Replies

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Jul 04, 2004 08:58pm | #1

   no, there are not... it varies according to which lier is compiling the cost.. not only is there no standard for what is included, there is alos no standard for what  is  counted.. overall SF.... living space ... heated space... garages .. porches...

    pretty much a meaningless, misleading number...

   better to have your own measurements, divide the cost by your measurements.. and go from there

   Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   hcarnocki | Jul 05, 2004 07:00pm | #5

   thanks for your reply about the price-per-square foot, i had a feeling that it was an arbitrary number, probably subjective to whoever gave it.  i'm at the very begining stages of building a house, i don't even have a plan i want to use yet, but i've been looking like crazy.  next week i'm going to have a survey and a perk test done for a septic system.  my price-per-square foot, is going to include every dime i spend on building my castle.   thanks, heather

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Jul 05, 2004 07:04pm | #6

   survey & perc-test are a good start.... if you don't have public water, make sure your well is on the prerequisite also...Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   jagwah | Jul 04, 2004 09:21pm | #2

   The only value, and then that's questionable, is an expectation of cost in remodel for me. I'll tell a client to take thier homes value deduct the property cost then divide by their square footage less the garage and porches. This somewhat gives an expected return against actual cost.

   Example: my homes value works out about $60 a square foot. But an addition I plan about 220 sq feet is going to cost me at least $18,000 that works out at $81 a foot.

   So I can expect to recoup today if I sold the house 73% of my investment. All of this somewhat misleading.

   Questions like what kind of addition might move up or down that recovery.

   The per foot value doesn't help me plan much and time will tell about my addition.When and if I ever sell my new dining room may give me a greater value.

    

3. 
   Brbconst | Jul 05, 2004 07:09am | #3

    The SQ FT prices you see are meaningless for all the reasons Mike gave you.  If you are looking at building something and are not sure of what it will cost, My suggestion would be to call a guy just like Mike in your area. Tell him what you want and he can put you in the ball park. If it's in the price range you were looking at then have at it. You may have to pay for the initial consult but at least you know where you stand.

   Oh yeah, $300 a SQ FT in N.J. might be $150 a SQ FTin Ohio.  you never know. Hell here in PA whats $200 A SQ FT in my area is $125 A SQ FT an hour away.

1. 
   gdavis62 | Jul 05, 2004 06:41pm | #4

   Let's discuss this difference in cost by where built. 

   Can we assume that 5 people working everyday, for 40 hours each week, can complete a 2500 sf house in 6 months?  If so, there 5000 manhours of labor in the package.

   Can we assume that material prices will vary insignificantly, when your "far suburban" or "rural" areas are compared to your "high priced urban" areas?  I think we can assume that, though others may differ.

   Can we assume that sub markups for materials incorporated into jobs vary little, when looking at big city guys versus outlanders?  I don't think they are too different.

   So, if the principal cause of price per square foot difference is labor, and a 2500 sf house takes 5000 hours of labor to build, then the difference in the fully burdened, selling price of labor in the two markets is divided by the factor, 2.0.

   So, if this same house, built in your $200/sf market, is done out in your $125/sf market, then that 5000 mh of labor at the price difference of $75/sf is being sold at a $37.50 per hour upcharge.

   Sounds a little high to me, that labor difference.

1. 
   Brbconst | Jul 05, 2004 07:07pm | #7

    Travel an hour in one direction from My house and a Carpenter with his own tools and truck gets $30-$35 an hour. an hour in the other direction and he gets $15 an hour or less. both as an employee The market is hot here and most stuff sells before ground breaks. Not so an hour north. 

   Hell my house has appreiciated $30k in the last 11 months.

2. 
   Piffin | Jul 05, 2004 07:20pm | #8

   You made some assumptions that I will definitely disagree with here.

   "Can we assume that material prices will vary insignificantly"

   No. Even on something as basic as lumber. out west you will find more DFir in the framing and redwood on trims. In the NE, there is more SFP for framing, and in the south it is more likely to be SYP or treated(termites) SYP. Those frame materials wil;l vary in price.

   Concrete can be had for half the price in some parts of the country as compared to others.

   I just got the plastering done for $2.25/sqft. Try that one for comparison around the country

   When you are closer to the factory you can get certain materials cheaper than in most other parts of the country except in times of shortages.

   Price cedar shingles or shakes around the country and watch the price vary according to shipping distance.

   Now then-

   "Can we assume that sub markups for materials incorporated into jobs vary little"

   No

   because as discussions here have made clear in the past, there are localities where the local culture places a lot of small subs incompetition so tight that the markup is non-existant while in other places they are all over-worked and wise enough to have learned that risk taking requires profits.

   Another thing that causes labor and sub costs of markup to vary is the proximity to housing. Vacation areas that are enjoying a building boom and real-estate escalation have little housing for workers so they must be imported and provided for. Labor charged to customers in Telluride. CO can be 2-3 times as much as in some other towns within a seventy mile radius where the workers live to cover the transportation cost.

   Then too-

   I think som,e of the difference in comparing sq ft costs can be in local standards. in one place a foundation may normally be slab ob grade, easily prepared, and in another, blasting to rock is more common with a full basement required.

   Some locales will be tolerant of wall-wall carpeting while in others, hardwood floors and Granite or tile are the minimum standard.

   Look at the diff between vinyl siding and Hardiboard or cedar shingles for local standards.

    

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   gdavis62 | Jul 05, 2004 07:43pm | #9

   I think I'll start a new thread and ask for some key unit material costs, just to see how much things can differ by region.

2. 
   migraine | Jul 05, 2004 11:16pm | #10

   When you are closer to the factory you can get certain materials cheaper than in most other parts of the country except in times of shortages.

   Even, at times, this is not true.

   I live in the Pacific Northwest, which is alder country.  Most places sell it around here for $4.50-$8 per board foot, in California(1250 miles south of here) it is going for around $2.25-$2.75 board foot.  The same goes for hardwood veneered plywood.  Usually $5-10 per sheet cheaper down in SoCal.

   Now where I live, labor rates are less, but material costs are 15-25% higher than in Olympia, Wash

1. 
   Piffin | Jul 06, 2004 12:40am | #11

   I agree, not always.

   But often.

   We lived near an LP plant in Colorado and could get it about 20% cheaper right at the plant. 85% if you took their seconds and rejects.

   but we could get pine boards from Canada cheaper in CO than I can right here in Maine where it also grows. Too many other tax, political, and marketing variables - not just shipping costs.

   Since almost no hardwoods grew in CO anything in oak, cherry, etc was always a "special order" but if you have noticed what frenchy pays for black walnut... 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

4. 
   opsahl | Jul 06, 2004 12:53am | #12

   Heather,

   Greetings, I'm a design / builder in S.C.  The cost / s.f. varies depending on the type house you want built and the location in the city. For instance i just finished a 5,000 s.f. house on lake Murray which appraise for $1,050,000 .

   Answering your question, In this area the cost / S.f. is based on heated space. Garage/decks/porches (all unheated, unfinished) spaces are not included. The cost includes all components of the property ie. land, sewer, landscaping etc.,

   Keep in mind that the s.f. cost can be deceiving. for instance the house i mentioned above includes 1,500 s.f. of covered / uncovered deck, oversized 3 car garage, Second floor deck overlooking the lake, etc. which inflates the overall cost / s.f.

   Sometimes the owner will own the property, so my s.f. cost doesn't include the property. It's all semantics. We still need to factor in the land cost so that we know the final cost will not be over what the market will bring. Don't want to built a $300,000 house in a $200,000 neighborhood.

   Hope this helps,

   Eric Opsahl

1. 
   Piffin | Jul 06, 2004 01:33am | #13

   It sure confused the snot out of me. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

5. 
   toolshedj | Jul 06, 2004 03:22am | #14

   I don't know how many people have asked me, "how much per square foot?". I always figure materials and labor plus profit and overhead. If you figure heated square footage, on a pretty basic house, ( usually 3 bedroom, 2 bath, with a 2 car garage) around here, they've been figuring 65 to 70 dollars. But it just depends on how fancy or how plain.