Property Taxes: How much do you pay?
Hudson Valley Carpenter
| Posted in Business on
I’ve been doing some research on property taxes in my rural area of NY State. Saw a RE listing for a new 2000sqft 3br, 2bth Chalet on 3ac. Asking $349K. Property and school taxes expected to be $6,000 annually.
How does that compare with your taxes?
Edited 3/13/2008 11:03 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Replies
Looks like you pay about 1.7%
My taxes are 1,500 on a $64,000 house, or about 2.3%
In my state there is a substantial difference between a for sale asking price and a property's valuation for taxes. Generally the valuation is between 70% and 80% of what the asking price would be.
With that in mind, If we sold our house it would for about $330K and the annual property taxes (which include schools) are about $3K
Bergen County, NJ, before we moved in 2005....RE taxes were $12,000+. We bought the house in 1998 for $365K. Taxes THEN were $6500.
Now in NE PA, We paid $360K and taxes are $4,100.
"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
Bergen County, NJ, before we moved in 2005....RE taxes were $12,000+. We bought the house in 1998 for $365K. Taxes THEN were $6500.
OUCH!
Now in NE PA, We paid $360K and taxes are $4,100.What county? Is it a year round community or mixed with summer homes or what? What's been happening to the taxes there over the last twenty years?
I ask because I used to build in some of the Pocono's developments, Hemlock Farms for example. I'm pretty familiar with everything north and east of the Delaware Water Gap.
I've often thought that I'd be smart to buy some property in NE PA, just because of the lower taxes and the saner pace of life.
You're right, and I did buy extra property. Im in Monroe County. When we moved in, there was no one with 1 1/2 miles. Now, we have 4-5 homes within 1/2 mile. We are attracting more and more attention. And we love it here. We have both summer homes, and more full time people as time goes on."The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
To those from NJ, people complain about CA, I think jersey is the most tax state in the nation. That is why I left.Car registration, property tax, now the Gov wants to raise parkway and turnpike fees to benefit other roads, income tax, sales tax at least it is not on clothes or food.
What gets me is the fact that no one does a thing if two million people showed up for a march, on Trenton in protest it would show them who put them there.Any way in Idaho our house is tax on a asset value of 146000 1100 sf taxes are $938 a year
We get a homeowners exemption or about 50000 off the asset value. So they give us our rebate up front rather then a homesteaders rebate check back. Which I here that it may be smaller for you NJ folk this year. Our lot is asset at 189,000 we pay 1400 on taxes on it no exemption. it is larger then our home and a pricer neighborhood.Maybe everyone in NJ should send a letter to the Gov when they move to another state and tell him they left because of taxes.On a side note the Gov here wanted to raise car registration 150 no matter what car a new benz or a 1000 junker. Took the legislature two minutes to tell him take a walk. By the why my registration is $74 on gmc 1500 Serria 2004.Wallyo
I'm sure glad that I planned for this period of my life by purchasing building lots when I was young and the property was affordable.
But it's still frustrating to be looking at a property tax bill of over $6K annually when the services are almost non-existent.
I'll probably be hollerin' a lot louder after I get the C.O. for my new home and the first tax bill arrives.
NY is not much better then NJ. We still complain in idaho when they raise taxes here.
I'm glad to hear that you've found a state where your taxes seem to equate with the services provided.
I'll plan on doing some research on Idaho, see what you've gotten yourselves into, so far from New Joisey. ;-)
I remember driving south on a two lane in the middle of the state, through some mountains and along a river. It was winter then, a cold, sunny day in a beautiful place.
In Boise 1/2 hour to sking in power, snowing up there now. Wish I did not have a grammer school open house tonight, I'd be up there, sking till 10 PM or ten minutes to fly fishing. http://www.bogusbasin.org/web-cameras/index.aspxWarm and rainy in town today.Wallyo
Maybe everyone in NJ should send a letter to the Gov when they move to another state and tell him they left because of taxes.
And guess what...neighbors of mine moved out of NJ due to taxes. They got hit with a "sold house...moving out of state" tax when then left. F'n NJ politicians. I am real close to moving to PA.
You are joking right it is not just a balance due on taxes between buyer and seller at closing?It reminds me or what happened to me when I moved out. I had 8 or 9 points on my license paid the tickets paid higher insurance. Well they figured I should pay more I had an insurance surcharge of about $200 per year paid to the state of NJ for three years.Paid the first year then moved to Idaho, they figured that I should still pay after moving. Tried to explain I did not care to since I did not live there. Mind you this was not a court judgement or a ticket, NJ just thought I should paid 200 a year to them wether I lived there or not. Of course I refused to pay it for years. Well they decided my dad and I were the same person (we have the same first and last names different middle initials) They took the money out of his Homestead Rebate Check 400 plus interest. No chance of getting that back.When I paid the first time I called my congressman ask him why He said the funds go to under uninsured motorists. I explained to the block head I have insurance I paid my fines. Why am I being fined again he said this is not a fine its insurance I said I have insurance so it is a fine. We went on like this for FIVE MINUTES around and around the circle. That is when I decided it was time to leave.My dad and mom gave up and moved here too they were in there 70's. They have since passed away, but in there finial years they were free from NJ.Wallyo
Edited 3/13/2008 9:35 pm ET by wallyo
Out here on Vancouver Island my house is assessed at $360.000.00 and taxes are about $2500.00.
Out here in BC (only in BC I think) if the home is your personal residence you get a reduction of about $650.00. That's off the $2500.00. Now here is a really great thing. I think when you get to around 60 you don't have to pay ANY property tax!!!!!!!!!! What happens is that your taxes are actually deferred until you die or sell at a later date. The interest for not paying is 1% LESS prime. This way older people on fixed incomes won't lose their homes because of high taxes. It becomes more of an estate issue.
I'm staggered by your property taxes PLUS you pay for health care!!!! ( just had to say that :) :) :) but it's true.
roger
My God, your story is exactly my story. Rockland County NY right next to Bergan Cty NJ we were paying $11,500. Now 10 years later in S.E. Pa it's about $3,500.
funny how history repeats itself... I'm sure there are plenty MORE like us out there."The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
Hard to give you a realistic number on my house in southern Westchester...We bought the house as a foreclosure about 14 years ago for $105,000 (a steal) and were paying around $6,500 on combined taxes at the time.
Since then, we have doubled the size of the house, and the most recent appraisal for the home when we refinanced some five years ago was $425K. I don't recall what the town assessed our homes value at, but we currently pay around $12,500 combined taxes.
I have yet to get my CO (for fear of raised taxes, among other things), but my personal appraisal would put the house's value at around $550K. Although, I see smaller houses of lesser quality going for more. I'm thinkng my taxes should be closing in on the $17K mark. Hence my fear to call for a C of O.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
Holy Crow! Forget the C.O.!
It's as if you were renting your home from the state, county and town.
My little cabin, soon to be demoed, is taxed at about $2200/yr, total. But it's only about 400sqft.
I'm getting sticker shock from the idea of building a new place and then paying $500+/mo in taxes, plus HO insurance, heating fuel and utilities. Even if I live in it only for the required two years before selling I'll have $20K+ expenses in it.
If you are already living there "we don't need no stinking certificates".
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
You got that right!
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
Hudson Valley Carpenter,
just over $9000 a year..
Wow, and I thought I was getting mugged by the city. My house is valued at $580000 and I pay $2400 property taxes a year. This is in Coquitlam, BC, Canada.
Martin
Nashville, TN My home is worth about $240k, real estate taxes are about $1900
In Sumner County, TN, county appraised $185k, taxed $1475... but no income tax.
Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
In Maine, I'm paying about 1% of assessed value, probably would be a bit lower than 1 % of actual fair market value.
1% of actual value sounds about right to me.
From those responding and other sources it seems that the states with the big cities have the highest property taxes. Is that true and, if so, why?
Hudson Valley Carpenter,
I pay over $9000 a year and I'm not whining a bit..
Why? well because it helps to lower my federal taxes (and state), and the rate of appreciation has been much more than the taxes I pay.. That's like paying a stock brokers commision on a winning stock!
From those responding and other sources it seems that the states with the big cities have the highest property taxes. Is that true and, if so, why?
Not necessarily. For example, NH has generally much higher property taxes than MA or ME for comparably valued property. NH has no state income tax, while MA and ME both have income taxes. Some state to state differences are probably accounted for by differences in school funding, with some states paying a higher proportion than others.
Some big cities have disproportionate costs for fire/ police. etc. The per capita cost for fire protection in Boston or NYC is much higher than in my little town with its volunteer fire dept. and no tall buildings.
About 2% market value, chicago suburb
Somewhat rural Lee County, Georgia, house around $ 160,000, taxes are just under $ 1,200.
Greg
Ore.
Right at 2% on the appraised value (118,000) which is probably 75k below market value right now.
I'm in a suburb of Rochester NY. And my taxes are 3.4% of apprased, wich is pretty close to actual value.
How does that compare with your taxes?
1400 sf on .304 acres
County evaluation is 84200 up from 74800
Assessed 1768 down from 1785
County/City has the land value 19720 up from 17160, or just shy of 65K/acre
Not a terrible two-step of State-mandated tax reductions and county-set evalutation increases. This year, at least.
Your location will likely vary based on what its evaluation is, and what the rate per $100 works out to be.
House a few blocks over comes close (but only 2.12 acres), assessed $6888 in taxes. That help any?
my home is a 2 bedroom, 2 bath, 1550 square feet half duplex with 2 car attached garage on a corner lot backing up to the subdivision detention pond. Paid about 210,000 for the house in August 2006.
2006 tax bill was $5.72 since the house was built after assessments were done in March. Based on what my neighbors are paying, I'm expecting this year's bill to be about $2800 or so.
How does that compare with your taxes?
We pay $.68/100 of fair market value. Apparently we've got a great deal here as I did a job on the assessor when the house was first valued. A decade later, all the way up to $80.5k, where the median is nearly $300k.
My larger issue is unimproved land taxation. Normally taxed at fair market, but if you have enough it's taxed as a farm. About 10% of fair market tax. If they removed that, I'd get $3k added to the bill. Until the nearby new development kicks in with their average lot prices at $706k. Then that $3k could easily reach $6-8k. And the For Sale signs go up.
Lots of ways to pay for local services though. We endure some oddball taxes, like personal property and several taxes on vehicles.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
We were just re-assessed to 110 K. Have 1.2 acres. House is a storey and a half 22x30. Shop is 34x36 two storey with an attached 12x16 that I use for metal work. Separate outbuilding of 36 x 8 insulated, wired and heated. Just outside Hartland New Brunswick ( longest covered bridge in the world ) and more potatoes than I care to mention. Our tax bill for 07 ...............$ 707.68. We have all the amenities and conveniences we need ,along with peace and quiet. No traffic either. Whats not to love here.
Gary
Just outside Hartland New Brunswick ( longest covered bridge in the world ) and more potatoes than I care to mention. Our tax bill for 07 ...............$ 707.68.
Wow! And that's Can$$ too, right?
Where does your government get the money for all the services? Do you have a big sales tax? Heavy income tax? Business taxes?
Is that a single span bridge? Reason I ask, my parents place, where I grew up, had a covered bridge at the end of the property that was allegedly the longest single span in the country.Pennsylvania Dutch are notorious tale tellers, and don't get out much. Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
Google worlds longest covered bridge. All info and pics. Then show your Dutch friends (-:
Gary
Yours is far from single span, but it sure is long!Here's mine:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunsecker's_Mill_Covered_Bridgebut it, apparently isn't really the longest single span, either...Got wiped out in '72 when a bridge up river got loose and rammed it. They rebuilt it, but forgot to put my initials in there<G> Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
Thanks for the ref. Nice to see a part of our heritage maintained.
Gary
In Ann Arbor, Michigan we're paying $4,000 on a house with an actual market value of aound $325,000. So, that's a bit over 1%.
Hey, Gary, I think we pass by that bridge in New Brunswick every year on our way to and from our summer home in Newfoundland. Is it along the St. John river valley? Does it cross the St. John river? By the way, property taxes on our place in Nfld used to be $127 a year. Actually, it was just called a "poll tax" and everyone paid the same amount. They put in a municpal water system two years ago and raised our taxes to $750. Still, that's a pretty good deal.
Chip
You got it Chip. It does cross the St John river. You're still a longgggg way from Nfld if you can see that bridge. You are only 1/4 mile away. Next time thu you should go across just so you can say you did. The property taxes in this country I don't think are too far off from what you guys pay. Like you say about services not being what they are in cities. My property here in Hartland would draw big bucks if it were inside city limits as with most rural properties I'm sure.
Gary
Gary,
We will try to stop and see the bridge next June. Our only problem is that we usually try to make it all the way from Montreal to Amherst, Nova Scotia in one day. Doesn't leave a lot of time for sight-seeing. You do live in a pretty part of the world. The St. John river valley has a nice combination of agriculture and forest along with gently rolling hills. It reminds me a bit of the Berkshires in Massachusetts.
Chip
Chip
Why don't you send me an email and we can communicate that way. Saves taking up space in the forum for personal stuff. [email protected]
Gary
Sales tax was just lowered to 13%. Income tax is a percentage as is always. The higher your income the higher. My brother makes 110,000.00 anually and he pays roughly45-50 percent.
Everything here is taxed. Even your labor. You send a bill to a customer for say $ 900.00 . You have to add $ 117.00 on top. Final bill for labor only is $ 1017.00.
You sell a car to your neighbor. He has to declare to the motor vehicle registry how much he paid for it, then he pays 13% on top thennnnnn he can get his registration Two weeks later he sells it to his neighbor and the same process is repeated as many times as the same car is sold. Multiple taxes paid on the same car. You wonder were the money comes for health care....
Gary
OK, so the sales tax is almost double what it is in most U.S. states and income tax is a bit more too.
No sales tax on labor.
That thing about sales tax on resale of cars is the same here.
I live in the country, so it's county taxes... not a lot of services... but dang, after reading what some of you folks pay, I don't want them<G>Schools suck, but both our kids went part way through and still got into college.NC, 2100 sq', 4.57 ac., assessed value 228,748, .950/100 tax rate, $2173.11Then you got your volunteer fire for .050/100, $114.37Then, a basic fee (I don't even usually see this bill, so I've got to check this one out!) $37Rural curb fee (pick up MIXED recycling, way worth it) $26A little over 1%And, none of y'all want to move here cause we've got a really lousy basketball team. Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
We're paying ~1% of assessed value, ~.5% of market value.
Rural N.E. Wisconsin. Just under 3 acres, estimated fair market value $190,000, annual taxes about $3400.
School system is in terrible financial shape, county sherriff's department, is the law enforcement, and a volunteer fire dept. Don't even ask about the roads!
Brudoggie
My house, all 1800 sq. ft. of it, is worth about 375K, and my taxes are about $4,000 a year. My lot is about 80' x 250'.
But for the central Jersey area, the taxes in our town are pretty low. My mom's hoouse sold last year for 250K, and her taxes were over $6,000 for a 1,000 sq. ft. house on a 50' x 100' lot.
Shep,
I'm familiar with South Plainfield. I grew up Keyport. Parents now live in Marlboro. I went to Rutgers in New Brunswick. $4000 is damn low for that section of Jersey. Sister lives in Westfield and pays over 10K.
I'm in Hackettstown (Warren county)...(want to come install a roof vent? :-)
Anyway, ~1650 sq ft house, 1/2 renovated, market value is ~$365K, bought it for $194K in 2000. .22 acre lot. Taxes are $7300. Taxes were $5500 in 2000 when I bought the house.
NJ taxes are insane! Friend of mine in Mt. Olive (town next door) had a 2000 sq ft plus house, 1 acre with in ground pool, 1 more bedroom and 1 more garage. Same taxes! He has garbage collection, school bus service, and recycling built in to his taxes. I pay seperately for all of those and we have no school buses.
Westfield is phenominally high in taxes, but they don't have any industry to speak of, and also pump a lot of money into their schools. I have customers there who pay quite a bit more than 10K. Residents there don't seem to mind paying for a very good school system.
South Plainfield still has a pretty good industry base, which helps keep property taxes down. We also don't subsidize our schools nearly as much as Westfield.
Thanks for the job offer on the roof vent, but I don't do high wire acts anymore <G>
After reading about the property taxes in other places I don't think I will ever leave Nevada! The property tax on my house which appraised at 279,000 with the 1/2 acre lot is $2200 a year. And we don't have state income taxes!
This damn desert isn't so bad after all.
Larry
Boulder Colorado
7000 s.f. lot
house appraised at about $310,000
2007 taxes $1747.32
[email protected]
Eric, I guess this means you're planning a move, huh?
I can appreciate why you'd be doing that, if only to cash out on the capital gains credit and start over. That certainly makes sense as a way to stay ahead of the heavy property taxes but where are you going to live? Got another house picked out?
That was just an example of what is for sale and what the taxes are like here. Fixer upper over 500 a month in taxes for garbage pick up and a volunteer FD.
And an example of why what you did was the right thing to do.
I sarted life over at 45 or so and have found that I likely cannot afford to purchase decent housing in this area.
50 and renting....................[email protected]
I'm not very well informed about government subsidized loans but I know that there are more kinds of mortgages available for working people than you'd ever believe. Free down payment money, free home improvement money.
Large banks usually have one loan officer who is an expert on such government programs. I looked into it once, a few years ago, on behalf of a friend who is here on a green card with his wife and children. That's where I heard about the many ways there are for a working person to buy a fixer-upper.
It's all about getting your name on the deed.
We have that here it is under one agency check out these rates:http://www.ihfa.org/idamortgage/loan_program.aspWallyo
Edited 3/13/2008 11:32 pm ET by wallyo
$1300.00 / yr. in Oxford, OH for a 4 bedroom ranchburger.
Here the taxes would be around $1,600 for comparable.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Littleton, CO
"Actual Valuation" (so the county says) is $ 706,600. True market value is probably 800.
Full amount of property taxes = $ 4,520.32.
or 0.565% of market value.
Edited 3/14/2008 10:03 am ET by peteshlagor
Were north of Castle Rock,
Douglas County House built in 2001 190 sq.ft ranch, with 1900 walk out basement 3-car think were in the mid $400 range, taxes $2700 a year.
I will round up IMERC & we can do Coffee?
Kin I bring mah dog?
Just one?
Yeah. He stays nicely in the car.
Have not seen any responses from Ca. , so here goes;
house assessment- 289k, property tax- 4088
4 bed 3 bath on a city lot, house just apraised at about 2.7 times assessment.
Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
We've lived in CA and NJ. Ouch. The reason we haven't heard from anyone in CA is that there is a 2-tiered system. Many still own houses from pre-prop13 time frame, and are paying next to nothing. They, on the other hand are being subsidized by the ones paying for a new house with outrageous property tax rates. It's a huge spread, only worthy of CA. God bless 'em."The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
No. Westchester Co NY, My house is assessed at ht median # for the town- I pay just under 16K. Thats school , county,town, highway & fire.
I have neighbors who's bill is well over 100k.
You close to Yorktown Hts?
about 10 miles east- South Salem
"Maybe everyone in NJ should send a letter to the Gov when they move to another state and tell him they left because of taxes."
He doesn't care. We're the most populous/square mile state in the country and could stand to lose some population.
Our taxes are insane in central NJ. Won't even tell ;o)
Jeff
Riverside County, CA. I bought in 1996 for $169K, 2300 sq. ft, .8 acre, valued today at $850K, property taxes are $1850 yr. No snow, no ice, forcasted high today is 78, 22 miles to the beach, 21 miles to the mountain snow. But it takes an hour to drive the 22 miles and I am the only english speaking American citizen left!
Northern NJ (22 miles from NYC). 1400 Sq feet 4 bedroom, 2 bath. Lot 50x100, $400,000. Taxes $6,500
Planeman,
How far from Temecula Calif? I can tell you that some parts of California are pretty anglo. Places like Temecula for example or a lot of Towns on 15.
Property taxes there are prop 13 limited.. which is good if you are an old timer but not so good if you just moved there..
Can you tell me does prop 13 save you if you do remodeling?
I am about 20 north of Temecula off the 15. Prop 13 does not help if you remodel AND apply for a permit. This causes a lot of remodeling to be done "under the table" without permits. My home had a large addition put on with no permit and very substandard work. I had to almost completly re-build the addition to bring it up to code. But it wasn't included in the appraisal, so technically it wasn't in the sale price.
As soon as the property gets re-assessed by the county for permits, sale, etc, you lose the protection of prop 13. That is my understanding anyway, may not be 100% accurate, like most of my opinions.
Your right we do still have some pockets of Anglos left in so Cal.
Experienced, but still dangerous!
Because of prop 13,which for you non Californians was a property tax limitation measure voted on in 1978, property taxes on the same block are all over the place. I bought my place in San Bernardino county in 91 for 109,000 and taxes are $1366, the neighbor has a smaller place and pays $382 while an elderly couple across the street with a 2000 sq foot older home on a large lot pay $180. We sold my mother's place at the beach a couple of years ago at the height of the bubble and that poor sucker on 942 sq ft 2 bed 1 bath is paying over $9000 in property taxes.
Riverside County, CA....I am the only english speaking American citizen left!
Isn't that ironic!
Here in NH, paying around $4K on a house worth about $220K.
However, the only other tax most of us pay is the room & meals tax (restaurant & hotels, primarily) of 8%.
Although many feel we need a fairer system using either a sales or income tax, the fear is generally that adding one or the other wouldn't really decrease the property tax, but would just encourage increased spending.
Therefore, it's almost impossible for someone to get elected here without taking "THE PLEDGE" to not support the creation of any new taxes.
Don
The problem with over-reliance on the property tax is that it is arguably the most illogical means of distributing a tax burden. When your tax is based on some (hopefully reasonable) estimate of what some other guy is willing to pay you for your house, as predicted by recent sales of similar homes in your area, you're essentially paying a tax based on that other guy's buying power.You would think that when a person retires or becomes disabled his share of the tax burden would be reduced, and that those making big bucks would pay accordingly more. That's how the federal tax is done. Imagine having a federal real estate property tax. It isn't federal taxes that force people out of their homes; it's local property taxes.Someone earlier in this thread ventured the thought that perhaps the states with bigger cities had bigger real estate tax burdens. To some extent, this could be true. As cities grow in population, and their inhabitants move out to suburbia, prices on those suburban homes are driven upward. So folks move even further out. Towns that were fairly rural 30 years ago become more developed as families with young kids move in. Suddenly the schools aren't big enough, and there isn't enough industry in town to pay the cost.A couple, retired or just old enough so that their kids have flown the nest, don't impose much burden on the town as far as services go. A young couple with just one kid in the school system just about pays for that kid's education with his RE tax. Two kids, or more?? Financially that's a disaster for the town, when multiplied by lots of new families.That gives rise to the usual battle between younger people, who want the town to build more and more of this and that, and who can afford the tax increase, and the retired folks, who can't afford any more. Yet the economic situation of the retired couple, who may be trying to get by on social security and maybe a small pension, has no bearing on the RE tax they pay. If a retired guy's house is valued the same as the one next door, in which live say a couple, both highly paid professionals and with four kids in school, he pays the same tax. Eventually the retired guy has to sell out, the house is bought by someone with yet more kids, and the town is hit even harder.Then there is the fact that in more densely populated regions there will be more interactions between people, more conflict, more regulation, more crime, and more entrenched political interests. Everything becomes more expensive to do.I know, I'm ranting. Someone else take over.
No question it's an unfair way to pay for essentially all the services we get - about 80% of our property taxes go for schools, the rest for town government & services.
However, most of us don't believe that adding another tax will actually bring the property taxes down, but just result in more overall tax burden.
Interestingly, for many NH towns, today was the annual Town Meeting. One of the articles up for discussion in many towns was a non-binding referendum asking our officials to NOT take "The Pledge". Fortunately, this was the last item on the agenda, & a quick-thinking citizen moved to table the issue. This was quickly approved by 2/3 of those present, avoiding a long rehash of the same arguments which haven't gotten us anywhere in the past.
Don
Once the a tax is increased percentage wise it never seems to be decreased. Our sales tax was increased temporary few years back due to a short fall from 5% to 6% for 6 months or so the promise was it was temporary, then it went back to 5%. Well the new governor seemed to like the 6% so it went back up. The problem I have is any percentage tax is self adjusting for inflation prices go up 4% on cars the tax revenue is up four percent it self adjusts politician like us to think otherwise.Think about this one you build a house everything is sales taxed that goes into it, after it is built it is taxed as a whole over and over and over again. In essence you are taxed on tax.Wallyo
Edited 3/15/2008 5:01 pm ET by wallyo
102152.83 in reply to 102152.82
I did not realize this till after my last post, my sister who lives in Jersey has been looking at some heating work, I have been looking over some of the paper work for her and did not get to it till today. NJ has a certificate of Exempt Capital Improvement which exempts a homeowner from paying sales tax on certain improvements. Some of which are in ground pool, tilted bath, new bath fixture new heating system new construction of house and garage etc. It is easier to include what is not on the list landscaping, Installing carpet flooring and alarms, there is probably more as these are examples. Now what is not quite clear is this sales tax on materials and labor or just labor that is exempt.Does anyone from NJ have more info, out of three contractors involved only one provided the forms that was the asbestos abatement contractor.Wallyo
2.2% here in Central NH. Fortunately most of my 32 acres is in the Current Use program. It's certainly a minor form of feudalism to the State. Freeholding of property was one of the major issues in the Magna-Charta era, but we seem to have lost it. I'd rather see a consumption-based tax, but I'll live with no state income and sales taxes as my overall taxload is comparatively low (still a double-digit percentage of my net). A Constitutional requirement to limit any of the above would be great too.
You would think that when a person retires or becomes disabled his share of the tax burden would be reduced, and that those making big bucks would pay accordingly more.
In my town in NH, anyway, we have tax abatements for elderly and disabled, with income tests.
That gives rise to the usual battle between younger people, who want the town to build more and more of this and that, and who can afford the tax increase, and the retired folks, who can't afford any more.
There's some of that, but I've got one kid about to enter Kindergarten and one that will in a few years, and I'm all for slashing the school budgets. I don't believe our kids get as good a public education as was had in one-room schoolhouses. We need more rigor, expectation and enlightened curricula, not money.
Also the husband of a schoolteacher, and I'm all for year-round schooling, so we can pay teachers more but need fewer of them. Less than 1% of the schoolchildren here help with a harvest.
If you are buying a house and are moving to a new area what is one of the first questions a couple with kids ask the agent or checks into, it is how is the school district. A good district that pays well is going to attract better teachers, why because the more the pay is the more applicants you are going to have. With more applicants you get to choose the cream of the crop the top dog. A better district more home demand, higher home prices, which may cause higher taxes. It is a vicious cycle my friends. I also think cops and fireman are under paid as well as most of the regulars in the army.If any one thinks this tread is Hijacked in most areas property taxes pay for schools.What would be interesting to see would be some line item break downs of some tax bills what each portion is going towards, most people just pay the thing and have no idea where each dollar is going. I can post mine later this week need to dig the thing out.Wallyo
Edited 3/18/2008 10:15 pm ET by wallyo
Interesting news in today's paper. Assessments declined an average of 1% from last year. So they're raising the rate 4 1/2%. The teacher lobby wins again.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I know first hand what a teachers pay is I am married to one, Believe me we are not rolling in cash. We do our own taxes and I know how much goes from our pocket back to the school district in the form of a donation because they will not buy the needed supplies or some families do not have enough money to buy their kids notebooks and my wife buys them.Let me put this in terms all can understand you have sitting there a pile of quarter sawn oak and you want some built ins, but you can not afford to buy glue, screws or nails because you are the school district. That is the situation teachers are put in every day across this country but they step in and buy the glue, screw and nails themselves, but it is paper, pencils and books. Some might say that is due to the fact that the teachers are sucking in all the cash in form of pay. Look at how many admin people your district has and how much they are paid, some districts are overflowing with management people, and can hire three and four starting teachers with what the one admin person is paid.You don't say what state the teachers union WON in AGAIN.Wallyo
Off my head I would say Virginia, since it was VATom.
The teachers union is constantly winning more and more pay for their part-time jobs.
You know what it pays when you start, which is more than most people here know.
BTW, most subs do furnish nails, screws and glue on the job.
As long as teachers buy these supplies, the school district won't. Stop buying and they will provide it. But I'll bet thats nothing to do with the teachers union.
Subs can roll the cost of there supplies into the job, Teaches do get a tax deduction for what they buy but, given the tax deduction or the money in my pocket I would take the money. You try telling a teacher that she should go with out and wait till the district buys it. That will happen when pigs fly. Tell a teacher her job is part time when she is spending four hour of her weekend time on a letter of recommendation to get you daughter, niece or grand son into college. When she spends 2 hours of her time after school with parents and councilors because your kid was writing out a plan for suicide, happened 3 weeks ago the student went to a phsyc hospital, the threats to take her own life were real. How about this Christmas when she spent extra time getting food for a family of a student who was too proud to ask for help because the dad just died the mom was not working due to the fact that she just had a baby. How a about the hours she spent in the class room on the weekend grading papers. The point is teachers do not have to do those things, but they have a heart. My wife could make more money in the private sector but chooses not to because she likes kids. She has four certifications Spanish, advance placement spanish, Japanese and US government. and is worth 57,000 a year. Teachers are there for the benefit of society, that is why it is mandated to provide a state education for free, they fill in where many parents left off. The average teachers pay is 47,000 in the fine state of Virgina, Norfork has top pay at 66,000 a year as of july 1, 2007.Norfolk Public Schools
Approved Salary Scales for Teachers
Effective July 1, 2007
10 Month
Step No Degree (Grade 01)
Bachelors
Degree
(Grade 03)
Masters
Degree
(Grade 05)
Masters
plus 30
Hours
(Grade 06)
Doctoral
Degree
(Grade 07)
0 29,744.00 35,027.00 37,986.00 39,552.00 41,269.00
1 30,825.00 36,077.00 39,036.00 40,602.00 42,319.00
2 31,936.00 37,158.00 40,117.00 41,683.00 43,400.00
3 33,088.00 38,269.00 41,228.00 42,794.00 44,511.00
4 34,269.00 39,420.00 42,380.00 43,945.00 45,662.00
5 35,481.00 40,602.00 43,561.00 45,127.00 46,844.00
6 36,734.00 41,814.00 44,773.00 46,339.00 48,056.00
7 38,016.00 43,076.00 46,036.00 47,601.00 49,318.00
8 39,350.00 44,369.00 47,329.00 48,894.00 50,611.00
9 40,713.00 45,692.00 48,652.00 50,217.00 51,934.00
10 42,127.00 47,066.00 50,025.00 51,591.00 53,308.00
11 43,571.00 48,480.00 51,439.00 53,005.00 54,722.00
12 45,066.00 49,934.00 52,894.00 54,459.00 56,176.00
13 46,611.00 51,429.00 54,388.00 55,954.00 57,671.00
14 48,197.00 52,974.00 55,934.00 57,499.00 59,216.00
15 49,823.00 54,560.00 57,519.00 59,085.00 60,802.00
16 51,510.00 56,196.00 59,156.00 60,721.00 62,438.00
17 53,237.00 57,883.00 60,842.00 62,408.00 64,125.00
18 54,834.00 59,619.00 62,667.00 64,280.00 66,049.00Here is the link for Norfolk pay scales http://ww2.nps.k12.va.us/education/components/docmgr/default.php?sectiondetailid=83299Here is the State board averages by district http://www.doe.virginia.gov/VDOE/Finance/Budget/reports.htmlI have two teachers in my life, Don't tell me they are over paid, volunteer in a classroom if you have not done so then say a teacher is over paid.
School is 180 days a year in most states. That is 6 months. How is that not part time?
That teachers union could certainly do something about supplies instead of buying a lobbyist at the capitol.
The other stuff is part of the job.
Cat fish 180 divided by 5 equals 36 weeks of school, there are 52 weeks a year that is not 6 months. Six months would be 26 weeks. You don't get it and never will. PLus their work week is more then 40 hours a week if you worked more then 40 a week you would like to see something more $$'s for your time. If the other stuff is part of the job they should be paid for it. But you will not get it. If you want something to complain of how about the CEO making 130 million a year and losing money and still gets a bonus. Wallyo
Hey Wallyo,
Just what you say! You tell em!
Also, the husband of a teacher,
Chip
Once again, she chose it. I don't complain about working conditions and what I do. It comes with the job. If its hot, its hot. If I lose my butt by underbidding, I take it in the shorts, no one else.
I get it completely. No one thinks they make enough money. Not the carpenter, the roofer or the trim guy.
My brother is a coach. He quit teaching and only coaches because teaching cut into athletics. If its not enough money, simply quit and do something else
I don't have to get on breaktime to try and learn what I can, but I think its part of my job to learn what I can about construction other than my specific trade. Let me assure you, that is uncompensated time.
I and she are not complaining about her pay I am just stating the facts.
No, its the scope of work.
""Once again, she chose it. "" Quit belly aching,. Choose it for yourself if it is all that hot a deal. You seem to be forgetting you have that choice and the choice to not do what you are doing.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Hit your button, eh? If you'd looked at my profile, you'd see central Virginia, even if you didn't understand my name.
I was raised by public school teachers, most of my family are now. All complain about being underpaid. I don't buy it. Matter of fact, I've never met a teacher who didn't complain about compensation. A few do leave to try the private market. Some better themselves.
That's as it should be, in my view.
Teaching pay is much like any other profession. If you can't get adequate applicants for the position, you need to offer more. Here, there's no shortage of applicants that I've heard. Other than the obvious: science, math. Comparisons don't impress me much. Applicants do.
What happened here recently was the elected school board deciding to submit a budget to the county supervisors considerably in excess of the money they knew was available. Some parents and the teachers were yelling very loudly. The board of supervisors caved.
Teacher salaries, the far largest part of the school board budget increase, is the reason for my taxes going up 4 1/2%. Ergo, the teacher lobby won. As I said in the first place.
And I vote.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I got that you were form VA but, you never said you were referring to a local case where the Union won. I asked state should of asked what state and district are you were referring to. I did not assume you were talking local.Wallyo
Edited 3/18/2008 10:18 pm ET by wallyo
OK, but I did say "today's paper". No mention of which one would lead many to infer it was local. Wouldn't capitalize union, though. Far as I know, they aren't formally organized here. Lobby was the word I used.
Or did I miss your mild attempt at humor? As in War of Northern Agression/Union.
Taxes are serious. And I wasn't raised here, or anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon. Schools here are treated seriously. One of our attractions (sans kids) was the incredibly wide support of alternative education. Pretty much every flavor, in a small community. Supported on top of parents' property taxes. Spoke well of the community.
If not local government. The lobby I understand, like every other, in their best interest. Solely.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Tom I took you for a New York Times or Wall Street Journal type of guy. Nothing implied by union or capitalization of it just was too tired to scroll back to look at what you said at the start and I installed a new browser version and FHB's spell check does not like it so I have to take care of spelling and capitalization myself improper capitalizing is not caught.
Wallyo
Edited 3/19/2008 1:09 am ET by wallyo
One more thing, in NY the teachers are in classrooms for 6 hours per day
The unions have now negotiated 2 periods a day that teachers are supposed to prepare for their classes.
Pretty good job!!!
My 2 cents
I have 3 teachers or former teachers in my family.
36 weaks is not a full year of work except if you are a teacher.
The normal person outside of teaching does not have tenure or anythung like it.
Tenure came about to ensure that teachers had a job from school year to the next.
It also came about to give teachers a benifit that most of us could not dream of, to make up for low salerys(SP)
Most teachers in upstate NY have summer jobs.
If you add up there generous saleries for 36 weaks of work and their part time jobs, it ain"t too bad
We won't mention the benifits they recieve, that no one in private business can afford.
I had the chance to go into teaching but didn't. I get very jealous of my classmates from college who are now beginning to retire.
NYS retirement: highest 3 years salery averaged x's 2% for every year of teaching. Most districts include lifetime medical in their retirement packages.
In conclusion, teachers are not underpaid when taking their entire benifit package into consideration.
Frammer,
Thanks for those addition facts; I'll have to do some figuring to see how "poor" some of my teacher friends will be now that they are retiring at age 53!
Keep in mind, however, that Wallyo is in Idaho, where things are likely very different from here in upstate N.Y.
BTW, did you know that our current governor (when he was in the state legislature) proposed legislation that would entitle NYS teachers to unemployment benefits during their summers off?
I'm done with this hijack now!
Allen
Hey did you hear that he addmitted having an affair?
Talking about getting ahead of the curve.
Wallyo,
Teachers salaries vary tremendously, state-to-state. VaTom is in Virginia, and I suspect it's like New York (where I am). The schools are well-supplied, and the teachers well-paid.
In my rural area, where a nice home is still under $100K, tenured teachers earn $70K to over $90K a year, with full medical coverage. School administrators earn $100K to $120K. Teachers often retire in their early 50s, and then draw pensions that are a very high percentage of their last year's salary ... they also continue to have medical coverage, and pay no state income tax on their pensions.
The average family income in this area is about $30K.
Allen
If you can get us the name of that district because if a top teacher is making 90,000 and mean income is 30,000 we need to think of relocation.Wallyo
Wallyo,
I have a lot of respect for teachers, and could never handle that job myself, no matter the pay. I know that historically, and still in many areas of the country, teachers were/are underpaid.
But, as requested, here are the figures for Barker Central School District in Niagara County, N.Y.:
Top teacher salary: $94,098.
Median teacher salary: $54,405
25 percent of the teachers earn more than $78,964.
Median household income in Barker (most recent Census): $37,414
Median single-family home value in Barker (most recent Census): $75,700.
The most recent Census was 2000; current estimates for median household income and median home value are $43,300 and $83,900, respectively. In my previous post, I was a little low in my recollection of family incomes, but I think the rest of my figures were quite accurate!
Remember, too, to take into account the premium health insurance and pension packages the teachers have here. Top-of-the line insurance, completely paid for by the district.
There are many beautiful homes here, so it might be worthwhile investigating a relocation. This is a fine homebuilding site, afterall, and in the past I have posted links to some stunning (and very affordable) historic homes currently on the market here.
Here, also, is a link that gives salaries in most school districts in New York State:
http://www.myshortpencil.com/newyorkteachersalaries.htm
Best to you and your wife,
Allen
Thanks for the link. Now I can better appreciate why my school taxes are so high.
The 94,00 you quoted is for the top teacher which he states:Top_Sal is the highest salary earned by a teacher in the district. Sometimes this teacher may also have administrative duties.Wallyo
How would you know?
The link was to teachers salary not admin..
I did not provide the link here it is again http://www.myshortpencil.com/newyorkteachersalaries.htmscroll to Barker Central :Bottom tier is 34,000 probably what a teacher with a four year degree would make first year.
Average is 59,000
A top tier teacher would earn 81,000 5% earn this it is probably the max on experience plus PHD.Read the notes at the top of the page on how to read this tableHow to read the table: 5th, 25th, . . . 95th refer to percentiles. In a district of 100 teachers, the 5th percentile salary is the salary earned by the teacher whose pay is 5th from the bottom. In a district of 200 teachers, the 5th percentile salary is the salary earned by the teacher whose pay is 10th from the bottom. Teachers earning salaries at or below the 5th percentile typically have less than two years of teaching experience.
The 50th percentile salary is the same as the median salary (not the average salary). It is the salary earned by the teacher whose salary is exactly in the middle, between the lowest and highest salaries. Teachers near the 50th percentile typically have 8 to 13 years of experience, but it really depends on the distribution of teacher experience and the number of steps on the salary schedule in each school district.Count refers to the number of teachers in the school district. Code is NY's district code. The first 2 digits of the 6-digit district code equates to the county code. "01" is Albany and the rest follow sequentially in alphabetical order.College is the average number of years of college the teachers in the district have. 4 is equivalent to a Bachelors degree and 5 a Masters degree. NY teachers are required to have Masters degrees, with exceptions for the first few years of teaching and for teachers grandfathered in after the change.A_Exp is the average number of years of teaching experience of teachers in the district.Avg_Sal is the average salary earned by teachers in the district.Top_Sal is the highest salary earned by a teacher in the district. Sometimes this teacher may also have administrative duties.Out of state teachers are welcome to stop by anytime, scan the numbers and dream of a life with salaries like these. However, I cannot be responsible for any adverse consequences including pathological envy, depression, labor unrest, job dissatisfaction, or firings for wasting time or misusing computers at work. NY teachers who feel under-appreciated are welcome to scan the salaries of Louisiana teachers. If the top tier is earning 81,000 a person earning 94,000 probably does have some admin duties. I do not know the district Might be a small school where the principle is need only part time, might be a larger school where it is a part time vice P. MIght be the school system Athletic director from 3-5pm. Again I did not write the chart, just reading it as instructed. He published this and gets people in a huff that teachers are making a 100,000 a year not outlying why they are getting it. My wife makes a whopping $800.00 extra for being a language dept head a year at her high school.What is better is to call your district and ask for a teachers pay chart. It has years taught on the left, education level at the top from 4 year to PHD, then to trust figures from a second source that may be skewed one way or another. Same way I would not post facts from the NEA they might be skewed in there favor. The facts I got for Norfolk came right from the district's web site.Here is our districts pay scale:INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT OF BOISE CITY
BOISE, IDAHO
Basic Salary Schedule (Index $25,501)
2007-2008
I II III IV V VI VII VIII
YRS. EXP. BA BA+9 BA+15 BA+30 BA+45 or MA MA+9 MA+15 MA+30
0 31,000 31,301 31,604 31,909 32,234 32,547 34,174 35,883
1 31,301 31,604 31,909 32,234 32,547 34,174 35,883 37,677
2 31,604 31,909 32,234 32,547 34,174 35,883 37,677 39,561
3 31,909 32,234 32,547 34,174 35,883 37,677 39,561 41,539
4 32,234 32,547 34,174 35,883 37,677 39,561 41,539 43,616
5 32,547 34,174 35,883 37,677 39,561 41,539 43,616 45,797
6 34,174 35,883 37,677 39,561 41,539 43,616 45,797 48,087
7 35,883 37,677 39,561 41,539 43,616 45,797 48,087 50,491
8 37,677 39,561 41,539 43,616 45,797 48,087 50,491 53,016
9 39,561 41,539 43,616 45,797 48,087 50,491 53,016 55,667
10* 41,539 43,616 45,797 48,087 50,491 53,016 55,667 58,450
11** 48,087 50,491 53,016 55,667 58,450 61,373
54,606
Career Step** 64,442
*For initial placement on this schedule, teachers new to the District may not be placed higher than the eleventh step.**See Article XX, D: After being on the eleventh step of the MA+30 lane for two years, professional employees will be advanced to the career step.Credits earned beyond the BA Degree and which are in the field of education, or toward an advanced degree, or in the individual's major/minor field of study will be recognized for placement and/or advancement on the salary schedule, except for those credit hours required by the State Department of Education for initial teacher certification. For placement on the salary schedule at the MA + level, credits earned must be subsequent to a Masters degree received after initial state certification. In the case of a professional employee who has accepted an extra-curricular assignment, physical education credits shall be recognized for the advancement on the salary schedule, regardless of the professional employee's major or minor field, with the following provisions: [1] athletic coaches may only count credits which are identified as physical education credits on the official transcript; [2] no more than three physical education credits will be used for advancement on the salary schedule; and [3] only physical education credits earned after being employed by the Boise School District may be used for advancement on the salary schedule.Note: In determining the education factor, only credits earned after the initial certification, shall be allowed. Salary schedule reflects early career increments as per Article XX in the Master Contract.Application CenterWallyo
Edited 3/19/2008 12:46 pm ET by wallyo
I see nothing that changes my mind. I doubt many work the 40
Catfish before you complain, get a break down of what portion of your property tax bill does go to the schools it does vary from state to state but it may be less then you think it may be a lot more. As you can see from my bill not a cent goes to the state, in some it does.Wallyo
About 35% of the bill goes to the schools. I believe teaching for a lot of people is a choice of love, not money.
30,000 is more than a lot of people make in a year. Half the people in America probably make less than that. That is $15 an hour.
My son will start his professional career there after 4 years of school.
Catfish your son planning on going into teaching? My wife has talked to me about teaching I can not do it 30 different little minds trying to keep them focused. I might be able to do college, Maybe, maybe high school elementary forget it. Then again wood shop does not exist here.Wallyo
no, Suddath Van Lines, where he already works full-time offered him an entry-level position in sales I guess. He is very hard to get informatiion out of.
They lease space to major department stores. Jacksonville, FL is the headquarters. At least one person he knows is making a pretty good living at it.
Woodshop would be impossible nowdays. When I took it, 1973, the teacher took the guard off the tablesaw and told us to pay attention.
Here is my Property bill break down from 2006 1100sf Boise IdahoBoise City 347.94
School #1 M&O 214.96
School #1 Bond 39.28
School #1 supplmnt 44.36
School #1 other 1.41
Ada County 162.20
Ada County Highway 60.50
Emergency Medical 7.19
Mosquito Abatement 1.75
Dry Creek Cemetery 0.51
Drainage Dist #2 5.50Less then 300.00 goes to schools out of a total or 885.60Wallyo
Mosquito Abatement 1.75Dry Creek Cemetery 0.51
Hummmmm. I guess indicates a belief in the squeaky wheel theory of budgeting.
The Mosquito Abatement is of concern since we are real cautious of West Nile Virus. First it was livestock, horses mainly, now several human cases a session. There is a vaccine for the horses.Dry Creek good name for a western cemetery. It is city owned don't know why that one gets the rider and the other two city owned do not?Wallyo
Dry Creek good name for a western cemetery. It is city owned don't know why that one gets the rider and the other two city owned do not?
Maybe the rider is a spook named Skeeter who lived on the Nile in a former life. ;-)
Less then 300.00 goes to schools out of a total or 885.60
Is your assesment low, high , or average for your area?
What does it cost your school district per student per year?
My assesment is right at the average and shcool tax alone last year was a little over 11k, but I must be getting a bargain because they spend over 20 k per student.
Guess I shoulda had more kids so I could really clean up.
JAY I will check with my wife she may know cost per student, Also we are building 4 new grade schools two new junior highs, and one alternative school for the BAD kids, forget if that is a junior high or High school or both. These are to replace existing schools not due to need because of growth. Land swaps and sales are part of it 4 smaller grade schools become 2 larger schools. Plus the high school my wife is teaching at is getting a new gym and some classrooms they are almost done. My daughters' grade school is to close in a year and half to be gutted and rebuilt. Their school will move to the current Alternative school when the new Alternative school is done. This is on the 40.00 bond charge.On top of that there are several charter schools, I don't agree with them but that is another story.Wallyo
Sounds like your area is doing alot.
Who is paying for it? It is obviously not coming from the property taxes.
The improvements are from the bond mostly I showed on my bill, There may also be some state money in there don't know if income tax or sales is the source. Then there is the Land Board, it holds tracts of state land set aside years ago, the proceeds of which are to go to education, through timber sales, land leases etc. It must generate the most $$$ from the land it can, It is hard for it to sell any holdings. Interesting one State university leases some land at a resort lake town, their lease is coming for renew, the land board wants to raise their lease to market value. We are talking a difference of 100,000 a year verses 700,000 a year, the university may not be able to afford it and may give up the lease. They have biological, environmental, and forestry programs there, run a week long camp for grade school kids that almost all 6 grades in the state attends during the school year for a week. MY eldest has been twice.Wallyo
NYS tax bills are in 3 installments. Jan county, june city or town, oct. school.
In my district, one of the poorest in NY state our school tax bill would have been 900 last year, except for exemptions
This is on a 2800 sq. ft. house assesed at 48000, actual value of 60000.
Just curious, I have not lived in too many areas ID and NJ and as we are finding out there is a variation on taxes and how they are collected. Does one agency collect all three installments or does each installment get paid to each agency?. In other words does June's get paid right to the city, if you still have a mortgage you may not know. The only reason I ask is there could be a lot of repetition in the collection accounting process, not that it means much just curious.Last question you say your bill would of been 900 for school what did it come out to?Wallyo
Edited 3/20/2008 9:48 am ET by wallyo
everybody collects their own.
-0- ohboy
NYS tax bills are in 3 installments. Jan county, june city or town, oct. school.
Not that it's a big deal but other NYS counties do it differently. In Orange and Sullivan counties the State, County, Town tax bill is sent out on the first of January. The school tax bill is sent out on the first of September.
The January tax is received by the Town's tax collector, until that bill goes delinquent, about six months later. Then it goes to the County Clerk or County Treasurer, depending on how the county has it set up.
The school taxes work much the same way, the school district's tax collector receiving those taxes until they become delinquent.
I don't think I'd like it any better if it was three installments. :-)
Edited 3/20/2008 11:40 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
You bring up the point I was trying to make a duplication of process town collector, school collector, county if pass due! What a waste of effort! Here it all goes straight to the county all the little checks, then they divide it up and write one big check to each agency. taxes due 12/31 in one payment or 12/31 and 6/31 in two. Much more stream lined.Wallyo
Wally
The town and school tax collector is a low paying, part time job. It's almost always done by a stay-at-home mom with experience in book keeping. She receives taxes by mail or in person, at her home during specific times each week.
It's done that way in order to avoid hiring full time help at the county level.
Edited 3/20/2008 12:05 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Not picking on you by any means but that is true small town living. Here even a town of 20 we have them, you pay to your county.
Local tax collector is a hold-over from the days when these counties were very rural dairy farming areas. People often paid their taxes in cash because the nearest bank was in a town which they seldom visited.
It's always surprised me that these women continue to follow the tradition of receiving taxes in person at their home.
However I do understand the economy of scale in having a part timer do this job.
Why would you hire someone full time at the county level to do a job which is part time and only lasts for a few months each year? The county clerks are in a civil service position with all kinds of protective rules and benefits.
The clerks here handle other items during the year, car registration plates, collections, if a business, property tax on items like capital equipment, accounting, county plats and surveys, homeowner's exemptions, circuit breaker for low income over 65. Every time I have been there, there is a line not long but a line, and I am not there only at tax time. It is a pretty big county sq mile wise.Wallyo
around here, you mail your taxs to a bank.
my understanding is that they do this for free.
By the way, you have discovered why taxes are higher in NY.
Everybody has their own power base.
School districts in NY are not county based as are most states.
Again we pay for an awful lot of duplication of services.
IE. I live in a city that is growing in pop.. Surrounding the city are suburban school districts that have lost pop.. We have to build new classrooms to accomodate this kids.
Meanwhile, there are many open spots in schools next to us.
Some schools within 1000 feat in 2 diff. districts!
Wild huih!!!
Oh I forgot to mention, the local share of building new classrooms is -0-
We live in a poor district, therefor we recieve extra state aid.
We spend around 11000/student, one of the lowest amounts in NY
Hudson valley told us his district spends 20000/student
There are large disparities in spending throughout the state....
Hudson valley told us his district spends 20000/student
Nope. I don't know how much my district is spending per student. You dis-membered who told you that.
sorry, I'm to lazy to look back!
sorry, I'm to lazy to look back!
Seein' how's you dis-membered him, I can understand you not wanting to look back!
;-)
I'm about sick of this thread!
I know how you feel. Property taxes always do that to me.
The key in NY is the star exemptiom and rebate for school property taxes.
Shall we confuse him by trying to explain these programs to him?
Hoe about, senoir low income, veterens exemptions?
Shoot now I'm even confused!!
You can do me a favor, tell me where to find information on all that stuff. I'm not sure where I fit into some of those programs.
Confused? Yes! But willing to wade through hours of legal language to get a break on my property taxes.
Edited 3/20/2008 3:59 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
star program- local tax assoror
rebate- only if the powers that be in NY decide to grant us one this year
Most programs, through your local assoror.
They all have some income guidelines, must be residence etc.
You might find it at NYS.GOV, I'm not sure.
So you pay it then get a rebate back, sounds like what NJ does. Idaho we get it off the top senior, home owner occupied.Wallyo
I would like to know what taxes are in OR since no sales tax?
Appraised Taxable value- $118,456 (Real Value maybe 235,000) Total prop. Tax $1,907.40 (Assumes a 3% discount if total payment is paid by Nov. 15, If you pay in the allowed 3 payments then the total would be $1966.41) Break down : Community College 74.14 School Bonds : $346.30
Regional ESD 35.15
Local School Dis. 491.52 Total Edu. $600.81 + $346.30 = $947.11
General Taxes
Library 9.69
City 594.65
County 314.74 Total= 919.08
City bond 100.20 Total = 100.20
City just passed a fee collected at the time of issuance of building permits that will be collected and used to help pay for schools as well.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
It seem without that sales tax you get hit harder in property tax then we do in the great state of Idaho. our assessed value is 146,000 it gets knocked down by about 50,000 due to the home owners exemption so we pay 938 in taxes.We own a building lot it is assessed at 189,000 no house no HO exemption so we pay about 1700 in taxes. That is quite a bond rider on yours, almost ten times ours, hope they are doing some good with it. Don't know if you saw it I posted a complete breakdown of my taxes some time back.Wallyo
A few years back, in the June or July issue I think of Kiplinger's magazine, they did a survey of all 50 states, plus D.C. as a 51st, totalling up taxes paid by a hypothetical retired couple living in the capital city of each state, in a house valued at average for each area, and taking advantage of any tax breaks for folks that age in the state.The worst ten states in the nation all had in common very high property taxes. "Tax-free" New Hampshire was among them, at 46. Maine, with also an income tax and sales tax, was better, at 44. "Taxachusetts," just to the south, was barely above the median, at position 29. Worst was Pennsylvania, if I remember correctly. FL and NY weren't too bad. I imagine the rankings have changed since then.They made the point that things would vary widely within any given state, from town to town. But the main point they were trying to make was that in considering a move to any state, or within a state, a retired couple (or probably anyone) shouldn't ignore property tax. It could be the killer.Some would say it's a matter of getting what you pay for. Others would just say its all a matter of how the city or town budget is distributed among the taxpayers (property value, sales, income, business vs. residential, etc.). I'll say again (at risk of flame), basing your share of the load on someone else's buying power (value of your house) makes little sense today. But we're stuck with it.
Thats not quite accurate.
You apply for star exemption(certain amount of assesedvalue tax exempt)
You only get rebate when they decide to give us one. I'm going to confuse you now. You don't need to pay taxes to qualify for rebate.
These 2 programs were enacted to relive the property tax burden.
Most of school spending in NY, is paid by the state. Except in high wealth districts, where they are free to spend whatever they want.
This is being challenged in court as are a lot of state deals.
Love the star exemption, don't understand it, but it saves me about 1100 a year.
I am the one who's district spends north of 20k per student.
Itg actualy is simple. first 30000 in assesed value tax exempt.
That's the first time I've heard of a county clerk's office handling motor vehicles and other matters of a wider ranging nature. I guess it's a case of using different methods to achieve the same end, cost controls.
Another good example of keeping part time local government work away from the realm of civil service is Boss Hog's job driving a snow plow for his township. For him it's a part time, hourly wage job with zero benefits other than WC insurance.
In many localities the snow plow operators have to be hired as year-round full time employees of the town/village/county highway dept or public works dept. They get well paid but do little work during the other nine months of the year. Quite often they can be found in the break room/locker room in the town garage, playing cards.
This kind of abuse of the public trust leads to other forms of corruption too.
When they drive the snow plows during storms they often work overtime, adding another burden on the tax payer.
So the point of keeping certain jobs local and part time is an economy measure to benefit the property owners.
"The town and school tax collector is a low paying, part time job. It's almost always done by a stay-at-home mom ..."
In a couple of the counties where I have paid property tax in New York State , I've had to write the check payable to that lady (her name, not the town or county). Then either mail it or drive out to her house.
It's kind of quaint, but a little disconcerting at the same time!
In my current county, the Town Clerk receives the Town/County Tax payment, and the check is made out to the Town. A local bank handles in-person School Tax payments.
Allen
I wish there was a way of responding to three people at once.TO frammer, WNY and Hudson if you have a mortgage, one of you must, does the mortgage company collect taxes on a monthly bases and place in an escrow account till due and pay it for you to the lady?Wallyo
some do and some don't (escrow )
In a couple of the counties where I have paid property tax in New York State , I've had to write the check payable to that lady (her name, not the town or county). Then either mail it or drive out to her house.
Yep. I've got a tax bill right here which says;
MAKE CHECKS PAYABLE TO: Lisa Gagliano, with her address.
After nearly thirty-some years of writing checks to different women, I'm still mildly disconcerted and amused by it too. :-)
Edited 3/21/2008 6:13 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Hudson Valley Carpenter,
I've owned property in six counties in New York State, and my experience in all of them is the same as yours: County/Town tax in January, and School tax in September.
Also, my tax bills don't break down how the school tax money is spent, it just says "school tax." I tried to find, on-line, a breakdown of my school budget, but to no avail.
Prior to the school budget vote each year, however, we are provided with a pie chart showing proposed expenditures. In most districts, State Aid pays a large percentage of the total school budget, with local property taxes paying the rest. The percentage of State Aid depends on the relative "wealth" of the district, I believe.
BTW, here is the extent of breakdown available on my two tax bills (no sewer, water or lighting, but we now have trash pickup):
School Tax $1,654.42
Library Tax 132.17
County Tax 777.26
Town Tax 800.55
Fire District 100.40
Recycling/waste 140.00
Allen
Our sewer, trash, water is one bi-monthly bill not on our taxes. If a rental home, it is customary to make tenant pay it.
In NYS we support our schools.
The largest tax bill we get is from the school district.
I didn't need a primer in how to read the chart.
The school district I live in is not listed, but along with salery, a teacher gets, 5 sick days, 3 personal days, paid vacations(when school is not in session they are still paid) full medical ,90% family paid medical, dental, vision, and paid in full retirement.
On school days they are required to show up 15min. before students, during the day they recieve 2 classes to prepare or whatever, finish the day after students leave +30 min.
Now compare that to an equivalant private job.
Teachers are neither overworked or underpaid!!
Frammer was not trying to give a primer you asked"How would you know?The link was to teachers salary not admin.."I replied with my answer just giving the facts, again it was not me that posted the original link to My short pencil.I would still like to see some true tax bills from people in NY State or any other state broken down line by line not just a blanket statement X% goes to schools, don't get me wrong it I am not addressing it to you, just putting it out to all. MY percent will be smaller if not for two bond charges. Most people don't know their break down, the bank pays the taxes as terms of their loan, they may get a statement but never read it because it says "PAID" at the topThe problem with property taxes is they are based on a subjective value of a home. Your home goes up they, government gets more $$$$. They may not even need more but they get it regardless and will find a way to spend it. CA system is not the best but what may be needed is a hybrid system purchase price, +, but increase will not be above the rate of inflation or deflation. But even that is flawed , many have purchased at more then then house is worth now.I agree that if what you say is true teacher are pretty well cared for in parts of NYS. I would like to see a actual NYS district salary table not from a second source, tried to fine one online and could not the districts do tend to hide them. Wallyo
Rural upstate New York:
2000 sq foot home, full-value assessment of $98K, total property taxes of $3,600.
That $3,600 is about equally split between Town/County and School taxes.
Compared to the property you're looking at, there are two ways to compare: The tax rate here is nearly twice as high. But the homes are similar (in size, anyway), and we're paying only about 2/3rds as much.
Allen
Another Central New Jersey sob story -
3br, 2 bth colonial, detached garage, 100'x100' lot - paid 415K in 2006 (assessed 399+/-)
Taxes were $7,600 last year. Sounds like a pretty good potential deal for you. I'm drooling over the three acres alone... Couldn't imagine what our taxes would be around here for something like that.
I wonder how much of that is going to schools, etc.
In New York they give us a pie chart with dollar figures and percentages, every year with our tax bills. It doesn't make me feel any better about getting a higher bill every year but at least I know where the $$ are spent.
You'd think that there must be a lot of infrastructure being paid for, like new school buildings, when your taxes are that high.
Do you have a lot of tax exempt housing with big families or big trailer parks or anything else you can point to that would explain the high taxes?
I don't remember the exact pie chart but school taxes are definitely the overwhleming majority. Anyone up on current NJ politics (sorry if you are) knows the typical woes...
Fraud, waste, corruption, etc... Our little town is a complete sending district for school kids (no schools of our own) so that doesn't help either. But the problem with the high taxes is much more of a problem at the state level (see fraud, waste, corruption, above), not so much at the local. You'd be surprised how little return on our invetment we see in the way of infrastructure, etc. Just a higher tax bill each year.
One of the interesting things being dicsussed lately is the fact the we have 616 school districts (23 of which don't have any schools), each (typically) with a well-paid superintendant, all the requisite local staffing, etc., all with lifetime pensions and benefits...
Basically, we're screwed long into the future (did I mention the fraud, waste, and corruption?). Since we only have 21 counties, many are saying there should be one "school district" per county. Imagine the (eventual) savings. It's a lot harder to pay off all the cronies, though.
Sorry if too local, but just a glimpse into what's going on around here.
Kevin,
That's pretty much what I expected. I've worked often enough in Northern NJ to have heard about it's pervasive corruption. And, let's face it, NYC and the mob had that kind of influence on a lot of the surrounding area and it's politics for many generations.
So it gradually moved up the Hudson to Albany and throughout NJ to Trenton.
It's hard to fight crime, even if you really want to, when everyone else is on the take or peddling their influence for favors from constituents.
$360K paid $7,400.00 last year :(
Great Schools though...too bad no kids in them
2800 SF; LOUISVILLE, KY $1,800/ YEAR.... 4/ BEDS 2/BATHS BRICK 1 1/2
STORY..... GOOD DEAL!!!
Finally...some good news!
:-)
3 acres outside of Huntsville, AL with property value about $115K and assessed for about $230 per year. This has to be the cheapest area for taxes I know of.
Here is a breakdown for you.... the county heralded this as an improvement. And interesting enough, this was just in today's mail.
Impossible is an opinion.
16 acre parcel --900 sq ft house 1hour from downtown sacramento ca 20 min. burbs. Bought for 200,000 in double the house size to 2000 sq.ft. but have not finaled the permit. yearly taxes are aroiund $3000 right now because the improvements have not been completed. but here in Cali txes are a little overr 1% and are based on purchase price and/ or valuation of improvements. They therefore don't increase by much over time.