I’ll admit I’m no expert at painting, in fact not much of an “expert” in anything but certainly more accomplished with some tasks and trades than others.
I’m in the process of painting about 550 linear feet of exterior trim. Rakes, facia, freize, crown, etc. I have read a number of the threads on preferences and recommendations on paints. I have decided to prime with Sherwin WIlliams A100 acrylic latex primer and finish with a coat of SW Superpaint in the semi-gloss finish. The trim is a combination of Azek and MDO soffits.
Sat & Sun here in Northern NJ werw about as good as it gets for painting in my experience; 70-75 degrees, low humidity, and I painted only on the shady sides early in the AM and late in the afternoon.
Here’s the problem, even with Floetrol added to the paint, there are many brush marks that are clearly visible and the results certainly do not do the effort justice. As I said in the beginning, I’m not an expert, but I have painted before, and I’m just not thrilled with the results. I’m hoping for some advice or tips for improving the results. It seems that even when I applied a generous amout of finish paint and limited the number of brush strokes feathering back into the “wet edge”, the paint just dried too fast to level out. I miss the slow smooth leveling that oil based paints provided. Isn’t there any latex that comes close to this or a method or paint that can simulate those results?
I’ll be visiting with the SW dealer tomorrow for some additional input, but I wanted to solicit some help from our colleagues here at BT University!
Replies
Darin, I am not a professional painter. I had same problems as you have, solved it by buying Purdy brushes. It was amazing to me what a quality brush will do. I bought a set of three at home depot. I used a 100% acrylic latex on the trim. Hope I helped some.
mike
If it's on the ground, and I'm not using the sprayer I roll the flat stuff such as soffit and facia.
no pro painter here, but it works for me.
Quality of the brush was my first thought too. I use Purdeys. You can't do a ten dollar jopb with a two dollar brush.
But Latex paints are notorious for this problem.
BTW, I hope you touched the Azec with some sandpaper first. That slick surface on the new is it's own release agent, for all practical intents and purposes.
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where ...
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I'm using Purdy and/or Wooster brushes, top of the line, since I only want to do this once.
I did lightly sand the Azek after filling nail holes and at the seams, but still found that a coat of good quality 100% acrylic latex primer worked the best even though Azek and Sherwin Williams both told me that I did not need to prime first. Funny how every time I've been told that about something I was about to paint, I found out the opposite was true. Yes you probably do not need to prime, but the outcome was 100% better when you do, not to mention that the finish coat was 1000 times easier to apply!
Thanks for your comments, I guess I was hoping for a silver bullet........nah......its not that bad!
Not to ask an obvious question, but, if you 'miss the slow, smooth levelling that oil-based paints provided', then why are you using latex paint on this stuff in the first place? Especially in an exterior application? Is there a particular reason you chose not to use an alkyd-based paint for this job?
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Latex is what the experts recommend for the Azek - not that that means anything, but I would tend to bet that oil would release from it quicker.
I saw a small sample that hada been painted with and without sanding, with and without primer, with latex or with oil.
The adhereance was best with sanded, primered, and latex
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm doing an exterior paint job right now, and--HO's choice--it's all latex acrylic paint for the trim work. Velvet and semi-gloss finishes (Mrs. HO hates high-gloss finishes). Brushmark city--but I warned 'em in advance, and they signed the work order. Not my problem.
I find latex paints only do a decent job when rollered or sprayed. No way I can spray the trim, and it's not worth the trouble to get out that fancy set of 'detail' rollers somebody gave me fer Christmas a few eons ago. Don't even remember where in the shop I chucked 'em, now that I think about it.
Gonna paint the rake with a 3x5 pad painter on an 12' extension pole. Now that's gonna be fun. Kinda like signing your name using the Canadian Arm on the Space Shuttle....Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
my guess is that your brush marks are telgraphing from the primer. The superpaint ive used needed no floetrol.
Well, this is not mean to be harsh but my guess is that you are being too slow or too picky. Watch a pro painter sometime and you will see how quickly they go, there is no looking back and very little thought about brushing back or smoothing out; they just go forward. This is hard advice, because your first thought is to eliminate the brush marks, but in my experience what ocasional painters do is worry too much about the marks and spend more time back brushing, and w/ latex every back stroke runs the risk of leaving brush marks. Keep a wet edge and try to fly, brush marks be damned
Watching my neighbours paint, and probably seeing how I would have gone about it not so very long ago, another common error seems to be to let the brush get so loaded with hard paint so that it no longer flexes. I think this happens because the "painter" doesn't move enough of the paint from the brush to the surface as they are painting..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Or don't "empty" the brush every once in a while while working. People who never paint will have paint running down the handle and down their arm all day long.
Rick, Thanks for the tips. I think I follow pretty close to the technique that you described, I'll definitely give your suggestions a try. I do try to empty the brush out once in a while, but not before that first run reaches my elbow to remind me what I forgot since the last time I was on the business end of a brush.
Since I don't paint all the time, I think it takes a little while to get back the touch. I did talk to the SW dealer that I use and he is going to come by tomorrow to look at the jobsite and let me know what he thinks. I know I could buy paint for less at a big box, but I would not get customer service like that!
If you go as far to the right as the paint will take you, you will end up emptying the brush pretty well; if you are dripping, and if the edge doesn't naturally feather out, chances are you are not. Lay the paint, hit the wet edge, then go until the paint runs out. Repeat. And, as mentioned above, realize you should pretty much always use 2 coats of finish, particularly if you aren't so good at it (it will also make u relax on that first coat). Enjoy!
I don't think anything has been said re: # of coatings and colors
arte you using white primer and then trying to cover with one coat; looking back thinking that spot could use a little more oh and that one
accepting any paint needs two coats and moving quickly could improve your results???
I suspect you are right Rick, but I will tell you that after some practice, I have been moving along at a reasonably fast pace, load the brush, tip it off, paint about 2-3 feet of trim, back brushing the last few strokes into the wet edge, and then moving on. I think it took me longer to describe it than it does to do it and still the results are so so. I am only painting the rakes in one pass, then go back and paint the soffits, and finally the frieze and crown on the last pass just so the paint doesn't dry before I finish one length.
I know I am being too picky since everyone that has looked at it so far except for one contractor that is self-confessed more anal than me, has told me so. I think the latex just dries before it has time to level out and the slight variations that you get appear as brush marks. Maybe I am not describing it correctly since there are clearly brush marks, but also a noticeable difference in sheen or gloss at certain angles. I am considering using a less glossy finish, to help. On my way to SW dealer to discuss the problem and his suggestions!
I know some paints flow and level better than others and I know there are better painters, I was just looking for some help to do a better job, since I always learn new things, techniques, or better ideas here at breaktime. I know ignorance is bliss, but I'd rather be miserable trying to get better each and every day!
ok, this may be nit-picking, or not even how most do it, but you said that this is you: load the paint, then paint 3-4', then back-brush into the wet edge. What I do now (I am right-handed, and I don't paint as much or as quickly as when I did it everyday) is, left to right, start almost at the wet edge, or a foot or so to the right of the previous edge, apply the paint to the right, back brush into the previous edge, then go as far forward to the right as the new paint will allow, making sure the last stroke is ragged, feathered out and not abrupt (I am sure you know that part). My point is to hit the previous wet edge as soon as possible, not at the end, and to add some paint to the previous edge. If that isn't what you are doing, give it a try.
My 2 cents worth... I agree with all the good brushes & good painting techniques outlined... Will prolly help some.
I tend to spray all I can too (thank god for spray shields). I like Super Paint... sprayed. For brush application, I haven't found anything to beat Ben-Moore "MooreGlo" or the satin one (fergot the name).
Another funny thing is I seem to get way more "mileage" out of Ben-Moore paints when brushing... Like when triming out a brick house (just too much chance of getting paint on the brick, roof, bushes... etc. Faster to brush than try to protect everything from overspray.
Thanks Brick!
I might take another look at Ben-Moore. I used their products when I re-painted my house about 10 years ago. I used SW on another project and found their paint was easier to pint with, just seemed to take less effort. So I switched to SW paints, besides I get great service from the local dealer.
I might give the Moore-Glo a shot though just to see if there is a diference