enough and have argued for using a presentation book long enough that I now understand why we don't.
We have a website with a lot of photos on it, which a majority of our new potential clients have already seen before they call us.
I have found this also, with most of the better jobs I've gotten in the past two years. They've been to my website, and are already pretty familiar with what I offer, my company philosophy, track record, etc.
It's not uncommon to respond to a job inquiry, and see one of my web pages printed out on their counter.
I do get a lot of "time-waster" calls, but I'm not sure a different presentation would turn them into a good job - might just be better off without them, since they usually don't appear to ever have been serious about hiring me - just looking for someone to do some free homework for them.View Image
Good stuff Mike, thanks.
Now, to answer the original question: My websites are my presentation book and I'm like Walter, I've been at it in this market for a long time. I can stand on most streets and point out a couple of jobs I've done.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
"I've been at it in this market for a long time. I can stand on most streets and point out a couple of jobs I've done.
That is a great advantage.
I bought an iPod touch. I have photos of my work on it. It shows nice. I probably need to put something together that I can leave with clients.
Nows probably a great time since I run out of work in about a week.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Jim,
Here is my portfolio:
http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/knottree/portfolio/?albumview=slideshow
Huck, your picture portfolio is very impressive. I'm sure you can pull up something for anyone if you have that portfolio available and that is a valuable tool.
Do you start out with a different presentation book, then use the pictures to refine the scope and design? Or, do you just rely on the pictures?
Hi Jim,BTW, I'm not Huck (he is a better businessman than me).I have that slideshow in my iPod Touch... don't have a presentation book. Just that.Brian
I'm not Huck (he is a better businessman than me).
uh, oh, you're in trouble if that's the case!View Image
Well Huck, You seem to have the website, and other professional presentation stuff. I've never followed through with most of that stuff (though I've been planning on it for years).I have a passion for the work, but I'm pretty lame at the business side. I should probably be an employee of someone who has their act together... but I value my independence.
"I have a passion for the work, but I'm pretty lame at the business side. "
I believe that would be the rule, rather than the exception, in the carpentry field. Somewhere in that statement, is an opportunity for someone that was smart enough to solve that problem.
Fortunately I am staying busy. If my schedule develops any holes I have a studio apartment I am renovating and will rent out (my second rental). If I get both of those rented, I should have the freedom to devote more time to the business side of the business. That is the plan, anyway.I mentioned in a thread about a month ago, that I had about 67,000 views of my photos at Photobucket in just a couple of months. I should be able to turn that into revenue too (both from pay per click advertisers and from gaining more opportunities to work for new clients).I also have 3 more magazines now interested in having me write for them, now that they have seen my stuff in FHB. That should help too.Up 'til now I have just made enough to pay the bills, but I am doing things to turn my business into a really profitable enterprise. It is a slow process for me and honestly a struggle... paperwork drives my crazy. In the next few years I hope to turn the corner and have a serious business running.
"
In the next few years I hope to turn the corner and have a serious business running.
"
That was a very interesting post. YOu opened by saying you were busy yet only paying the bills. You ended by projecting into the future and having a serious business running. I'm taking out of that that you intend to have a different business running.
The other streams of income will certainly help smooth the peak and valleys.
In recent years I have reinvested in my business as I geared up to be effective as a trim sub for new construction. I was the "go-to guy" for high end work here. This past year new work has ground to a halt here, as elsewhere.My setup was efficient for big, new work jobs... not so much for little remodel jobs. I'm having to rethink my tooling and methods and relearning estimating too. Not the best scenario for making money.During this slowdown I have been getting more shop work and commercial jobs too... I'm new to both of those worlds too. Going from a residential trim sub to wearing all these other hats has been a challenge. I'm slogging along and trying to get more of the work that is profitable. It is an interesting market for most of us... lots of us just glad to be paying the bills.Yesterday I cleaned out the work trailer and this afternoon I'm gonna get it organized for the week ahead. Also get to invoice the job I finished on Friday. That job was for high end trim for a builder I had not worked for before (Victorian remodel--3 piece, built-up crown, etc.). Looks like I will get more work from this guy too. That is a hopeful thing.
That explanation gives me a pretty good snapshot of your business model. I was riding on that same train and when the bottom dropped out of the new work market, I thought I was prepared to quickly enter the remodeling (retail) arena. Looking back, I now know that I was sadly mistaken.
Now that you are entering the retail market, you should really re-evaluate your entire marketing and sales methods. Its important to stack the deck in your favor every time you sit in front of a client. If selling isn't your strength, I'd suggest hiring a salesperson. Let them mark your services up to pay their salary.
I did confuse you two. Sorry.
That ipod is a powerful tool , your projects would sell me if I had the money.
Over the years, I have not been such an advocate of a formal presentation book (pitch book) but I'm now a full fledged convert. Ironically, we sometimes (most of the time) only have the book open for less than a minute tops. We don't bore anyone going page by page but the key info (awards, certs, etc.) that we pull out of it is very powerful. I'm positive that it boosts our closing by a significant precentage.
I think my aversion to pitch books origninated with my aversion to selling. In my earlier years, I hated thinking about myself as being a salesperson. It also didn't help that I spent a few decades selling my services as a wholesaler (subcontracting custom frames). I don't know how any pitch book would have helped in that selling environment but maybe it would have.