In another thread Sonny Lykos said:
“For years I’ve advised that the #1 priority for any contractor is to create a very positive WOW! brand name for his company. And for years, my advice has been ignored. My son specializes in remodeling high rise condos and often does work for their respective association. He is probably one of the most expensive remodelers in Naples. His net profit is triple our industry average. He simply cannot handle all of the incoming calls he’s getting so he has to turn them down.
Everyone tries to save a buck, whether they are a cheapo association or filthy rich, but most people will still pay a premium for top notch service and professionalism, but that professionalism must be shown, proven and exemplified in every single “contact†with the public. In fact, you must reek of professionalism if you expect to get the monies that professionals can demand.”
This DEFINITELY got my attention. OK, so let’s have some suggestions about how to attain this goal; to “reek of professionalism“.
Thanks in advance,
Replies
Here are some things I try to maintain:
Return phone calls promptly.
Short hair and recently shaven (hate that part), clean clothes.
Very clean truck with professional lettering.
No handwritten anything given to clients... everything is computer generated including addressed envelopes, mailing labels, etc. (I think this is a big one... professionals are used to seeing high quality docs in their work and a hand written one page generic proposal does not instill confidence).
Detailed proposals.
Fluent in discussing all parts of the job. Make it clear that you know exactly what is needed and how it will be done... kinda like you'd want a surgeon to be.
Anticipate things they didn't when talking about how the job will go / is going.
Keep the job clean.
And of course... do great work.
Thanks David. Great list. I'm gonna start a Word doc to organize things. I think I got most of that covered except the clean truck... Truck is new, but talk about 10# of poop in a 5# sack... no lettering, and maybe I need to shave closer to every day...
OK, so clean truck this weekend...
Here are a few of mine:
don't park in the client's driveway except if they are not home (at work). Move truck before they are expected to come home.
If there is going to be a particularly dirty job on a given day, bring an extra shirt.
No loud music when clients are home, and only slightly loud when they are not around
How about some ideas to help with the initial (prospective) client meeting?
BTW - my motivation for this whole thing is the thought that professional image and quality work go hand in hand and the combination of the 2 will help me land the kind of clients and jobs I want.
Matt
Edited 8/26/2004 10:38 pm ET by DIRISHINME
Here's one: project a professional image no matter if the client is home or not, since the neighbors are probably watching your work from over the fence.
"How about some ideas to help with the initial (prospective) client meeting?"
There was some discussion of this a while ago, maybe on JLC. Some guys talked about taking laptops to the initial meeting to show work. Others talked about taking a portfolio. Some talked about having a website. I decided to go with a portfolio that I can bring to the initial meeting (and also with a website). People may or may not ask to look at it, or you can make a point of it, but I think good photos lend credibility. Some people put letter of reference in their books also. If you don't have David Gerstel's book, get a copy and read about what he has in his portfolios.
On another tangent... apparently the two biggest complaints people have about contractors are 'he didn't do what he said he would do' and 'he left a mess'. Keeping their place clean is really appreciated. I had a recent job where I had no choice but to set up on a gravel driveway. I brought a bunch of painter's dropcloths and set those down first. Sweeping them and shaking them out after every day was a real hassle but I could tell they appreciated the fact that you could not tell I had been there. We had a house painter do out place recently and my wife noticed every blade of grass he trampled... all two of them! She hasn't ever commented on the extra crisp lines between colors that he went to great pains to cut in.
Right now I'm working at a maybe 450k house where everything is perfect. I've been cutting lumber on a tarp, at the end of the day, picking up scraps, emptying the tarp into the trash, and then sweeping up... Customer said it is not necessary, but their lawn/yard is nearly perfectly groomed - I think they were just trying to be polite.
I have a web site, but a hardcopy portfolio would probably be a good thing to give visual props while discussing design options. Matt
Every single suggestion is 100% right on. But the main point is that not one of them is any less important than another one. In other words, strictly adhere to each one - always.
I keep a Norelco cordless shaver in my truck. Recharge it about every 10 days - on my desk next to where my money, wallet and pocket stuff goes before going to bed so I don’t forget to take it the next day. I did that once, so now I own two of them. If I’m going to another job at say 3:30, I reach behind my seat, take one or two wet handi wipes (I put lemon juice in the container to cut my oil face) and wipe my face before shaving again. Hair brush kept between the seats (pick up).
One thing I learned accidentally about 35 years ago is this. Remember that to the public all contractors flap their lips which means they don’t know that to believe or not. I started giving them my Proposal by placing it in one flap of a presentation folder (NEBS) and in the other flap inside, copies of documentation which validated what I said during our earlier meeting - CREDIBILITY, and it impresses the hell out of them. The doc.s could be anything or everything, like a copy of a roof shingle lit. that states all attics must at least meat FHA attic ventilation or the shingle warranty is invalid the day they’re installed. Or mfg. installation/application instructions to show why my price is slightly higher then a competitor - I do it right - no short cuts.
Keep an extra pair of pants in the truck for the same reason as an extra shirt.
Uniform - I use a white shirt, button down collar - cotton, short sleeves (Florida) from Wal-Mart ($12), khaki pants - pleated if they have them. Just bought 5 at Wal-Mart for $12. “Boy, you use a white shirt as a work shirt?†If only one a year says that, then 12 more were/are impressed but didn’t mention it.
I call them even if I only think I might be 5 - 10 minutes late for an appt. I wish I had a $10 for each compliment I get for that. Ditto for removing my shoes before entering or putting on those medical booties first. Then there’s my “domestic kit.†Say I’m gong to change a toilet in the master bedroom at the other end of the house. First goes down nearly new 4’ x 12’ drop clothes (runners) from the front door or garage door to the work area. When done, my Windex, paper towels and terry cloth rags (domestic kit) comes out and I spritz everything and especially make sure that vanity and tub faucet gleams. “WOW†is what I get.
In short, I do any thing that contradicts the public’s impression of us as ignorant slobs, and then some.
The runner above I used to buy red fabric from a fabric store and have a lady hem all for edges. When the woman of the house mentions my red runners, I said: “Of curse. My customers get my red carpet treatment.
Years ago I remember reading the the most important wall of a room that is to be papered is the wall opposite the door wall. The wall that's first seen when walking in. The reason is that if that wall is perfect, the mind assumes the rest are as well. First impressions stick! That goes for our personal appearance, our command or our language, those runners and booties I mentioned, etc.
The above and other suggestions here have had us get tons of calls (when I had 13 in the field) from women who raved about “how†they were treated by our employees. Then as an after thought as though it’s was not that important, they’d say something like: “Oh. And by the way, so and so did a nice job as well.†But what really impressed them was the early phone call, clean up, runners, and even asking the lady for her vac. cleaner and running it over the carpet where the runners were - I’d say, just in case there was some lint or something under the runner. None of the above takes more than about 15 minutes.
BTW, all of the above and what’s been suggested by others here goes a long way toward creating your own “Brand†name, but that’s another thread.
We also do a number of things, and a lot (ok most) came from reading Sonny's posts over the years.
Go to first meeting in a clean shirt and Docker style pants. I have golf shirts with the company name printed on them.
Return calls the same day or the next morning if they come in late.
Staff wears tee shirts with company name on them and blue pants.
Clean lettered trucks.
We clean up the site every day.............every day.
We tarp anywhere we walk. (we work in occupied homes 80% of the time)
We don't play the radio if anyone is home. If they come home we turn it off. (one of the guys has radio headphones so he can listen to something)
We don't clean tools in the home owners sink, bathroom or laundry room. We act as though their house is theirs and theirs alone. We are just visitors.
We pre purchase most materials for the job in advance so we have everything going in. This allows us to have a tighter schedule and the home owners like the fact we are done early and they see progress daily. But we also do smaller jobs so that may not be possible on larger stuff although we just did a 75k addition with some remodel work. We subbed the new construction. We will be done a week early on that and the only thing we didn't identify and pre order was the siding, guess what was a pain to get? Anyway being on time is a big item we find.
Can't tell you how many compliments we get on this type of stuff. Just got done doing remodels on 2 bathrooms in the same house. This house was bought from an estate and has been extensively remodeled in the last 2 years. We only go called because the regular guy was so busy. Her big compliment was that she couldn't believe how nice it was to come home to the house with no mess every day. They will now call us in the future. (she said that) DanT
Boy its nice and refreshing to see the ol' Sonny back.
Gettin' kind of sick of those political threads...lol.
As for me...well, I'll wear my earings and worn (no holes) jeans.
I "need" to be comfortable and need to be me.
After all I spend more time on a job than I do in my bedroom.
Most people I work for like that in me. That I have no costumes or disguises. Its the artist in me I try and project, not just another contractor wearing a costume.
After a day or two they get a sample of whats to come if they don't know me, which is always professionalism and thoughtful work.
We all should IMO go after the clients that make us happy and visee versee.
I don't need to make triple the industry standard (not that thats a bad thing). I need to be happy and content during my day first and foremost (it makes for a better product).
I guess I'm known around here as a builder with heart and soul and those are the people I get along with the best...the ones that understand it.
Thats my target clientle and I believe thats who most builders need in their corner.
Far as the rest goes...it goes without saying.
Polite
clean
energetic
answer calls immediatly
yada yada yada
Its just like our work....common sense
Be well
andy
PS...I love my new signs and cards...the photo of a night sky and a lit up tipi reflecting on a still lake in the moonlight that says, "Clifford Renovations...taking the past into the future" (kinda funny actually)...everyone said when they saw the sign....even before they saw my name...they knew it was mine...seeeee...makes em' smile and think.The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"We all should IMO go after the clients that make us happy and visee versee."
I think this a great point that often gets forgoten in the rush to make money. I have learned that I am not good with whiny, sickly people to work for. I don't have the patience. My brother does so if I see that happening or they take the job even though I bid it high, he gets it. But trying your best to match the customer to your style is critical. DanT
I had 2 people in 2 days ask me what they had to do.
I told them all they needed to do was choose what they wanted, I take care of everything else. Delivery of the items they chose, removal of all rubbish at the end of the job, subs.....everything. Am thinking of a way to include a comment along those lines in the quote.
I take off my shoes when going to the house. Mostly they say its OK, but i take them off, saying I would hate to get something on their carpet. ( even if its a POS worn one.....doesnt matter, still their house )
I ALWAYS use drop cloths and clean up at the end of the day. Women especially love that.
I bought a shopvac recently. Great gizmo. Soon as I get a trailer to make tool transport easier, that thing is going to become tool No.1
Hafta admit to having a reluctance to shave every day. hate that. A necessary evil though, damnit. The earing stays however. My wife gave it to me and it doesnt come out for anybody.
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
Im with you Andy.
I think we all need to strive to be professional (courteous, prompt, clean, polite, etc.). But I dont thnk one needs to be short haired and wearing a uniform ( clean and groomed yes). That will depend on your niche or customer. While Andy's appearance would most likely not go over as well with a conservative client, it matches up quite well with those he works for/with. Where as, khaki pants and a polo shirt would most likely not mesh as well with Andy's type of clients.
As a side note, there are the artsy/hippie types out there with money ( well at least in my kneck of the woods), have worked on some of their projects. They gotta be rich, how esle can you afford all that health food :)
-m2akita
p.s. Andy, you used to live in the Nelson Cnty, Va area right?? Been helping a man build his house down there.
p.s. Andy, you used to live in the Nelson Cnty, Va area right?? Been helping a man build his house down there. >>>
Yep, In Arington and Loveingston off rt 29.
I still have friends there...Woody Greenberg and the Sheltons and FitzgearaldsThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Each of us are who we are and no need to put on a disguise to get work, but the subject of this thread is not, "How to be yourself on the job like andy does" It is about how to project a professional image.
A lot of the stuff about clean and lettered signs and print might be layered image only or it might be who we are and how we think.
What I have found about myself that projects professionallism to clients is an organized way of thinking and performing.
Had a client comment as I brought materials on the the sitre, that he could see from the way I was laying it out that I was an organized individual and that spoke to him about what he could expect from the job.
Organizing things also means that everything has it's place. Trash goes in the recepticles provided.
It means that paperwork gets done ( God, How I hate that one!) and communication is clear.
People feel comfortable with an organized structure, knowing what to expect. When they feel comfortable, the money flows easier. They don't hang up on unanswered questions, because they don't get left unanswered.
I never thought too much about keeping a clean worksite. It just happened. When I started shingling it was in new developements and trash went everywhere - there was a laborer always doing the cleanup details. Then when I started re-roofing directly for HOs, I just applied the Golden Rule, and looked at it from the neighbor's viewpoint.
I can't think clearly when the sawdust and shavings are ankle deep and it is not safe that way either, so I clean it up without thinking about it and my mind gets less cluttered in the meantime. more than once, it gets back to me that one reason my high-end clients choose me is because they have seen the mess on other contractor's sites, but have heard that mine are safe to walk through and don't look like the aftermath of a battle.
It's nothing I try to project, but is is how I am.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
piffin,
Guess I didn't do a good job in what I was trying to say. Wasn't trying to say that we should be like Andy and just be ourselves. Was more trying to comment on what makes up a professional appearance. Think I was just a little too sensitive to some of the posts saying that your hair should be short ( got my undies all in a bundle :)). Ive been growing my hair long ( at least long for me, almost shoulder length) for a personal reason, and recently have been getting flak from friends about the length. But whether your hair is long or short, you need to be clean and neat, and dress appropriate for your client/ potential client ( part of pre-qualifying a client?). One of the things I was thinking of was when I wore a suit and tie to an interview (previous career), and the owner and a supervisor walk in wearing jeans and casual shirts. I was sitting there feeling very uncomfortable until they both started laughing and said that the secretary must have forgot to tell me that they are dress casual. Oh well, guess it is better to err on the conservative side.
I am like you in the organization and job site cleanliness. Lucky for me, it just is who I am. It really bugs me to see some of these job sites that look like a dump. Gives a bad image to that builder and to the industry as a hole.
All,
What do you drive to an initial meeting with a potential client? Do you drive a work truck, or do you have another vehicle ( whether car or truck) that is nicer that you use? This isnt an issue for me yet, as I don't own a company and when I do work for myself it is for friends or friends of friends. BUT, if I did own my own company Im not sure if I would want to pull up to a potential clients house in one of my work trucks They are not too beat up, but they are what they are, work trucks loaded with tools, ladders, and all that stuff. What have you guys done??
-m2akita
Re the long hair thing, it's not an issue for me... I've had long hair for the last 30 years. Then, about 5 months ago, I said, hey - what's the point in having long hair if you don't have much hair anyway - now it's a BUZZ CUT!!!!!! Matt
For most folks I know, it is less the length of the hair, and far more the way it is kept. A man - or woman - who is a personal slob can be expected to be slovenly about the work they perform.
There's another example from the other side of this thing. One of my customers keeps an immaculate desk. He may have things spread around when he is working at it, but any other time I enter that office in his home, the top is clean except for a few 3x5 cards spaced evenly in order of rank. He pays his bills immediately after he gets them.
Another customer, a friend of his, has piles of papers and folders spread all over his office, like mine, and he pays his bills when he gets around to it, sometimes immediately, and sometimes in four to six weeks.
Guess which one gets my immediate attention when he calls...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That varies.
I recently traded my'88 Dakota for a '99 Chevy.
There really wasn't anything wrong with the Dakota, but it was looking a little beat and sorry from the half dozen little dings that work trucks earn and that weren't worth paying to fix, but I was occasionally geting embarassed driving up to some houses.
I would use the '94 Isusu Rodeo ( Good looking and clean) I bought for my daughter three years ago when I could for that fist meeting or two. That one is on the sales block now - to pay for her school books.
A good test of when a vehicle is getting too old - is when my wife or daughter refuse to drive it, out of embarrassment, LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Andy,
People are funny. When I first set out on my own, I guy I knew from the Guard( the same guy who gave me an FHB copy and told me about breaktime) taught me to do something I had never done. I needed a steady cash flow and subbing these installs was a big help. I followed him around for three weeks and learned all I could. I noticed he was stubborn, standoffish and arogant. And, you know what? People loved him. He was an " Artist".
Now, I'm pretty stubborn, Arogant and set in my ways myself. when I started subbing by myself, it wasn't long before builders were asking the shop for me by name. Some would even wait a week or two for me if I was booked.
Then one day a builder introduced me as the " Artist" he had told them about. Funny, Some people want to have a romantic view of us as artists. From that day on, I never let them down and I never wanted for work.
I attended to every little detail like sanding and cleaning up. making sure everything was the best i could make it. I even let them in on little secrets of the trade ( funny how what we take for granted mystifies most people).
Shortly before embarking on my current endeavor I was teachiing a friend the same work. the last secret i shared was the whole Artist thing. Guess what, he is now swamped with work.
It always amazes me how much mess some tradesmen can leave.
On ths one kitchen remodel I did a few years ago, the homeowners were very nervous about the mess from demolition. I told them I'd take care of everything. I sealed all the doors to the rest of the house, did the demo, and vacuumed everything when I was done. The HOs were at work all day, and I left before they got home.
I got a call that evening thanking me for keeping everything so neat and saying that they really thought that dust would have been everywhere.
I've gotten many referrals from that. It usually goes something like " We were talking to ( previous customer ) and and we liked what you did there, but they also said that you cleaned up after yourself.
I've gotten jobs just because of that.
Shep, it's a tragic indictment of the so called “professionals†in our industry that are slobs.
For years I complained about these guys and one day a customer told me to be thankful for them because they make guys like you, me, and others like the “Princes†of our industry. I took his advice and now I pray for more of them.
Just one more thing contributing toward Branding and the ability to command higher margins.
I learned quite awhile ago, from one of my mentors, keep it tidy.
He would (b4 digicams) note exactly where knick knacks were, b4 we carefully relocated them outta harms way..I mean he TOOK notes..say on a coffe table, which mag was on top, exactly where the remotes were laid..toatally anal.
The upshot was, when the HO's got home, Everything was exzctly as they had left it (only cleaner, we did not use the dust footprint to replace an item..)
I still find myself doing that now, as well as knowing to remove anything hanging on a wall, before the pounding commences outdoors.
My current customer thinks I do a better job cleaning up after myself than the cleaning lady does...maybe I am in the wrong biz?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Sonny,
You sound like a class act. For those hoping to emulate you and reap the huge rewards a first class business generates, I challenge them the put together several of the items being discussed in this post as a written promise to their prospective customers - and then follow up to ensure they, and ALL of their crew, never violate their promise to the client.
As pedantic as they can be, check-lists (especially when reviewed continually with crew to reinforce key values) can generate new business, and retain existing customers, by maintaining consistent levels of excellence.
Some behaviors that lose business: pulling up to a job or prospect with the stereo playing too loudly in your vehicle; swearing, littering, and smoking.
At the risk of offending some, don't show up looking like a malcontent or hoodlum. Reserve your head scarves until work commences, and keep your tats covered, or at least inconspicuous.
My two cents,-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
Thanks guys. I've compiled quite a list and already put some of it into practice today. Matt
Just a few more suggestions,
A roll of breath mints in the truck.
I take my sunglasses off about a block before I get to the house. Nothing like eye contact and a smile to make people comfortable.
If your appointment is at 9:00am, don't get there at 9:00am, and spend the next 15 minutes in the truck talking on the phone. Also try to avoid taking phone calls while meeting with a client.
If your appointment is at 9:00am, plan to arrive at 8:50.
Also try to avoid taking phone calls while meeting with a client. Just leave the phone in the truck. The client you are with needs to think they are the most important client you have.Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Also try to avoid taking phone calls while meeting with a client. Just leave the phone in the truck. The client you are with needs to think they are the most important client you have.
That's a great one! As a HO interviewing designer/builders I was blown away by how much more important the person on the phone was when we were discussing the job. One guy met every other point on your list - very professional appearance, logo'd shirt, pre-visit package (that is a good one to add - with references and background info) etc. but he interrupted our conversation 4 or 5 times to talk on the phone or 2-way. That played a real role in my decision to not hire him.
I added the phone call thing to my list. Even though, I do leave it in the truck during initial sales calls and bid presentation, it doesn't hurt to put a reminder in writing.
Matt
I have been following this thread with great interest and should make clear before I comment that I am not a full fledged contractor but some sort of sub/freelance guy who doesn't base his activity on a direct connection with a client's wallet.
My career has given me a perfect opportunity, however, to see the gap between the contractor's rap and a client's concern. In regards to the importance of working clean and not alienating the client or neighbors by unseemly behavior, I think that the work culture that leads to that result can be of two kinds:
One is exemplified by teams of uniformed workers who always toe the line described in detail in the directives given out with the paychecks.
The other is a meritocracy created by seeing construction work as a perfomance art.
Both routes are paved by expectations but I submit that the consequences of choosing one way or the other involve long range commitments that are consequential. Both may qualify as "professional" but they are not the same animal.
dont park with a "letterd" truck in front of a bar, even if lunch with a burger and a coke
we did a remodel of a bar, we took flax for days from friends , who knows what others think ( the bar was closed, no brewskis even after hours)
drive nice , dont drive like a jerk and cut people off or run red lights etc, with a lettered truck
dont crank up the tunes if working on a customres house, dont play talk show, political, religous, or nasty rock........you dont know who youlll offend, unless you abosultely absolutely know they agree with your religous or political beliefs. radio choices
just play, classic rock, classic or ...............
nasty rock.....one local station plays all the songs with 4 letter words and talks about nasty stuff...........maybe ok when your crusing home , or a new house job site with no one around, but not in front of an 80 year old lady or the mayor, nope dont work
clean clothes ok, but one step further clena clothes that are not revealing undies ( like blown out crotch or butt) or offensive clothes similar to the radio idea
we have company shirts
even if you do drink beer ( after work) and the owner offers you one, dont take it. find a polite way to say no thanks.
Im too hot and beer would go striagt to my head, no I have to drive a bit and Im already tired, ...........but thank you so much for the offer
had a cusotmer that we built a big place for in the summer. He always showed up near the end of the day with a 6 pack, we always helped him celebrate
at the end fo the job, on a punch list , he mentioned, so did you guys do this after the beer ?
if a homeonwer offers you some fresh food and you take it, eat it , yummy, even if it is a dead fish
if a homeonwer shows you some work he/she has done find the positive in it, never say ...........boy what crap work
lastly remeber the homeowner is your employer this month and this is your office this month. dont piss off your boss or piss on your job site
Thanks - added a few more to my personal list.
Matt
"if a homeonwer offers you some fresh food and you take it, eat it , yummy, even if it is a dead fish"
LOL, You'd rather dine on a live fish?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Some great ideas here. I live in Santa Cruz, tho, and having short hair here won't get you any points, although being neat and clean should anywhere. Promptly returning phone calls, and being upfront and honest are important things in my book. I see so many contractors who act like they have something to hide from their clients. They act like they're the adversary. Full disclosure about everything along the way will get you lots of repeat business.
Cleaning up after yourself is important, too, as others have mentioned. Doing excellent work, keeping a clean jobsite, and fully discussing things with the client as you go along are good starts.
Edited 8/26/2004 11:56 pm ET by Allen
One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is being honest about how long things will take.
For instance - My neighbors hired a contractor to dig out a basement under their house. The contractor said they would have to move out. If they got out of the house by January 1st, he could finish in about 30 days. It's now the end of August, and the GC stil isn't done. To the best of my knowledge, they haven't even worked on the house for 3 weeks.
Which is sort of another point - I know that contractors MUST keep more than one project going at a time. But customers don't like it when you on't show up, or say you'll be there and then don't show. I think it's important to be honest with them about when you'll be there.
.
Another thing that comes to mind is where the guys take a leak at. A woman once told me all the guys went on her bushes around behind the house, and it smelled horrible. (Hadn't rained in a while, so it didn't get washed away)
.
Another incident I remember was when some guys had been hired to do some remodelling in the house of a single woman. Afterwards she said her underwear drawers had been rifled through more than once. You can bet she won't be forgetting that anytime soon.
.
Can't think of anything else to add, excep that this thread has been educational. Maybe we ought to refer guys to this thread who come in here asking about becoming contractors.......................(-:
Q: Did you hear about the new "morning after" pill for men?
A: It changes their blood type.
Hey Bosshog,
YOur quote "Another incident I remember was when some guys had been hired to do some remodelling in the house of a single woman. Afterwards she said her underwear drawers had been rifled through more than once. You can bet she won't be forgetting that anytime soon. " gives me a great marketing idea.
To promote professionalism I think I'm going to add a slogan to our remodeling division signs...something like this:
WE WONT RIFLE THROUGH YOUR UNDERWEAR DRAWERS!
. Thanks for the idea!
blueIf you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
"WE WONT RIFLE THROUGH YOUR UNDERWEAR DRAWERS!"
It's actually funny that you mention that. We used to use a line in our sales pitch about how "our guys are professionals. You won't have to worry about leaving the house and having them running around with your underwear on their heads".
It sounds silly, but it made people think about just what they were about to do- they were going to open their homes to complete strangers for weeks or months, giving them complete and total access to do God knows what when they were at work, etc. Somehow that comment built a comfort level, since we were the only ones that mentioned their panties....lol.
Bob
I havn't worried for even a second about my underwear drawyers... :-)Matt
I have worked with several guys who admit to going thru peoples stuff!
Me, I would never admit it!!!
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
I had to move a bunch of stuff out of a closet once to do a job.
After some of what I found there - never again! They move their own stuff.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That brings back memories.......same deal, had to clean out a closet or something..........ran into their "entertainment box"!!!! EEEEECCCCHHHHHHH!
Nice Catholic couple, three very lovely daughters.......it was difficult to look them straight in the eye after that though!! I'm no prude, and to each his own, just way to much information. Funny thing is, they must have considered that I saw this stuff.......didn't get a vibe from them that it mattered though!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
I'm with you there... The HO has gotta move their own stuff... I don't want to find some of their "stuff" as I have done before.....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I once had to move some leftover boxes (they had just moved in and hadn't sorted this stuff) of a very famous roundball player (Joe Dumars). I didn't find anything nasty, but found myself wondering about all the Basketball collectables (NCAA stuff, nets that had been cut down, basketaballs, trophies, etc.).
blueIf you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
Professional image, incuding a logo, goes a long way. The portfolio is also a plus, as some clients prefer looking at past work "in person" vs the web site scenario.
Joe
Renaissance Restorations
Antique & Victorian Home Restoration Services
http://www.renaissancerestorations.com
While I know I'm not qualified for a lot of the contractor conversations here, I do think (IMHO of course) that I'm pretty darn good at marketing. There's been a lot of great advice here, but something that I think has been sort of glossed over is the concept of finding a niche and exploiting it. Not everyone wants or needs the same thing in a contractor (common courtesies such as a clean worksite, politeness etc go without saying). In my current business I staked out the position of being the absolute best and my prices are secondary to that. Not to say we are exorbitant but when you come to my place, it's clear you are in the best place in the area, and it may cost you an extra... say 10 or 15% to have the best. By the same token, other places flourish by being known as the fastest, or cheapest place in town.
Anyway... of the many books I've read on marketing the number one, by far, is called (it's a deliberately hokey title) "Positioning-The Battle for Your Mind" written by two very famous marketing gurus, Trout and Ries. I believe it's out of print but I'm sure readily available used on Amazon. It's a very easy read, but a brilliantly written book. These guys are the ones that coined the concept of positioning in the marketplace and they make observations that really make the lightbulb go off over your head. Buy it, you won't be sorry.
Honesty along with a very high sense of integrity should be a given for any business person.
Rick, you just met a smoker who never smokes in anyone’s house, even when they say it’s Ok cause they smoke. And I strip my butts breaking off the filter which does not degrade and stick it in my pocket or tool belt, and never, ever flip butts on anyone drive or landscaping.
Paul, you brought up “Niching†as I call it. I align creating any niche with “Brandingâ€, which I mentioned could be another thread. Branding is where the real money is, which brings me to another point:
Andy, you’re not a contractor per se’, but instead, you perceive yourself as being an artist. As such it matters not how you look, what you say, if you have a 12†long beard or for that matter, never shave. Most of us here, however, consider ourselves business people first.
I hate shaving but I do. I don’t like wearing uniforms, but I do like looking professional. I don’t necessarily like to always use good speech as opposed to “ain’tâ€, dees, dems and does, but I pride myself upon my command of our language.
For the most part, our customers are conservative, unless you live in CA where many people are, shall I say, different. When I was in my late 20s and a retail store manager managing people in thruway 50s and 60s, I looked like I was 18, so I grew a goatee - neatly trimmed to make me look a little older. I didn’t like it but it served it’s purpose.
Unlike artists whose #1 priority is to create what they create, most of us are interested in making a buck, and the more we can, the better, but doing it while we enjoy working in areas we prefer. So I shave often, wear professional looking clothes and shined shoes, speak properly, and otherwise, look and act in a manner that “contributes to and validates†my professional image.
A few years ago I had a guy who wanted to go partners with me in his screen enclosure and aluminum company. He was in his mid 30s and came into my office with a small earing on both ears, stating that his wife gave them to him and said he looked “cool.†I said that was fine to look “cool†on his non-business time, but “cool†does not belong in business unless one is a musician, creates software or such.
So I guess each of us must decide if we are artists and the preferred casual operation type, or business people willing to meet the expected demands of business ownership dealing directly with and for the public. Both types “brand†themselves but both types have different goals. One to ply their artistic expertise in the artistic world, while the other is to apply their trade and management expertise in the business world.
So the “me†or “myself†in my case is that of a construction professional businessman. I readily admit I have not artistic talent.
Wow, breaking off the filter; if I didn't know better from your tavern posts I would think I could actually work with you :)
Yep! Some of us conservatives are also environmentally sensitive and do have some good character pluses.
so who's the other one?
"So who's the other one?"
Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha - Good one, Rick!
Remember, I used to be a liberal when in college, so maybe there's a residual effect.
Besides, I never talk politics at work. I just enjoy the companionship of my peers. Our commonalities trumps our political differences. Besides, one of us (me) has to prove that we're (I'm) capable of tolerating you guys. Self-imposed sensitivity training. (-:
:clap: :clap: :clap:
I once watched someone bow up like a cutworm when I "suggested" that his appearance wasn't business like.
I work on projects that range from one to twenty million. Those clients don't understand the term "artistic".
A friend made the gaff of saying he was "playing around" with the design to a client. The client indicated that when he gave someone a project, he expected them to be serious and not "play" with his money. That comment made a real big impression on me.
One point that nobody mentioned (maybe b/c it is obvious), and a pet peeve of mine: smoking. For high end-work especially, showing up w/ a butt in your mouth, or smoking around the jobs site just looks bad. I can't tell you how many contractors I have worked with who smoke the whole day through, for someone who doesn't smoke the place just reeks at the end of the day, and your clothes reek too, not the kind of image you want to leave. Wealthy/high-end may also mean more health-conscious or at least more paranoid/sensitive.
Also, I have never met anyone who smokes who didn't think it was perfectly ok to leave their stomped butts everwhere, which just makes the job site messier; I once worked with a guy who had put-out a day's worth of cigs on a brand-new mahogany deck.
Matt,
One thing that has been hinted at here, but not stated explicitly is if you can't or don't want a job, politely decline with whatever excuse you can come up with. As a potential client, I appreciate a polite blowoff - "Our schedule is so full that we can't do justice to your project" or better yet "We're not equipped to tackle this kind of work, but I know that Joe Blow Construction does a lot of this type of work and is highly regarded." Of course, this assumes that Joe Blow is not a slimy slob and can do the work.
I was talking with a friend the other day who asked for a quote from a company, toured them around her house and then never heard back. This company was the only one she was looking at and not only did they lose a good job, when anybody asks her for references, she wont be shy about letting them know she was disappointed with the lack of courtesy she got from these guys.
I am in agreement with my friend here. If I get stood up by a contractor, there won't be a second chance. If I get even a somewhat polite blowoff, I will gladly pass that name on to anybody who asks for suggestions where the job might be a better match. You can also bet that the next time I need something done and the guy I have been working with can't do it, you will at least get a chance to look at the project.
I will also agree with the others who posted here that keeping my job site neat and showing up about when you said you would is important. Simple courtesy like this shows me that you care about my project and not just the almighty dollar. Communication is the key to keeping happy customers in any line of work, and happy customers tend to lead to better referrals (assuming you pick the jobs and clients that are right for you).
Good luck on improving your professional appearance. I am sure it will pay for itself in happier clients, better jobs, and more job satisfaction.
Steve
Just thought of what for me might be the most important things.
Good manners
Tact
Diplomacy
If the customer asks with obvious delight what i think of something, I choose my answer very carefully. Odds on he/she did it themselves, or a relative did.
If the customer has decided on a certain brand/product and asks my opinion I be honest about it. But if the thing is total crap I think it best to say something like "While product A is good, there are some that are better for this situation and more cost effective". Nothing like dumping on someone to really put them off.
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
OK Great! You all came up with some really good ideas. I tried to summarize, and I've got a pretty good list going. If I left some out, they may have not pertained to me (smoking) although, actually, I left that one in for subs, and employees. Here it is:
Points to Remember to Project a Professional Image
General:
v Return phone calls promptly.
v Always call back every caller, even if you don’t want the job
v Always exercise tack, good manners, diplomacy
v Short hair and recently shaven, clean clothes. No torn cloths.
v Very clean truck with professional lettering.
v Always remove shoes when entering the clients house, especially on the initial meeting, and when presenting the proposal.
v No handwritten anything given to clients... everything is computer generated including addressed envelopes, mailing labels, etc.
v Don't park in the client's driveway except if they are not home (at work). Move truck before they are expected to come home.
v Don’t use the homeowner’s sink or bathroom
v Always call if late for an appointment – even if it is only 5 minutes.
v don't take phone calls while talking to the client. during the bid brocess, leave the phone in the truck.
v Don’t berate other work that has been done on the house – rather say something like – here is a way it could have been done better … Always try to put a positive spin on things.
During the bid process:
v Detailed proposals.
v Fluent in discussing all parts of the job. Make it clear that you know exactly what is needed and how it will be done.
v Always compliment the homeowner on some aspect of their home
v Always present the proposal in person and go over it with the customer.
While on the job:
v If there is going to be a particularly dirty job on a given day, bring an extra shirt.
v Keep the job clean. Clean up at the end of each work day.
v Don’t accept beer/alcohol from customers.
v Anticipate things they didn't when talking about how the job will go / is going.
v No loud radio, only slightly loud when they are not home, and no nasty rock.
v Be careful with what is said by you or your crew areound the homeowner. Avoid saying things lile "oops" and "close enough" and no cussing.
v Never any smoking inside a clients house. If outside, not when the customer is around, and remove all evidence (buts)
v And of course... do great work.
Matt
Edited 8/28/2004 5:50 pm ET by DIRISHINME
Edited 8/28/2004 5:54 pm ET by DIRISHINME
"Always exercise tack, good manners, diplomacy"
Always exercise tact, good manners, diplomacy-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
>> Always exercise tact, good manners, diplomacy ...
Which includes not offering people unsolicited spelling corrections. :)
Mea culpa. I apologize.-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
Remember, everything on your list and what we’ve talked about here is really a “promise†of what your customer can expect from you based upon the image you project.
Now you have to create a system that will guarantee you will “deliver†on what you “promise.â€
Image and what's been discussed here gets you in the door.
Salesmanship gets you the project.
“WOWing†them during and after project completion 1) contributes to your positive Brand name, 2) turns that customer into a raving fan 3) who will also become an unpaid sales person for you.
We’ve talked about step one. Now work on two and three.
Way back then.... did you ever make up a mass compelation of points to remember? other than the few you have on the thread posted?
Put anything down on paper...?
positive image
no cheep beer !!! or frozen pizzas !!!!
Below is what I came up with.
Points to Remember to Project a Professional Image<!----><!---->
General:<!---->
v Return phone calls promptly.
v Always call back every caller, even if you don’t want the job
v Always exercise tack, good manners, diplomacy<!---->
v Short hair and recently shaven, clean clothes. No torn cloths.
v Very clean truck with professional lettering.
v Always remove shoes when entering the clients house, especially on the initial meeting, and when presenting the proposal.
v No handwritten anything given to clients... everything is computer generated including addressed envelopes, mailing labels, etc. <!---->
v Don't park in the client's driveway except if they are not home (at work). Move truck before they are expected to come home.
v Don’t use the homeowner’s sink or bathroom<!---->
v Always call if late for an appointment – even if it is only 5 minutes.
v Don’t berate other work that has been done on the house – rather say something like – here is a way it could have been done better … Always try to put a positive spin on things.
During the bid process:
v Detailed proposals.<!---->
v Fluent in discussing all parts of the job. Make it clear that you know exactly what is needed and how it will be done.<!---->
v Always compliment the homeowner on some aspect of their home <!---->
v Always present the proposal in person and go over it with the customer.
v Do not take a cell phone with you when visiting the potential customer’s house.
While on the job:<!---->
v If there is going to be a particularly dirty job on a given day, bring an extra shirt.<!---->
v Keep the job clean. Clean up at the end of each work day.
v Don’t accept beer/alcohol from customers.<!---->
v Anticipate things they didn't when talking about how the job will go / is going.<!---->
v No loud radio, only slightly loud when they are not home, and no nasty rock.
v Never any smoking inside a clients house. If outside, not when the customer is around, and remove all evidence (buts)
v And of course... do great work.<!---->
Matt
I think you have brought up a good point relating to bowing out of a job. Its easy to hear the quick details of a job and say youre not interested. Such as, Roof replacement, we dont do that kind of work or dont have time. But what do you do when you have spent some time with the customer either on phone or in person and its obvious you have some interest in the project but something is just not right for you. What do you say then?
This happened to me. Room addition, good size, good initial conversation, additional work as part of main addition, overall very appealing. Further conversation uncovers this: Multiple bidders and no prints, working with wife only husband will not be involved until wifer chooses contractor, questionable finances, job is kind of far, neighborhood cant support dollar value to home. At this point ive been on the phone about 1/2 hour chatting about her plans for this and im slowly deciding its no good for us. How do I back out now that ive expressed so much interest in her project? I told her job was not right for us. She asks why. So I told her. I want all decision makers present, I dont think you have enough equity to make it practicle, I dont think you can afford to do it based on what you have told me. Too many bidders, 5 total. It didnt end well. She was pissed. Called me a pig because i wanted her husband present. Oh well its a job that will never happen.
Justin,
It sounds to me like you avoided a train wreck just waiting to happen. Sorry about her resorting to name calling - not very professional on her side, but then someone who is going about this in a professional manner would have their ducks in a row enough to at least have prints, financing and a rough idea where they are headed.
I see a few different approaches to bowing out of the bidding process. Since it is apparent from your description (and the number of bidders) that she is probably looking for Snap-On quality at Wal*Mart prices, you could have bid the job ridiculously high and prayed you didn't get it. I would guess you would have been pretty safe in this case but I don't think that it is always (or even usually) a good way out. One caveat - if you do opt out like this, spend enough time to CYA in case you do get the job.
A second approach is to do exactly what you did. I have learned over time that I am going to learn more about problems in my organization and team from an exit interview then I ever will from somebody who is working for me at the time. Of course, this is predicated on being able to sit there and bite your tongue when you want to defend why you do something. What the person who is leaving has to say is very likely going to be uncomfortable, but I had better think about it and try to use that information to improve in the future. Had you and I had the same conversation, I would have thanked you for the feedback and your time, and then asked myself if I need a reality check.
A third approach might have been to water down what you told her. I suspect that the finances and not the decision making process was the issue here. I am generalizing here, but a lot of people who don't have the money can't seem to get over the fact that you suggestion they don't have everything the Jones's have is not a personal insult, but rather a statement of fact. In this case, you might have told her that you are unable to give any more then a general estimate without prints and that you have seen too many undocumented projects spiral out of control which means huge costs on change orders, time overruns, etc. Make her think that you are doing her a favor by declining and letting someone who has a better track record working with undocumented/unplanned projects.
A final approach might be to lie to her. Don't ever let down the client at the initial meeting, but rather call back the next day with some BS about how you talked with your subs and can't get the cost into something you would be comfortable putting into your house, or all of the guys you use are booked into the next century. Stress that you are trying to be fair to them and don't have enough experience in some unique aspect of the job to make it look like you are in their corner. As long as it is a plausible sounding story and you sound sincere, the client probably won't go away mad which of the three options (happy, ambivalent, or mad) is not too bad.
Overall, I wouldn't sweat losing this job unless your kids are eating rice and beans every night. Good luck in finding the right clients to work for - they can make thing real enjoyable.
Steve
Dont let it bother you. I always insist both parties are present at meetings. Thats the only way to get a clear picture of the project.
Right. If both parties can't get together with you in the beginning, they'll never get together with you at the other end - payday - as a general rule.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Re keeping a clean worksite: I like to keep all my materials neatly stacked and catorigrised - 2x4s with 2x4s, etc. I'll cover material piles if they are going to sit long enough to be damaged by weather, etc. I really don't think homeowners want to see me nailing up muddy or moldy boards, even if it is just framing... In new construction this is unheard of.
Matt
Just make it about you. Never "attack" their house or project or money.
Things like "I realize that the project is too far for me. I would like to do it, but I have found that I have to raise my rates so high that I could not be competitive."
"I like for both spouses involved from the start. I find that I get confused if they aren't and the project gets off to a bad start."
Even make some up if you need to such as "This will require lots of plumbing work and my TRUSTED subs are way backed up. I have used others, but always with base results. "Your house will require stucco patching and I don't do that".
to get both partners involved with me - "When the job is finished, I want BOTH OF YOU to be satisfied with it. The only way this is possible is if we can meet so I understand everybodies expectations and so both of you can understand mine."
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Never ever drink with the HO. My brother once sparked one up with a client. The guy fired him and stiffed him for 25 grand. Stupid?!!
Instruct your crew as to who is allowed to answer HO questions. You dont want any communication you are not aware of.
Be careful about what is heard within ear-shot of the HO. The answer to all questions between crew members is "yeah, that looks pretty good" followed by a hand signal.
My wife and I just got back from going out for dinner with my son and his wife, and we talked about this thread. He mentioned that one of the business owners club he belongs to said if you want to be successful make a written list of every single thing you "could" do that would make your business go under.
Post it on a wall and vow never to make any of them.
For example: Leave the store/office/jobs filthy, treat your employees like crap, etc.
>> Never ever drink with the HO. My brother once sparked one up with a client. The guy fired him and stiffed him for 25 grand. Stupid?!! <<
drinking and "sparking one up" doesn't exactly sound like the same thing, but I'd definitely agree neither should ever be done... :-)
Anyway, thanks to all for the super response on this thread. I've got the list printed out and exercised a few of the "new" items" on a initial bid meeting yesterday. Matt
"Never ever drink with the HO."
You've never worked for a lawyer, have you? They seem to think of it as prime negotiating lubricant.
The thing to do is to accept graciously, but just sip enough to wet the lips. then you can drink all you want after the job is done and the check is cashed.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!