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production drywall tools for small jobs?

Huck | Posted in Tools for Home Building on January 4, 2006 08:58am

I do a lot of drywall patching. Occasionally, I get to bid on small drywall jobs – say a small room addition, for example. I can tape and finish with the best of ’em – meaning finished product, NOT timewise. I need to get more efficient for anything like the size of a room. So what production tools are recommended? I’ve never used a banjo – they any good? I don’t think a bazooka would be cost-efficient for the size/number of finishing jobs I get. Any other thoughts? Thanks!

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  1. JHOLE | Jan 04, 2006 04:07pm | #1

    A banjo is great for a small / medium size project. 

     You are correct that the bazooka is not cost efficient for the size of job you are talking about. 

    Everyone has there own habits / preferences for finishing but the tools that I find make it higher quality, faster, easier, and profitable are;

    1. Long handle 7" taping knife

    2. Banjo

    3. Stilts

    4. Porter Cable sander

    Do you hang board on these small / medium projects also or sub it ?

    Obviously I use more tools than these  - they are the ones I find make it profitable.

     

    Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City

    1. User avater
      Huck | Jan 05, 2006 06:54am | #15

      hmmm, stilts. Another option I haven't explored. Easy to get used to? Steep learning curve? (Yes, I generally hang these smaller jobs myself, also)

      1. efix2 | Jan 05, 2006 07:10am | #16

        FYI - You can buy a collet adapter to fit 1/8" rotozip bits in a 1/4" router, just got one today.  I don't do enough drywall to justify a Rotozip (1/8" only) but DO have a laminate trimmer I can put it on. 

      2. Stilts | Jan 05, 2006 11:48am | #18

        Stilts don't usually have too bad of a learning curve.  The two things for a beginner are to keep the floor clean, and keep to a smaller room where you can grab a ceiling or wall if you start to lose your balance a little.  If you do start losing it, all it usually takes is a hand to quickly steady yourself on anything solid and you're good to go.

         

        Not very many rockers use stilts to hang.  Too much junk on the floor, and you're constantly getting up and down to cut sheets and help lift them, etc.  They're sometimes useful to go back and screw off all sheets at once, but even then you usually have to be pretty proficient so you don't trip on scraps, or get tangled in you screw gun cord.

  2. Frankie | Jan 04, 2006 05:57pm | #2

    There are 3 components to every job - materials, tools and tradesperson. All need to be addressed.

    Materilas - Paper tape is good for inside corners and metal corner bead for outside corners, but both are time consuming. I now use the paper faced metal corner beads. there is an inside and outside version and they are available at the big boxes and builder's supply houses. Many scoff at it, but they are not paying you. Compound, apply/ set bead, clean squeeze-out and skim. 2nd round - apply skim and you are done.

    Tools - You need good quality knives: 1", 2", 3", 4", 5", 6", 10", 12". All must be sharp and dent free. I also use a special trowel, lots of flex and similar to a pool trowel. I also have a tape dispenser on my belt. It just holds tape and nothing else.

    I have taped in jeans, khakis and painter's pants. Painter's pants wins every time.

    Ladders - 4', 6', 8'. I even have a short ladder which has a shelf. It is perfect for 8' ceiling heightsand gives me a place to rest my hawk when needed.

    Hawk - Some say it is a matter of preferance reagrding the use of hawk or mud pan. I have never seen a union guy using a mud pan. It is always hawks for them. I figure they know something so I use a hawk. I find it easier to hold and more versitile anyway.

    3 Buckets and 1-2 planks - never undersetimate the value of low and cheap tech. With 3 buckets and a 2x12 plank you may be able to reach the ceiling. every time you move the plank you only need to move one (the third) bucket. The plank just slides or pivots to the next work area.

    Sand Paper - DO NOT sand between coats. Only use your knives to crape off burrs. This will also help hone your knives and maintain a sharp straight edge. On small jobs I hand sand. I find I get great results and don't have to repair scratches which adds more time. Only sand paper. Never sanding mesh.

    Sanding Poles - Unless it is a production job I never use them. Maybe I don't know how. I find the corners invariably cause a scratch which will need to be repaired, allowed to dry and then hand sanded. Time saving feature is then lost. Have't tried the Porter Cable unit. Sounds very cool but $$$ and just one more big thing to bring to a small project.

    Tradesperson - Develope a system and do not vary from it. Do one task at a time. Finish it and then change tasks. Stop thinking. Does a wide reciever think when he catches the football? No. He is too busy catching. You have to be in the zone and that won't happen if you are too busy thinking.

    Hope this helps,

    Frankie

    There he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.

    —Hunter S. Thompson
    from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas

    1. Toolsguy | Jan 04, 2006 06:33pm | #4

      Can I jump in here and ask a question? I've been rocking a room in my house. I bought a "curved trowel" to basically use as a small hawk. Not the intended purpose I know but it works.

      Whats the idea behind the curved trowel though. It has a slight bow to it. Is it to put the mud down on a seam with a bit of a hump so that when it dries and shrinks its flush? I tried using it that way and it's very difficult. Any tips?

       

      1. Frankie | Jan 04, 2006 06:48pm | #5

        Curved trowels are intended for plaster. When used properly, the arc flattens to keep the plaster buildup, at its edges, to a minimum. You may have noticed when using compound, that a 12" knife's ends tend to flex up/ away from the wall while floating over thicker areas of compound.It requires talent and a lot of skill to use one.Buy a small hawk. They also come in 8" sizes.FThere he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.—Hunter S. Thompson
        from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas

        1. User avater
          Huck | Jan 04, 2006 08:43pm | #6

          thanks all for your replies - I'm on the run this A.M., but will digest this info and possibly come back with some more ques. This is an area of my business I need to get a handle on.

        2. ChipTam | Jan 04, 2006 11:38pm | #7

          Frankie,

          It's clear from your posts that you've done a lot of drywall and probably have forgotten more than I'll ever learn.  Still, I would disagree with your comments about the curved trowel.  I think it's a great tool for that final coat of mud.  Also, I don't think it's all that difficult to learn how to use.  I've done my share of mudding over the years but I'm certainly no expert and I don't have a problem with the curved trowel.

          ChipTam

        3. Shep | Jan 05, 2006 12:10am | #8

          Frankie-

          I also have to disagree about the curved trowel. All the old-time plasters I've ever seen used straight trowels. Unfortunately, no one plasters around here anymore.

          I've used a curved trowel for joint compound for close to 30 years. Its what my dad used, i how I was taught. I don't think it's all that hard to learn, and when used properly, leaves hardly anything at the edges to sand or scrape.

          But it's a matter of what works for you-different paths to the same destination.

        4. dgbldr | Jan 05, 2006 12:29am | #9

          Ditto. Never seen a plaster guy use a curved trowel.  Only place I have seen them is to mud a drywall butt joint when it's not required to be fliush.  Yes that does take practice, but so does every trade and craft.

          DG/Builder

          1. Toolsguy | Jan 05, 2006 12:35am | #10

            So is the idea to press the curve flat when using a curved trowell? Keep the angle low to the wall as well?

          2. User avater
            EricPaulson | Jan 05, 2006 01:54am | #11

            Put the curved trowel to the wall.

            You will notice a slight gap at it's center.

            The purpose of it is to coat the paper tape during the second coat. It leaves a slight hump and coats the tape that should almost be recessed if in a taper/taper joint, or quite flate at a butt joint.

            Longer flat trowels follow to feather and spread out the joint to as wide a 36".

            Lottsa answers here.

            Eric[email protected]

             

             

            It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been

             

             

             

          3. Frankie | Jan 05, 2006 02:17am | #12

            So, according to what you are writing, the curve is to create a hump in the wall - along the taping. Interesting. I have never tried to create a hump when taping. No wonder I get frustrated with this trowel every time I "try" to use it. I am doing it all wrong!That's why I stick with my VERY flay and flexible trowel for taping and skimming. When I am in the zone, I can tell that I need to sand because the wall is so smooth. I have to FEEL carefully for the skips or burrs otherwise they won't show up until I start oil priming.Oh Yeah - HUCK - When you are skimming, be sure to prime with oil/ alkyd primer! Latex or acrylic primer will just float on the compound and peel off in large sheets when dry. Been there. Done that!FrankieThere he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.—Hunter S. Thompson
            from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas

          4. User avater
            EricPaulson | Jan 05, 2006 02:58am | #13

            I don't know if I like the term "hump".

            But the tape needs to be covered with compound.

            The butthanger type thingys have become quite popular; effectively creating a taper joint at a butt seam.

            Eric[email protected]

             

             

            It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been

             

             

             

          5. Shep | Jan 05, 2006 06:02am | #14

            the curve in the trowel is, from what I understand, so that the center is a little heavier to allow for compound shrinking at the taper between sheets. A flat trowel will need more coats to build up the same.

            I (personally) can also tape butt joints better with a curved trowel. It bridges over the tape, and hides the tape more easily.

            I'm not a professional taper, but I have had a lot of experience with my curved trowels.. I'll never knock what works for someone else. If you can get a good ( or great) finish with your straight knives, more power to you. But don't discourage others from experimenting- there's not just one way to do things.

          6. Pierre1 | Jan 05, 2006 08:02am | #17

            I like the curved trowel too - 11" or so long, 4+" wide. Marshalltown. Great wooden hande. Curved in both planes too. Sweep once or twice and then move on. Have many flat knives too. Would love a 16" to 20" knife, if I could find such a beast here in the boonies.

            I used to hate D/W taping and mudding.

            So I spent 3 full days watching a team of 3 pros board and tape in a luxury home. Watching, not doing. These guys were very generous as they'd babble on about what they were doing and why. No wasted motions. They were in the zone.

            Then I went back to my own small jobs and practiced till it got easier/faster and the results better. Sanding much much less now. I now enjoy what I used to hate: I get into the motions, the feel of the mud, the sounds, the challenge.

            Maybe this new-found peace comes from knowing the end result is predictable.http://www.costofwar.com/

          7. User avater
            EricPaulson | Jan 05, 2006 02:15pm | #19

            I like the curved trowel too - 11" or so long, 4+" wide. Marshalltown. Great wooden hande. Curved in both planes too. Sweep once or twice and then move on.

            That is a platering or pool trowel.

            The curved trowel being discussed is 'bent' up towards the handle in the middle. About 3/16 maybe or less depending on how much pressure is put on it.

            I'll have to find a pic, this comes up often enough.[email protected]

             

             

            It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been

             

             

             

          8. Pierre1 | Jan 06, 2006 03:07am | #20

            This http://www.marshalltown.com/catalog/display_item.asp?edino=12612

            is the trowel I use. With it, I feel invincible because of the many ways it adapts to the task at hand.

            My next favourite is a 14" 'Richard' knife that has a very flexible ss slightly curved blade...that thing skims and floats like a cruise missile over Mesopotamia. Well, to my hand and eyes anyhow. ;)http://www.costofwar.com/

  3. WorkshopJon | Jan 04, 2006 06:10pm | #3

    Just my 2 cents, if you have to sand, use 150 grit paper against a sanding block made from 1" extruded foam board insulation.  The corners round slightly with use which is great, it's very light weight, and it's dirt cheap.

    Now you should never go into a job with the intention of sanding in the first place, but usually do anyway.

    WSJ

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