I posted the following note in December, & only received one reply:
We build really nice custom homes at the Greenbrier Resort in West Virginia. Business is picking up, & we need help. We plan to build 300 homes over the next fifteen years. The area is mountainous, beautiful, historical, & rural. The homes are designed by world class architects.
Our immediate need is for a Project Manager. The right person should be able to manage & organize the building process from beginning to end, acting as the liason between the Owner, Architect, & Subcontractors.
You may contact me at this website, or at [email protected].
The funny thing about the preceding ad is that the opportunity that is offerred is awesome.
The homes are wonderful, & the Owners we build for are for the most part very appreciative. The homes are not typical vacation homes- they range in price from $550K to upwards of many millions. One of a kind homes.
The problem we have is that the work force is extremely shallow, hence the need to post this ad.
We still need another project manager.
Please contact me at the above email addresses, or at 304-536-7769.
If you know of a possible candidate, we would be pleased to pay a generous finder’s fee.
Thanks,
Kim Fischer
Replies
I don't see anything in your message to indicate that the opportunity that is offerred is awesome. I do see indications that you're expecting people to work for scenery and history instead of money.
If the labor force is very shallow, it's a sign from Ghod that you're not paying enough.
Uncle Dunc,
It's too bad that you have nothing better to do than to make smartass comebacks to serious issues. In response to your comments, I offer the following:
1) The "ad" as you call it certainly does not explain all reasons for the opportunity being awesome. I'm a project manager myself. My talents lie building, not in painting a glowing picture of the opportunity presented.
2) Money is an important part of any job. But circumstances & opportunity are equally important. At least to me. If anyone out there is only interested in the money, then please do not respond.
3) The entire compensation package is comparable to other areas of the country. The scenary & history benefits are just bonuses.
4) The shallow work force is an indication of the rural nature of this area, & has no connection at all with the amount of pay. There is simply not enough population here to support the work we have.
5) Please use spell check when you refer to "God". It is not spelled "Ghod".
Thanks,
Kim Fischer
>> ... smartass comebacks to serious issues.
Since you took the trouble to respond, I'll assume you found my arguments serious enough to require a response, and used "smartass" simply as a term of abuse.
>> The "ad" as you call it ...
What else should I call it. If you're advertising for a project manager, it's an ad.
>> ... certainly does not explain all reasons for the opportunity being awesome.
It doesn't explain ANY reasons for the opportunity being awesome.
>> ... not in painting a glowing picture of the opportunity presented.
A glowing picture would be a lot to ask for. I'd settle for a picture of something identifiable. I don't see any opportunity at all in your description, good, bad, or indifferent.
>> Money is an important part of any job. But circumstances & opportunity are
>> equally important.
The flood of responses you got clearly indicates how many people agree with you.
>> The entire compensation package is comparable to other areas of the country.
I doubt it, but if it's true, you might have gotten more responses by saying that up front.
>> There is simply not enough population here to support the work we have.
That's true, and in the midst of record high unemployment nationwide, the fact that no one will move there to work for you, or even inquire about working for you, means you're not offering enough money, or opportunity, or circumstances, or history, or scenery, or something. Probably money.
>> Please use spell check when you refer to "God". It is not spelled "Ghod".
Please don't correct my spelling. I didn't spell it that way by accident. And even if I had, your own spelling isn't good enough to justify you criticizing mine.
MR.Uncle Dunc,
I would like to comment on your response to KIM in regards to her placing an "ad" on this web page.
I am sorry you felt the need to ridicule her on posting the Project Manager position with her firm, I personally thought the existance of this forum was to help one and other out when we had a QUESTION OR PROBLEM. It is a safe assumption you don't feel the same way. If you would please refrain yourself from the better than you attiude you might find the world could be on your side. I know, I didn't vote you the spoke person for jobless. Someone living in small town USA, might just, just might , have you, see the posting and reply. If I was not employed already It could be a good lead or if luck would have it fifteen years good. Are you the type of man that would discourge a fellow man for bettering his life in spite of the views you seem to hold of yourself.?(ghod wouldn't). Or are you the man who won't work because his employer can't guarantee your position untill you retire. The trades are a crap shoot, you do your best and work hard and hope your employer pays you on time and dosen't file Chapter 7. (the stories exist). Why do yourself a good deed and aplologize to KIM WHEN YOU CAN GO TO BED THINKING I ONCE AGAIN PROVED TO EVERYONE READING BREAKTIME THAT I AM GHOD.
THANK -YOU DSWAYBRACE
Edited 2/13/2003 9:22:05 PM ET by GORDY
Edited 2/13/2003 9:26:37 PM ET by GORDY
>> I would like to comment on your response to KIM in regards to her ...
Why do assume that KIM is a her? I've known more guys named Kim than I have known women project managers for construction management companies.
>> ... placing an "ad" on this web page.
Why "ad" in quotes? Like I asked Kim. It's a message in a help wanted folder advertising for a project manager. If I shouldn't call it an ad, what should I call it. I wasn't using ad as a term of abuse, just a descriptive word. Nor did I object to the message, whatever you call it, being posted here. That's exactly what this folder is for.
>> I am sorry you felt the need to ridicule her on posting the Project Manager position ...
I went back and re-read both of my posts. I don't see anything in them that looks like ridicule. You probably think I'm ridiculing you too.
>> I personally thought the existance of this forum was to help one and other out when
>> we had a QUESTION OR PROBLEM. It is a safe assumption you don't feel the same way.
It is not a safe assumption. I post information and answer questions here when I have something to add, and it's often useful enough that I get a thank you. I'm fairly confident that my net contribution is positive.
>> Are you the type of man that would discourge a fellow man for bettering his life ...
Again, I re-read my posts and don't see anything in either of them that would discourage anyone who was interested in the job. I could argue that it was the wording of Kim's original message that discouraged anyone from responding to it. I could even argue that it was my responses, which provoked the posting of more information, that ended up attracting the potential job seekers who did finally show up.
>> Or are you the man who won't work because his employer can't guarantee your
>> position untill you retire.
I know very well there's no such guarantee. My most recent employer let me go about six weeks before filing Ch. 11.
>> I personally thought the existance of this forum was to help one and other out ...
I agree. So who exactly are you helping out by dedicating your very first post to beating me up for two posts that were, at worst, misdemeanors?
Edited 2/14/2003 12:26:17 AM ET by Uncle Dunc
Sorry to hear that candidates wanting 'only money' will be excluded.
I'm completely qualified, but, sadly, I WORK FOR MONEY.
Geez, your offer sounded attractive to me and had I been interested in moving I woulda called you. Sorry you got jumped on.
Why all the abuse fellas? Give her a chance. Kim, what does a residential project manager in WVA make and what other benefits does your company offer? A range would be fine. Let us know. Thanks.
Too bad you're not in the Midwest. I'd have a great candidate for that position. I'll pass it along anyway, but I doubt he wants to move there. Good luck. As for the other comments you've recieved, maybe you could do better by putting more bait on the hook, so to speak. More information.
Brudoggie
All,
There have been several comments concerning the compensation package & a job description. Here is my reply:
1) I will not post income ranges for everyone in the world to see as I believe these are subjects that are between the candidate & our company. I will say that our benefit package includes paid vacation & health insurance, at no deduction from the paycheck.
2) A long responsibility list, in no particular order, follows:
Please contact me if you are interested.
Thanks,
Mr. Kim Fischer
I appreciate your reluctance to post a salary number, but how about a clue? Can you tell what a lead carpenter or superintendent would expect to make in your area, and will this position probably pay a little more?
Do it right, or do it twice.
I'm not familiar with the West Virginia area and so have no idea at all what the going rate is.
You are posting in a forum that is reaching well beyond that immediate area and it is only natural for prospective employees to want to know what the range is... Do you really expect to attract quality people solely on the basis of nice big houses in a beautiful (desolate?) area?
By the way I suspect that rural W. Virginia might be well under the national average on pay rates and I'm sure I'm not alone on this assumption. If you want some good people to respond then please be a little more forthcoming.
Good Luck!
Allow me to help.
I reviewed that post and saw the bait right away...but that's another story.
Given the Handsome List responsibilities....I mean "cell phone on the hip all the time" responsibilities, and the fact you would probably trade the best, most productive years of your life working (at least thinking) with the job, I'd say you you can't pay enough. I've worked for big dollar clients on Mc Mansions...they expect a lot. So Kim is right....it's not ONLY for the money, you have to love it. After all, your gonna PAY dearly for it out of your hide. The wage should be sufficient to support a nice lifestyle for you and your family (home, car, dinner out) with EXTRA for a retirement savings plan. (for when your whooped) That said, perhaps she can reconsider her presentation.
Because in the end, if the developer is "900 Pound Gorilla Incorporated" he'll flick you off the table like yesterdays newspaper when it's over and you'll have paid him with the best years of your life.
And he'll have given you money.
Choose Wisely.
To All Interested Parties,
It seems we are all interested in discussing this job posting for different reasons. My reason, & the only one that matters to me, is to find a person who fits in with our company. While I would not mind discussing these various tangents if I had the time, the fact remains that I do not have the time. Hence the need to fill this position.
As I stated before, the range of compensation is private, & will not be discussed online. As "bait", I will say that I relocated to WV from Atlanta, & my entire compensation package exceeds the last position I held in Atlanta.
If anyone is truly interested in more information, then please contact me:
[email protected]
office #: 304-536-7769
cell #: 304-646-2947
Our present office does not always offer me the privacy to talk freely, so in those cases I will take your name & call back. We are building our new office at this time (almost ready for drywall if the snow would let us install the roof), which will provide much more private office areas.
Thanks for your time,
Kim Fischer
just wondering... if the guy does all that... what do you do, and why would he need you?
your post has to be one of the dumbest things ever typed on this forum.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I can hear her now, 'Man, am I glad none of THESE guys responded'.
I wouldn't be surprised if no one else ever posts an open position again!
Why bother with this reception.
These a-holes are way outta hand. This folder is here for good reason.
If you don't like the f'in job.....shut the F-up.
You just might be screwing the next guy that's outta work and thinks the posted position just might help feed his family.
Guess that's what ya get over the internet? Fake names and attitudes.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Well saidView ImageGo Jayhawks
I'm with Pro-Deck, Ron, Jeff, et al. There was no call for this response. Kim is not spamming, nor selling anything. (S)he's advertising a job, and in the right folder, which is more than many here can get right.
I know the area be/c my sister lives there (Lewisburg, WV). Close enough anyway. My nephews' school district is largely sponsored by the Greenbrier, which is a mega-resort. Sam Snead was the resident golf guru there till he died. I can understand the lack of workforce. When they remodeled and again when they re-roofed, they had a heck of a time getting good, local contractors. One upside (or downside, depending)...for the nearest Lowe's/HD, they have to drive over an hour to Roanoke! Not exactly the cultural mecca of the US.
I read a lot about a big CM firm where I used to live in PA. Mostly they worked on commercial projects, but they also did residential. The "we went bankrupt" thing didn't apply to them. From all accounts they did what they did and they were good at it.
Good luck, Kim. Sorry the response wasn't nicer. No excuse for it. I'll pass it on to my BIL (he works for Westvaco up there) and see if he knows anyone.
Look at your responses. We all work (most of us) to take care of our family. Money talks . . . BS walks. Without stating as least a range it says you are looking for the lowest cost labor to take care of higher cost customers. Say something that indicates differently. Look at it another way, the opportunity is so good, would you take a 15% pay cut and still do the work?
Jesus these guys are a sensitive bunch!
Kim,
I have told 2 guys about your ad. Both currently work in the Pgh area, one driving up daily from Wes' By-Ghod Verginny.
I'll ask Big Dan if he made the call...but I think Greenbrier was too far for both. Dan was gonna check a map.
Email me if you think you could make it worth Joe's while. He's making over $40K, living in a nice/mostly paid for house and is comfortable where he's at now.....but like someone already said.....money talks.
How far from Pgh are you?
I drive for money too.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Do you include a Dental Plan?
That comment really had teeth.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
The other...proper application of risk.
Kim, I am the one response that you had. When I contacted you and asked for a job description you stated that there wasn't one. My problem with that is, you say it is an awesome job but you cannot tell me what is involved. I am once again in Masontown WV working on one of my projects (a three story octagon addition to a 150 year old mill on a stream) but I would like to know what is involved in the duties and resp of the position that you are trying to fill.
Guy,
Following is a list of responsibilities, in no particular order:
bridge the gap between the Owner, Architect, & Contractor by understanding, advocating, & communicating the Owner's requirements
communicate via clearly defined goals, organized Contract Documents, & cooperation amongst the team players
manage the Project in accordance with the Budget, Schedule, & Contract Documents
support, guide, & protect the Owner's investment in agreements with contractors & vendors thruout the construction process
focus is to be a driver of the work, not a monitor
daily inspection
layout all work with onsite builder
order material
coordinate material deliveries
daily supervision of all subcontractors
inspect all phases of the work
direct the subcontractors to follow the schedule
prepare punchlist
prepare schedule
buyout log
negotiate subcontracts
setup coordination meeting with all subs prior to start
organize material purchase with respect to availability & lead time
daily interaction with onsite builder
daily issue resolution with Owner, Arch, & onsite builder
budget adherence
material selections & cost changes to Owner
prepare Owner change orders & give to OA
prepare subcontractor change orders & give to OA
update job cost reports for Owner
review, code, & approve invoices
Please contact me at:
[email protected]
304-536-7769
Sorry that I did not follow up with this last month.
Thanks,
Kim Fischer
All,
Following is some other information about the location & us:
Visit our website at http://www.scmwv.com The website is not very complete at this time, but it does show pictures of some of our completed homes.
Log onto http://www.greenbrier.com & visit the real estate section that shows the Greenbrier Sporting Club
This should provide a little more information about the opportunities we offer, & should dispel some thoughts about the remoteness of the surrounding area.
Thanks,
Kim Fischer
just looking at the links Kim provided :
this is a Construction Management firm... with no employees other than office personnel and Project Managers..
not everyone's kettle of fish....
go to Kim's company link and see....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike & All,
Yes, Mike, you are on to me. Our company is a construction management firm.
So the downside of being a project manager for a construction management firm is:
no physical work
all mental work
the business end of the work is taken care of by others, so we may focus on the unpleasant side of building, which is organizing other craftpersons to perform the work
we can focus on creative portions of the work, rather than sawdust down our shirt, or fingers freezing from sub zero winds
The upside of being a project manager for a construction management firm is:
refer to the previous list
Sarcasm aside, there really is not a lot of difference between a construction management firm & a general contractor. We both perform the same function with the same goals, & that is to provide a service to our Owners by building the best possible home for them.
Thanks,
Kim Fischer
PS: Mike: your statement about no employees other than project managers & office personnel is incorrect
Edited 2/13/2003 6:15:12 PM ET by KIMFISCH
kim.. i'm glad you like what you do...
but there is a world of difference between being a GC and being a CM... liability is the main one...
here.. most CM's are former GC's who went bankrupt and no longer have credit.. or they are GC's who found a better way to screw other contractors and subs and pass the costs on to the homeowner...
tell me one good reason a homeowner should add another layer of expense to their project
and , i'd be curious to know what other employees you have besides the PM's and the office.....?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Kim,
The job sounds like something a Good Superintendent would do. Is it really a project manager, or just another name for a Builder that has his act together. Focus on the unpleasent side of building, unpleasent to who? I think Mikes got it right, one more un-called for link in the food chain. Would like to see the part of no physical work. When we did high-end custom 30,000 sq.ft. and up you better know your project inside & out. That means checking everyones work ,be it with a tape,level or ladder. From the day they dig the foundation to the day you go to the closing table Because when things go wrong ,its the PM,Super or Builder who pays. FYI in Colorado a good Builder, Super, or Project Manger (what ever the title) Starts @$70K with full Bennys (including Dental) In muilti familiy $100K can be had. Good Luck in you search, hope you find somebody for the position.
I agree with ya 100%.
Any good super can fill the bill without any problem.
Come to think of it......that job description leaves nothing for the owner to do or know other than being there on pay day.
Gabe
Guys
I have been reading this post for awhile now.
Kim has been generous and patience with all th a-holes here. I was working in the mega city here in Canada and moved up north to a similar town as Kim mentioned. I have given up no money to move and have gained many things. I work the same number of hours for the same monety but with much less agrevasion. I have less stress and much more time to enjoy the recreational activities. We have Intrawest building a village at the ski resort. Samer situation as Kim's area. It is so welcome here to have developement and to have all the benefits that they bring with them.
I have worked all across North America and I wouldn't trade what I have now for all the glory of travelling all across North America
TO ALL MY FRIENDS,
This, most likely, shall be my last posting for this position. All of you have drained my energy. The initial "ad", to me, was no different than an "ad" placed in the classified section of a newspaper. Everyone has looked in the classified, & if interested, responded to the inquiry. The classifieds are not a place to editorialize, rebut, or even comment on. So this section of Breaktime, to me, has been a big letdown.
The upside is: I have received some very good contacts with some individuals who are well qualified. With luck, at least one of them will end up as a match. It's just been hell finding them. But then finding good people is never easy, so no complaints here.
As far as my gender, I am a "he". Not that that matters. But one person who responded left a phone number. When I called, someone else picked up the phone & rousted my candidate off a ladder. When he picked up the phone, his first comment was "you better be an awfully good looking lady to get me down off the ladder". Kind of funny, but not the best opening line for someone looking for work.
One comment was made concerning hiding behind an internet address. I have placed my phone number in previous postings, so there is no hiding with me.
So long,
Kim Fischer
are you korean?
bye, now..... i get down there mebbe we can play golf on one of sam snead's 18's ....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I guess I should have taken the job with your first posting. Sorry for all of the grief that you have gone thru. My convesation with you was great and to the point. This is a project manager, it sounds like most people confused it with a working super. I found the conpensation package reasonable, the timing is just not right. I will contact you in a few months and see if there is something still available.
Kim,
Im with Bob (prodek) on this one. If you guys arent interested then just dont respond. But to rag on someone because YOU dont like the employment opportunity that Kim is giving dont start ragging. The hostility projected here is amazing to me. Where were you guys when the cyber pimp was around gggeeeessshhh give some one a break here....
Darkworks: We fight for Peace
Kim- I can only apologize for the way these guys are jumping down your throat. You don't owe them anymore explanation than you have already given unless they contact you in person with a genuine interest concerning the position.
If they are interested you could send them a job description by mail.
I don't know what all the hostility is about on this forum lately, but there are ALOT of people wanting to jump in and criticize, cut down, and slam people that post with good intentions.
I for one don't like it. If you must act that way keep it in the Tavern.
Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Well said.
Do it right, or do it twice.
What does the postion pay?
That my friend is confidential!!!
Kim,
Are you still looking for someone? I thought of someone that may be interested in the position. Didn't want to tell him about it until I found out for sure if it is still opened.
Thanks!
Tamara