Replies

1. 
   davidmeiland | Jul 22, 2006 07:14am | #1

   If you read down a little ways there's a reference to the guy who invented the Starrett ProSite protractor. I don't think he's a carpenter any more... if you get my drift. There's more reading on him if you look around.

   http://www.spokesmanreview.com/home/indoor/story.asp?ID=68887

2. 
   VTNorm | Jul 22, 2006 02:30pm | #2

   I'd suggest getting a patent (at least starting the process) before showing it off. I've been through the process before, a couple of times through a company I worked for & then once on my own.

   The Patent Office web site has lots of good info: http://www.uspto.gov/index.html

   You can do a search to see if your tool or something like it has already been patented - just because it's not on the shelf in the tool store doesn't mean it's not yet been thought of.

   Do a search and if the idea is solid then find a good patent attorney; yep, they're specialists and if you've done some homework ahead of time they're more likely to give you the time of day.

   -Norm

1. 
   Homewright | Jul 25, 2006 12:29pm | #3

   Thanks for the responses guys.  I've been down the patent search road and know there's nothing like what I'm putting together so it's simply a matter of finishing the design (prototype) process.  I'm not in a financial position to patent it now and am looking at licensing options or outright selling of the idea.  Incidentally, it  was inspired a couple days after talking with another finish carp and both of us agreeing "there has to be a better way."  Hopefully this idea will prove to be so...

1. 
   dtgardengirl | Jul 27, 2006 03:02am | #10

   A) Listen to ttfweb - on the mark advice

   B) Run, don't walk, to the USPTO site and read up on filing a Provisional Application.  It's around $200 for the one year protection.  Also, keep your invention private, to yourself, until you are legally protected.  It sounds like you prefer to license or sell your invention.  Before you discuss it, I'd insist on a strong confidentiality agreement.  By disclosing your invention, you are opening yourself up to the possibility that someone will rush to patent it before you do so and the first one there usually gets the gold.  Also, if another contributed, they probably have some claim in the matter as well.  Even if they suggested one small tweak that make a difference and you used it, they would be considered a co-inventor.

   Please, make it a priority to become informed about protecting your intellectual property, otherwise you may have nothing more than a good idea that nets you nothing.  I am not an attorney, and I am not offering legal advice, just recommending you get it quick, and that you keep this under your hat until you are protected.  I work in patents for a large world-wide corporation.  Do not be discourage by the perceived red-tape.  It is something you can do if you are properly prepared.  In the licensing or selling mode, you most certainly need legal assistance to cover yourself to draft the agreement before you even discuss anything with a potential customer.  I don't know it attorney's work on contingency on this type of thing, but if they do, you might not be out of pocket up front.

   Lastly, if you work for a company and have improved on their product, you likely signed away your right upon employment and must disclose and assign your rights to the company.  If you are independent, that should not be a problem in many cases.

   Do your homework, take care of your I.P. and good luck!  Be sure we get an invite if you have a celebratory party!

   Edited 7/26/2006 8:05 pm ET by dtgardengirl

1. 
   ANDYSZ2 | Jul 27, 2006 04:02am | #11

   Be very careful with tool companies.

   Had a friend who invented gear wrench like tools and several other neat tools along those lines showed it to a big tool co. and a year later they were selling it in their catalogs with a patent listed as a welding tool.

   Last time I talked to him he had spent over a 100,000$ fighting the co.

   By the way he had over 12 patents on the design.

   ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?

   REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST

    

1. 
   TJK | Jul 27, 2006 08:55am | #12

   As your friend found out, in the real world patents offer no protection beyond the right to file an infringement lawsuit. If you don't have the financial resources to soldier through the legal system, the patent is meaningless. Large companies know this and will often drag out proceedings to strangle the little guys. Here is some useful advice for people inclined to try their hand in the patent system:http://www.tinaja.com/glib/casagpat.pdfhttp://www.tinaja.com/glib/when2pat.pdf

2. 
   tfarwell | Jul 27, 2006 09:23pm | #13

   Andysz2 brings up a very good point that I forgot to mention.

   Before we take any design to a fabricator, we get them to sign an NDA - non-disclosure agreement. It is a relatively brief document where the fabricator states that they will not discuss anything associated to your design with anyone.

   Also - do not fall into any agreements with fabricators during the prototype process. Many of them will want a deal to that gives your low prototype price, but they want agreement to fab for 3 to 5 years. If you have a great idea, keep the ownership for yourself, then you can make good decisions as you move forward.

    

3. 
   WorkshopJon | Jul 25, 2006 04:28pm | #4

   HW,

   What does the tool do?

   WSJ

1. 
   Homewright | Jul 26, 2006 12:55am | #5

   I'm replacing the tried and true coping saw with a jig for a router to do the same thing.  Without divulging the design, I've run some passes with my rough prototype using a spiral cut bit and playing with some 5" crown.  It came out as well or better than a coping saw could do in about 30 seconds from start to finish including putting the stock in the jig and securing it in place.  I'm pretty excited with the results so far...

1. 
   WorkshopJon | Jul 26, 2006 01:43am | #6

   HW,

   It sounds like a good concept, but it's the concept, not your design IMO.  I doubt it's patentable.  We get calls from guy's? like you all the time where I work

   http://www.jppattern.com

   Any shop like ours could build what you describe in a heartbeat.  You need to find a capable shop to refine it, but it's all about the marketing, networking, and having the $$$ to see it through.

   WSJ

1. 
   Homewright | Jul 27, 2006 01:05am | #8

   Jon,

   I'm sure about any shop such as yours could throw this thing together in a day with all the resources you have at your disposal.  And yes, the money is the biggest challenge I have in seeing this thing through.  Nonetheless, I'll go it on my own until I get the design to such a point as to be ready for shopping the idea (jig) around to someone with an established marketing machine.  Thanks for your thoughts and I loved the website.  Jerry

4. 
   tfarwell | Jul 26, 2006 05:54am | #7

   Jerry,

   I have done a significant amount of intellectual property management (currently work in high-tech, used to work in the trades).

   Here are some of the facts:

   Patents

   • A patent is the best way to protect yourself - but they are expensive. You can expect to pay between $30K and $50K to establish one, and between $5K and 10K per year to maintain it - if its a good design, people will challenge you.
   • You can apply for a provisional patent pretty simply for a few hunderd bucks - when you see "patent pending", this is what has occured. Once this is filed, you get a year of sales to apply for the full deal. This is the test period, where you can try to sell your design, but still be covered legally.
   • Do not assume that you can patent your design. You have to prove that it is a true innovation, and that nothing similar has been filed. Just because it is not on the market, does not mean it is not filed. Of the 28 patents I have applied for (not my ideas, I managed them), we only intended to use about 6 of them. The rest were intended to block the competition only.

   Trademarks

   • Even though you may not have what is termed as "original art" - a true innovation, you can establish a trademark and sell your device under that name. No one else can use that name. Here are some great examples:
   • Jello - no other companies can sell using this name. What else do you call it?!
   • Leatherman - the competition has to use "multi-tool"
   • Xerox - worked well for many years.
   • Trademarks cost a couple hundred bucks to register.
   • You really need to put a lot of thought into this one. If you trademark your tool as "crappy cutter" it won't sell at all. You have to get a name that sounds good and communicates the general use: "Roto-zip", "Sawzall", "Wonderbar" are some great examples. Nothing funcky, dorky, or silly will get you in the market.

   If I had a good idea, here is what I would do:

   • Absolutely, under no circumstances go to one of the "we can help you with your invention" places. They will get you nowhere and put you at risk. 
   • Establish a trademark name right-away.
   • Take copies of all your drawings and mail them to yourself in registerd mail. The post-mark on the envelope establishes the design date. Make sure you date and initial each page of your design.
   • Make sure you document the first sale of your finalized product. The clock then starts ticking to file your provisional patent - you have a year
   • Get a solid marketing plan. Better to have an average product and a great marketing plan, than the other way around.

   If you have more technical questions, email me at [email protected]

   Good luck,

   TTF

    

   
   

   ---

   Edited 7/25/2006 11:19 pm ET by ttfweb

1. 
   Homewright | Jul 27, 2006 01:08am | #9

   Thanks for posting.  You offer some great information and advice.  Years ago I came up with a scribing tool and tried it through one of those 'inventors wanted' outfits only to see how lame they truly are.  Sucking money is all they intend to do it seems.  I may take you up on the offer to contact you via e-mail.  Thanks again.  Jerry