Hey There!
A question…do my estimating methods make sense to anyone else?
I’m trying to price a drywall job. I really need the work, but I’m damned if I’ll rip myself off. On the other hand, I think the homeowner is a great guy, and very fair, and I don’t want to rip him off either.
On my own, I’ve come up with 3 methods;
1) based on the # of hours it took me alone to hang and tape ~25 sheets of 4’x8′ on a previous job(about 8 hours). Using this method, the 100 sheet job I’m estimating would take 32 hours to hang and tape. It’s been my well-documented observation that hanging takes about 1/6th of the overall time of a hanging-and-taping job. ergo, 32 hours (for 2 of the 6 steps) gives me an overall time of 96 hours. Multiplying by a hoped-for gross of $25/ hr gives a price of $2400. This does not take into account that the job I’m pricing right now has a large number of 10′ and 12′ sheets.
2) a method of square-foot pricing used by my mentor (<25 sheets= a small job, charge $3.00 per sq ft; 25-40 sheets= a medium job, charge 2.00/sq ft and > 40 sheets = a big job, charge 1.00/ sq ft.) The square foot total on this job (and I’m being quite close on the square footage, but not sutracting for doors and windows)comes to 3,472 sq ft. My mentor’s method makes this a $3,472 job. Thing I can’t remember is wether or not he included material in that. Note that he took a bath on a number of drywall jobs, and is no longer in the business, so I’d like to take his method with a grain of salt.
3)or, based on how long I think it takes me to hang a single sheet: 1 4′ x 8′ sheet takes 10 minutes to cut, tack and screw off. Based on this method 10 minutesx100 sheets =1,000 minutes. Hanging I equate to 1/6th of a hanging and taping job, ergo the 100 sheet job should take me 6,ooo minutes (although I’ve made adjustments, such as 15 minutes for a cut-up ten-footer, etc., so I’m not giving y’all the exact numbers). 6,000 minutes divided by 60 minutes per hour gives 100 hours. Follow? Now, in this case, the numbers crunch out that I should take about 120 hours. If I multiply 120 hours times the per hour rate I think I need to charge just to stay in business (25/ hour, gross), I get $3,000, just for labor. Since this is a fixed-price job, I want to tack on something for the fear factor- I want some padding in case I underestimate my time. One retired contractor I knew told me 30%. Is that fair to the client? 30% of $3,000 = $1,000, making this a $4,000-for-labor drywall job. Seems like a ton of money to me, but I’ve not made more than a marginal living the last ten years.
4) Comparing methods 3) and 4) are about $500 apart. How about a compromise between the two dollar amounts? $3,750?
What gets me is that I just read in Myron Ferguson’s book that he assumes hanging a 12′ x 12′ room in an hour. Thus, he’s hanging 528 sq. ft. per hour! In other words, he’s saying he’s doing in 40 hours what I’m estimating at somewhere between 104 and 120 hours. He may be fast, but the fastest, best hanger I know is almost exactly 2.5 times my speed. He also charges (when working hourly), up to 50 an hour.
Am I nuts? What’s going on here? Am I just the slowest slug on the planet? Is Mr. Ferguson miles off base? Please give my your opinions,
Gerard
Replies
Two old rockers I know, were known for hanging 40-45 sheets of 4x12 in an 8 hr day. Best I've been able to do, with one awesome helper was about 32 sheets of 4x12. Lots of variables: is the frame true, big or small rooms, vaulted or high ceilings, odd angles, etc. I generally figure on 25 sheets of 4x12 for a day, for two men. This is usually easily accomplished. As for finishing, I consider myself too slow to do anything bigger than some patching. Sometimes I'll do a bathroom, if my favorite sub can't meet my job schedule. We figure about $0.60 a sf of board for finishing, on average conditions. Hope this is of some use.
Brudoggie
Who the hell is Myron Ferguson and if he's not hanging in your neighborhood as the competition, who cares how much drywall he "says" he can hang in an hour?! Charge what YOU feel is fair and what you think the customer will pay...
I just hanged (hung?...whatever) 45 sheets and taped, sanded and textured them in about a week and a day. Sure, someone could have done it faster but it looks really good, the customer is ecstatic and I got my price for it.
If all jobs could be this easy...
Mike
I think you were replying to Cariboumann. I don't know who this Ferguson is either..
Yep, you're right. I'm just used to hitting "Reply" and don't always look who its going to. Sorry for the mixup.
Maybe Myron himself will straighten us out???
Mike
Brudoggie,
Thanks for the reply. It does help. I'll re-crunch the numbers using your figures and see how it comes out. I talked to an estimator for a commerical builder today, and he said most of the bids come in very close to $1.00 / sq ft, including material. Seems a little nuts that the per hour rate would not go up as the number of sheets goes down, I think it has to for anyone to stay in business.
Again, thanks,
Caribouman
Just for the record, 30% of $3,000 is $900. And that is about the extent of my knowledge on the subject! Good posts above I think.
Rich Beckman
I agree with Mike's answer. I think it was Dick, on another forum, who once said someting to the effect that "competitive pricing is the threshold of bankrupcy. "
I agree. Screw the competitors and get your price for your time frame. The reason is that otherwise you have declared yourself t a "commodity", like 6-32, 3/4 pan head screws - all the same so buy the cheapest quote.
Do you think of yourself as a "commodity?"
I spend a lot of time and money on golf,I'm not as good as most but I spend the time and money. If hanging and finishing sheetrock is how you entertain yourself, if your family can enjoy it more than food and etc., have at it.
If not figure a price you feel comfortable with and bid the job. Track your time and materials and you will know what to charge next time.
Good luck
Charlie
hi,
you have received some sage advice. charge what you worth. don,t worry about the competition. i figure, that here is my price, and i can make a profit on the job. why should i work and loose money when i can stay home and not loose money. remember you are not going to get all of the jobs. by the way i would charge 4,000.00 for the job, providing it is not all cut up. and high ceiling.
Thanks Tank.
That's exactly where I came out on the dollar amount. No, it's not too cut up, the ceilings are low, and it seems like we'll be able to boom the stuff in. I like your point: Stay home and not lose money. I have a part-time job I can go do for a non-profit whose checks won't bounce, so I don't even have to stay home. I can go to work, have an income, and not really worry one way or the other.
All my best, Caribouman