What do you do with your proposals after they’re finished? Mail them to the client? Hand deliver? I must admit that I normally drop them in the mail on the way to the project at hand and hope to hear from the client, if not soon, then someday.
I’m beginning to rethink this method, however. Every once in a while, I hand deliver the proposal when there might be complications or the project is complex. The advantage to this is instant feedback. I was undercut a lot last year (how can anyone afford to undercut and live the NE is beyond me) and am thinking that presenting the proposal in person might help prevent some of that. Granted, it won’t make a difference to the price-only tire kickers.
Mail, or hand carry?
I never met a tool I didn’t like!
Replies
It sounds like you already have the answer to your concern. If the market's tight and you're getting undercut, then definately hand deliver. I normally mail mine, but on the occasions that I've hand delivered, I always tell the person to take their time to look it over and to definatly call if they have any questions.
In tight markets, or a job you really want or need, there's no harm in calling after a week to see if they have any questions or need explanations. I would only call once, though. You never want to appear too anxious.
The important point is not to put the person in an uneasy position of obligation to open it and give an indication of yes or no on the spot.
Jim
How big is your typical project?
If I was staring at a possible 9 month long addition, hand deliver is the way to go.
Job to trim down 4 interior doors to clear carpet, no way.
Somewhere in between is the cutoff point.
As another poster said, if the job market is tight, a little time invested might go a long way.
Jon Blakemore
Do not look at this as a proposal delivery. View it as a sales pressentation. You are there to sell your services with a smile. Your mere presence is a statement that you are interested deeply in th eproject. Keep them at arms length and they will respond in kind. ( there might be some you want to treat this way - a job you really don't want and double the price on - go ahead and mailit)
Even a small job to hang a door, Deliver the rpesemntation and keep your eyes open for other work. "Would you like me to rescreen that window for you while i'm here? It'll only take another $X.00"
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Thanks to everyone who replied. I have to admit that I perfer to drop the proposal into the mail, but I know it is the wrong way to make a sale. I have a fear of rejection (I tried to be a writer once, and although they say you can get used to rejection, I never have.)
I got into the business because I love the work, but I've found that my people skills are as important-maybe moreso-and have been evolving with my business.
So I guess they need to evolve a little more. I don't do additions, mainly bathroom renovations, kitchens, decks. Yeah, doors and trim, but you all have a valid point, maybe if they saw that I cared enough to present the proposal in person, regardless of the project size, the price might not matter as much.
ThanksI never met a tool I didn't like!
maybe your previous career has got you radiating fear.
;)
Dang! That's the best pun I've made all week and it's only Tuesday..
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge
FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where
Excellence is its own reward!
I agree with most things said above, some very good points
I too would suggest hand delivery of most items
the ones I mail are ether ones I walk away from with a strong feeling I am not getting
or like posted above the ones I don't want, double the price and mail it
or , like recently after a big storm when the owners told me, we just need a bid for the insurance company , we are not going to rebuild it anyway, so bid it high
at least they were honest and told me
propabally spent 5 minutes on bid and mailed it
But just hand delivery is not the whole picture, your presentation of the delivery is important too
that cold start a whole new post
I have a fear of rejection (I tried to be a writer once, and although they say you can get used to rejection, I never have.)
Shame on you...........the only person that can reject you is yourself. Write on the blackboard five hundred times......."I'm KING of the world! There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
JJ, thanks for the reply.
We are who we are. We can change, sometimes, but more often we work around our faults and fallicies, compromising for the moment to preserve the identity, wanted or not.
Tomorrow brings work, a brief reprieve in the dull headache of life. Depressing day, for some reason. Time to go for a walk in the freezing sunshine.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
We are who we are. We can change, sometimes, but more often we work around our faults and fallicies, compromising for the moment to preserve the identity, wanted or not.
That's a very good point, Nick. Trying to change who you are is frequently not a good idea. I remember working in an electrical store. There was commission on some of the less popular items. One of the salesmen there would virtually insist on people buying the commissioned stuff, and he made a lot of money. I use to watch him in action but I could never emulate his technique. I was concerned about this at the time, but later I realised that I was happy being me, and not browbeating my customers.
Like you say, recognising one's characteristics and working around them, where necessary, is the way to go
John
It is hard to do, but sometimes I have been able to reframe the "rejection".
It not that they rejected me (or my design), but rather that they do not appreciation what I have to offer.
Excellent point. What I am offering must not be what they are searching for, whatever it may be.
New perspective, thanks.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
We are who we are.
Of course.........if we try to change our basic foundation we become phoney...........I'm not advocating that.........
I am advocating learning enough about ourselves to see the massive amount of potential we possess..........and the gifts that we have.........and feeding off the positive side of our nature...............this takes practice..........
play music? gotta practice.........sports? gotta practice............same principle works in our psyche. ..................practice being all you can be, that's all....and don't worry about what other people think.............look at that chinese dude on American Idol............He is without a doubt My all time favorite.........can't sing a lick, but he still puts on a great show.
There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
A wise old GC once told me that SPEED, QUALITY and PRICE are the three main components of a job. A customer can only get 2 out of 3. I tell this phrase to my customers and find out that the ones who understand it are the ones I want to work for.
I do QUALITY and SPEED. The price, well, it's reasonable for what I do.
By the way, in this entire thread nobody has mentioned e-mail. I've sent many proposals by e-mail and had a response within minutes. Sometimes it takes a little longer, but a reminder e-mail is hard to dodge. "Hey, just wondering if you've had a chance to take a look at that proposal." I always get a response. I like to think it's hanging in their inbox, haunting them. Like Jeff said, it's great to be able to get some pictures in front of them as well, sent as JPGs.
Come on now. We're on the computer right now. Mail?
I usually am not competetively bidding and will most times hand deliver. This way I can sit down with the homowners and explain the hi / low points while the shock is still fresh in their systems. You can get alot out of the expressions on their faces in case there's a bit of adjusting to do to come to an agreement. The few times there was another price on the table, I found it necessary to present mine in person. This gives the opportunity to pitch my bid personally. Don't have any idea if it has helped, but it does have the personal approach. Certainly can't say I didn't try if in fact I lose it. Sleep easier that way.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
nick...i'm with piffen on this.... by the time i'm ready to hand over a Proposal... i want a commitment..i've already got 10 to 100 hours in the estimate and Proposal ( BTW).. if it's a 100 hours, i'm being paid to prepare the Proposal )
if they say "drop it in the mail".. i tell them .. "i never mail proposals"..
i want a face to face.. and i fully expect to leave with a signed Proposal and a deposit check.. if not.. chances are pretty good i'm not getting the jobMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
What are some of the techniques that you use to close your sales when you visit?
And what if you are the first bidder and they want three bids?
what if you are the first bidder and they want three bids?
"
I let them know that I sell services and don't get into bidding situations because I want to provide quality service which cannot be done if I am the lowest bidder in a pricce shopping expedition. I am there to provide them with value, if that is what they want. Part of my service is to provide the design and other preliminary work that is needed for an objective bid comparison.
I would also ask them who else they are consideriung for their 'bids'. Since i know the other guys in my area, I get a feeling for whether I would be likely to be the high bidder and wasting mny time, or if I would be compared to others in my class.
here's an example from a few years ago -
A potential customer called for an "estimate" as he called it. Based on our first meetings, I had no indication he was shopping bids. He presented me with a set of well done plans from an archy and I returned him an estimate. Suddenly he was refering to it as a 'bid' and I found out that my 'bid' was ten percent higher than another contractor. I said no problem, but I would have appreciated knowing that I was in a competitive bid situation and saved us both the time invested because my people were more highly skilled and higher paid than those of the other contractor. I assured him he would probably be happy with the other's work and left with no hard feelings.
Now comes the bigger life lesson.
This other contractor ended up wishing he had not won the bid. He also considered it an estimate at first but allowed himself to be held to the price. Bad weather and underskilled help hurt his bottom line. The job kept him tied up at a time when he could have been doing other higher paying work that ended up in my lap.
He and I both get along still and laugh about the irony of it though.
But I probably laugh a little easier.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
well... a lot of what piffen said .. and..
i have a nice presentation book with lots of photos and i try to engage both husband and wife in the process... sometimes it's difficult because there may be kids involved trying to steal the show .. i'm pretty patient and maybe that works in my favor...
if i'm the first bidder and i find out they want three bids... i usually politely decline..
who am i going to beat with my bid ?.. the only one might be some of the big contractors from Newport with a large staff.. but i almost never bid against those guys.. they're hooked up... or they're low-ballers hoping to screw the owner with Change Orders...
if i'm doing a competitive bid.. i'm just not going to win on price... i'm going to build it the way i think it ought to be built.... most customers call me because i have a good reputation for quality work...
i used to have a reputation for being high priced... in the end that has probably helped more than hurt.. better to be talked about as high priced with good quality than low priced with poor quality..
another thing that helps to get a closing is ASKING for it... any time you can leave the meeting with their signature and a check for any commitment gives you a leg up on getting the final contract...
suppose i convince you to give me $1000 to prepare a Proposal ? what are the chances that my Proposal is going to be accepted ? i think of it as pre-selling the SALE.. if i did it 100% of the time, i'd be a lot better off today than i am.. it is unbelievable to me how much of my career i WASTED preparing estimates for jobs i never got... if i want to give my time away i'd rather do it here on BT.. at least i get something back from you guys and gals
anyways... everytime you have a meeting with a potential customer..think about what you can do to get a commitment... and everytime you leave a meeting without one.. sit down and think about what you could have done differently that would have resulted in a positive outcome... and then come on back here and tell me about it so i can use it too....
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
oh yes as Mike says the hrs he spent on bids - whether you get them or not
you;re getting good feedback Nick maybe drop the nuke'em but who am I ?
like a courting phase do you pick up that whiffle ball and toss a few for son Daryl; was there some bond w/ Abbey the dog - chest rubs are pretty intimate - maybe this Nick would be a good one to have around ** you park in a considerate manner, took off your shoes at the front door not promoting Eddie Haskell esque behaviour but in looking over the project you may have picked up an incredible insight into that household's culture - show them some appreciation of it
Yeah, I'm a convert to hand delivered. Within the last week I've secured a major bathroom renovation and a trimout of a basement remodel, both having sat down with the clients to walk them thru the proposal and everything to be done. The smaller stuff I may still mail, however, depending on my schedule. They didn't even want another bid.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
"another thing that helps to get a closing is ASKING for it... any time you can leave the meeting with their signature and a check for any commitment gives you a leg up on getting the final contract..."
at one of my ver first sales seminars .... then ... thru many many more ....
it was pounded into my head ... that "80% of all sales are lost" ... due to the closing never being asked for.
Not sure who made up that percent ... or how made up it is ... but I'd bet the truth is actually somewhere close to that "fact".
I've been on sales calls with other guys ... and in the car dealer I worked you sat at open desks and could always see what the other guys/girls were doing ...
and I was always amazed at the number of times I'd see someone lay out the whole sales process .. get down to the final numbers ... then .... nothing.
Usually the customer looked as confused as the sales guy!
We forget ... they're new to this ... we're supposed to know the next step.
Ya gotta tell them! Or ask ... or what ever.
A close can be as simple as ... "OK... That's it ... sign here".
A close can even be simply sliding your pen over to them as they have the contract open to that last page for signature.
Or ... "Do we have a deal" ....
even ... "wadda ya think" is better than nothing!
"how's them apples" ... anything.
I think half thos esales I saw lost were simply because the customer didn;t know how to accept the sale ... and the professional sales guy didn't lead them to a common sense option.
I like ..... depending on the job and costomer ...
"now, to get you on the schedule .... I'll need your signature here, ... and that start check".
best part about asking for the sale .... if there are any hidden concerns or objections ... asking someone for some money is usually a great way of getting them on the table for discussion.
As to another question about bidding against someone else ... I work in a pretty big area ... tons of other contractors .... usually have no clue as to who the other guy is....
but if I figure they're getting more estimates ... usually after asking for the sig and check it'll come out ... I just say ...
"I'm usually on the higher side when my customers are getting the standard 3 bids. If I'm really high .. or really low ... I'd appreciate if you let me know ... as either me or the others have over looked something ... or we're misunderstanding your project and are actually bidding different projects. But if I'm on the high side ... we're probably all on the same page."
That usually get's more questions flowing ...
then I can go into the "I'm higher because I generally provide a much higher level of quality and service. "
I never apologize for being priced on the high end .... I just explain the end results dictate a higher price ... I also emphasize I won't lower my standards or rush a job thru to meet an unrealistically low budget.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
nail the bid to their porch door with 6 inch galvanised ringshank nails.....then skulk by the tree as they come out to see whassup....you'll gauge a lot by their expressions of confusion.....lol j/k j/k............mainly by hand, works better if you seem willing to meet halfway, gives the would be client confidence in your humanity and business ethics
I always hand deliver quotes because it gives me a second time to meet with the client (just in case I wasn't at my best during the initial meeting). I then read through the quote with them and answer any of their questions as we go through the descriptions. And finally when we get to the price I can tell by their expressions if it is higher then they expected and if so, I just have to work a little harder to close the deal. And like Piffen said it gives you a second chance to up-sell the job by a few extra items and also if you missed seeing something during the first visit it gives you a chance to correct the quote at that time. And don't worry about rejection, consider it their loss that they didn't hire you.
"meet with the client (just in case I wasn't at my best during the initial meeting)."
or
just in case they weren't at their worst.
For a big job you want at least two meetings to gauge them. It is a dating process. getting to know them. The better you are at it, the faster you can be in measuring them.
That takes experience which comes from time spent face to face, not skulking behind a tree with the proposal nailed to the door of their cathedral. Martin Luther was no salesman.
.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge
FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where
Excellence is its own reward!
I agree. Statistically, there are more bad customers then bad contractors, ask anybody that works in retail. Choose your customers wisely.
hard to sell yourself thru the mail.
and ..
like Mike said ...
if they puch for a mail drop ...
they ain't serious.
They gotta make an effort if they expect me to.
Plus ... really tough to force them to page thru the potofolio thru the mail too.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
IM with piffin on this, Not only do you have to sell your proposal, you have to sell yourself as the best choice. Make it personal, not only may it make the difference between the job, but it lays a foundation for future business as well as referrals.
Any Chump can lick a stamp and mail a proposal, make yourself stand out. Wear clean clothes with your business logo, check the soles of your shoes before you enter etc. Little things can make you stand out as THE choice. hand delivering the proposal also lets you get non verbal communication from the prospective client.
Remember youre in BUSINESS, treat it like you'd want to be treated. Sell your business with a meeting, not a stamp.
ALWAYS face to face............this business is as much selling yourself as the job..................be smart..........find a mans fear, convince him you can address it to his satisfaction and DO it..................con, cheat, lie.......you die.
I always form a relationship with my client........if I don't like........I walk. (unless I'm starving) When I choose not to follow my gut feeling............I almost always suffer.
A letter may be OK occassionally.........but first form a bond with the client.........I do e-mails alot...........America demands instant gratifaction..........letters take too long.