I’ve been called upon a few times to patch holes in old ceilings. Quite frankly, I feel that the quotes I give are “expensive” in the context of a simple hole in the ceiling but fair in the context of the time required for the repair.
For instance, I just quoted a previous customer $950 to repair his ceiling in his breakfast nook. there is maybe a 16″ X 16″ hole where the plaster had separated from the lath from an old water leak.
The drive is 20-30 minutes each way to his home.
My thinking is that I will make one trip to remove loose stuff and apply rough coat of Structolite. Second trip for finish coats of plaster and sanding. then a third trip for final sanding, light touchup if needed and then re-painting of entire ceiling (8X8).
While he tells me that he loves my work, he also says that he can get a number of other guys to patch the ceiling for 250-300 and be done in a day.
Is my pricing and timeline to complete way out of norm?
Edited 1/17/2007 4:16 pm ET by PeteDraganic
Replies
Price is fair for 3 trips of 1/2 days work each, unfortunatly there are plenty of guys who will do it for way less, in one day using a sheetrock patch and 20 minute setting compound (though hopefully not painting). Not necessarily the best way, but thats what people want.
I agree that 950 is a little high for a 16x16 patch, but I also understand the way wall work is (multiple trips). For that patch I might charge 2/300 and use some 20 minute mix so I could cut out a couple of trips.
out of the norm or not, I don't know.
But why change, he's happy enough to pay you triple what others charge...
Expert since 10 am.
my wife's parents had some water damage (about 6 sq ft) in a second-floor hallway, thanks to a less-than-stellar re-roof by a Home Depot contractor. After going around with them for months, HD finally agreed to pay for the water damage repair. The problem was that my inlaws couldn't find anyone to give a quote for such a small job. I finally bid it and won it. $750. Is it fair/reasonable? I don't care. HD's insurance is paying for it, and if it causes HD's premium to go up, and HD raises their retail prices in turn, that will just give me one more reason to shop there.
I intentionally bid it high, because I didn't really want it, and I figured that if I was going to have to do it, I was going to get paid well...
I do these kinds of repairs all the time and it's more than I would charge. However, I may not do the same kind of repair that you do. Also, most of my work is closer than 30 minutes and I don't figure in driving time.
I would plan on 2 trips. Each trip would be 1/2 day.
Day 1: remove damaged area, shim as needed, install drywall patch, tape and spackle using 20-minute compound. While compound sets up, paint perimeter (cut in). Apply 2nd coat and skim coat entire patch (this is a "cheat" which lets me skip primer).
Day 2: light sanding and paint. If painting reveals the need for spackling touch-up, I again use 20-minute compound, wait until it sets up and paint again.
My price would be more in line with the "other" guys. If I could tell up front that 3 coats would be required, I would charge a bit more. But take note that my repair was not a "plaster" repair. I've had no problems with the technique that I described. And ceilings in particular are more forgiving if the repair doesn't have the same hardness as the original plaster.
I do lots of Holes in ceilings, but never on plaster and lathe. For a regular old foot through the ceiling it is base price $350. Insulation involved? Add $50. Paint Whole Ceiling? Add $75 (small one). There are people who work cheaper, some finish, some don't, some have strange ideas of what good work is. Mine usually disappear, some cheap ones are patched and globbed on mud. I know this because I get frequent calls to fix these too! I think you are priced right on the money for P & L. It is quiet possible that he in fact does not have anyone else to do it. Most people that I go see are happy that I showed up, nobody else will sometimes. There are cheaper people but can the HO find them?
I don't work in the building trade, my job is freelance film and TV production and I get paid by the day. When people bitch about the rate I charge, I tell them "you pay me for what I know, not what I do". I always us the example of a doctor. You walk in to a doctors office and tell him or her your elbow hurts. The doctor asks a few questions, give you a shot and you go home with a $400.00 bill. You saw that doctor for five minutes. The $400.00 dollars they charged was not for the time or what they did, but for the years of school and all the years of experience. Sure some one else may do it for less, but its your elbow.
bump
Price seems in line with time and work, but is all of the time and work necessary? At the end of the day, the customer wants a ceiling that shows no evidence of a patch. If you can save time and money using drywall as fill, and it ends up looking the same, why not quote it that way?
Using the doctor analogy, sometimes you only need an ibuprofen to make that elbow pain go away.
BTW-- You can still charge more than others because you are providing a premium service.
because a drywall patch will not look as good. old timey plaster over lath does not cut well for making a clean joint.
Then, I have to tape the joint from old to new which will increase the need for plaster and finishing leaving that area higher (lower) than the rest.
I suppose I could just give the dw patch job but I still think at least 2 visits are necessary (not counting the trip out to look at the problem).
When you're this good, EVERYONE wants a crack at you!
http://www.petedraganic.com/
If you really want this job, and decide to do it differently for less $, be clear to the client that what you'd be selling him make look similar, but it is in fact a different product, otherwise he may think you were just trying to milk him with the first quote. Some folks were just born to haggle and he sounds like one of them. You might want to remind him that a drywall patch may be the cheap way out, but over time, the patch and the surrounding plaster may expand and contract at different rates resulting in cracks in the future. Maybe they won't, but he'll have something else to consider, especially considering his last experience.
I don't think your prices are out of line.
We did three small ceiling patches this year. Size is really irrelevant to me unless it gets beyond a single sheet of sheetrock. All the patches I'm talking about where less then 2' square.
First one was sold for $1,400 the room was larger and the ceiling painting took a little longer then the following jobs. I admit this one was probably over priced
Second was $900.00 for a spot in a kitchen including paint
Third was $850.00 for a smaller hallway area that only took about an hour to set up and paint.
We did have the sheetrock completed in one day using durabond, blew the knock-down at the end of the day and painted the following.
It takes longer to set & clean up protection for surrounding surfaces and areas then it does to complete the actual work.
I agree on the setup, cleanup and takedown. A lot of messing around for a short time of work.
I'd say our prices are very much similar and I've sold these same jobs for the smae price over the years. but I was thinking lately that maybe I was just lucky those times..... this guy says the patch can be done for a couple hundred (200-300). That is a far cry from my price.
If you recall, I rebuilt his porch floor that also serves to cover a portion of his basement. This was after he had someone else fix it first... for cheap.... and mess it all up.
He says he had spent about 4000 collectively to dry out that area of the basement with no success... now that the floor was done properly by me, no more problems and the room is dry and usable. He had some water proofing attempts and other tactics tried previously.
Maybe that number included the 1500 I charged him to rebuild the porch floor with mahogany.
Anyhow, my long-winded point is that he has already seen how much is wasted by hioring the "cheap" guy... but wants to do it some more. Maybe he figures this ceiling patch isn't as important or complicated as the water and porch issue was.
When you're this good, EVERYONE wants a crack at you!
http://www.petedraganic.com/
You get a bunch more than I do. Im impressed anyone can pull that kind of money.
My hat is off to you. If I felt like I could charge that much Id still be doing it for the public every day .
I dont patch with plaster though and would charge more if I did .
Im the old sheetrock doctor here in this town. I specialized in it where you dont .
I would be gone on in 4 hrs [if it was smooth] and I would never leave the job .
Most of it is the materials I carry that others dont . I preorder the special materials I need and stock them.
What you are talking about is a business all its own and I specialized it . Although not many do it for a business . Mebbe a specialist has bid it too. I wouldnt worry about it if you can get those prices . Good for you . You do other things any way.
Tim
the other side to this coin is that if I am going to run a business, I have to earn enough to make it worthwhile... otherwise I could get rid of all the headaches and liability and work for someone else.
Too many guys forget this when they get to underbidding jobs.
There is no reason that some of the talented guys here should be just getting by financially. That is a travesty.
Brisket Bean, who I think is an artist of a carpenter with absolutely amazing talent, made a comment earlier in his ceiling thread about not having enough mnoney to seek a patent he was intersted in. I thought to myself what a shame that was that one of the most gifted amongst us should still want for finances.
Mike Smith and I had diunner a few months ago now. He and I were discussing a jopb I was on and how I really wasn't making all that much money considering the time I would have to invest in it. I said that I worry that I'd be charging tooo much but he told me that it only seems like too much to me because I wouldn't pay those prices but that there was no reason for me to sell my knowledge and expertise for bargain prices. That conversation has changed the way I look at a lot of stuff in business now.
When you're this good, EVERYONE wants a crack at you!
http://www.petedraganic.com/
Two of the above jobs we did last year for previous customers, the other was for a good reference from our plumber, so the sale wasn't a hard one for any of them.
That said I work for a fair sized remodeling company, as such there is more overhead to cover then a one man band. I can tell you our sheetrock guy would charge us about 300 to do the work and then leave it un-painted, a painter would probably be around 150-200 if the people went out and hired it out, what they don't get is the level of protection, clean up, or service we provide.
We get the occasional call for such jobs from new prospects, After explaining our process and what we would do, I'll drop a rough price on them, eliminates a lot of the tire kickers..
pete,
Just to add something. If you now agree to charge him less, he will assume(whether he says so or not) that you are overcharging on all future jobs, and that all of your bids are negotiable. Not the position you want to be in.Expert since 10 am.
Repair it with drywall, use setting compound or DuraBond, cannot take more than 3 hours. Take a heat gun with you and dry the compounds real fast. If you have to spot paint, add $40.00, if you have to paint the entire ceiling add $130.00.
I'll fly there for that money..geez, greedy Republicans always want more $$$ ;-)