Replies

1. 
   Mongo_ | Jan 17, 2002 09:02am | #1

   *
   You pump yourself up. You crank yourself down. Very controlled. They'll not ever slip down on the poles.

   Consider buying a new or used set of aluminum poles (Alum-a-Pole's or Qual Craft's Ultra-Jack) if you'll be using them repeatedly. Sometimes you can get a deal on a used set from a rent-all shop.

   If you use cobbled together 2x4's they may take a while to get used to. Stong? Yes, if you use good wood, good joint overlap, and a good nailing schedule. Wobbly/Bouncy? Yes, no matter how good the wood you use.

   Back when I was young a bulletproof, I used to work on triple-deckers up in MA off of pumpjacks. Bigger and better thrills than Disneyworld.

1. 
   piffin_ | Jan 17, 2002 10:02am | #2

   *Buy a few extra stand offs for leapfrogging your attachment to the building and quit worrying about the wobble, it will cease to exist.The book says every seven feet- posts and braces. I go to twelve for a two man job and don't have problems.Incorrectly used, they can slip a few inches, which is why some guys hate them.

1. 
   Andy_Engel_ | Jan 17, 2002 04:48pm | #3

   *I'd vote with Mongo for the AlumaPoles, although all I've ever owned climb wood. Once I get to the second floor, I'll cross-brace the poles to each other. Makes a big difference. Don't forget toe boards on your scaffold. If your jacks are like mine, you'll find that you need to replace the 2x4s occasionally as they'll wear and the jacks won't crank down without beating on them with a hammer. I hate that. Piffin's dead right on the extra standoffs. There was a post a while back about a way to build a sturdy, relatively light, torsion box scaffold. Mine's 16 ft. long with no bounce, and I can carry it alone. To make the sides, I ripped a clear 16-ft. long 2x8 down the middle. I ripped 4 16-in. by 8 ft. lengths of 1/2-in. cdx for the skins. The ripped 2x8 was nailed into a ladder-like assembly, with blocking every 4 ft. I laid this assembly on my porch with a 2 by laid flat under its center, then clamped the ends down to build in some camber. Next, I skinned the top with the cdx, glued and nailed every 4 in. (The chronology is wrong - I must have started to skin the ends, then clamped and finished nailing. You'll figure it out) I flipped it over, and skinned the bottom, staggering the joints in the plywood skin by 4 ft.This scaffold is so rigid, I wonder if one could be built using 5/4 instead of 2 by stock, and maybe even 3/8 ply for at least the bottom.Andy

1. 
   jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Jan 17, 2002 05:47pm | #4

   *Read the directions. They work great going up. Going down can be an adventure if you don't do it right. First off, the crank that lowers them has a square section that slides through a square hole insuring it won't spin. There is also a rounded section on the same shaft that allows the crank to spin, thereby lowering the jack. Point being, I see guys hitting that thing with a hammer trying to get it to release, and the problem is, the square section is still locked in the square hole.Another thing is, before you start to lower the jack, lift the foot peddle all the way up. If it's not in that position, the first time you crank, the crank will slip, you'll try to figure out what's wrong and lift that peddle, and the jack will jump down about 2" all at once - then you'll have to take time to go home and change your pants.Another thing, to lower the jacks there has to be weight on the plank supporting arm. So to lower a jack with no plank on it, stand on the arm (I didn't tell you that).I own 6 of them and think they're the cat's pajammas. I started with a pair 20 years ago, and have gradually added more as the need arose and I had a few sheckles in my tool fund. True, those alumipole jacks are way better, but you could buy enough wood climbing jacks to wrap an entire house for what the alluminum jacks cost. I'd say it depends on how much time you spend on them which is the better value. Take time to reread Andy's post about building a plank. I took some guy's advive a few years ago and built a couple of planks like that and I love them. Talk about "bombproof".

1. 
   jcallahan | Jan 17, 2002 06:55pm | #5

   *Jim, Andy, those torsion box "planks" sound like the hot ticket. Do you find the step up bothersome where they overlap and are much lighter than regular staging planks? I usually work by myself.

2. 
   Mongo_ | Jan 17, 2002 07:40pm | #6

   *I'll jump in quickly...The torsion boxes are great. Big bang per pound.I don't overlap them...I extend the sides of the boxes beyond the surface that you stand on by a bit so that the torsion box looks like a hospital stretcher with little arms on each end. I put steel plates with a 1" hole in them on the out- and insides of these "arms," and through-bolted them in place.Slide the two adjacent torsion boxes together so that the arms overlap and the two walking surfaces have about a half-inch gap in between them. this lines up the holes in the arms. A bolt is run through, locking the two torsion boxes together, yet allowing them to hinge as the jacks are raised and lowered.There is one other detail, a small piece of steel that "locks" the arms of each torsion box over the arm of the jack. Even if the bolts holding the two torsion boxes together came out, this small steel "90" would keep the arms of the torsion box from sliding off the arm of the pumpjack.It all sounds more difficult than it really is...but it does give a solid ride when your up in the air. I like the continuous, no-step-up-or-down required walking surface.Like others have mentioned, definitely brace the jacks well. Cross-bracing and extra standoff arms should be standard when you get higher.One thing I've never used, though, are the pole base plates to "lock" the poles into the ground.

3. 
   jcallahan | Jan 17, 2002 07:45pm | #7

   *Thanks!

4. 
   Boss_Hog | Jan 17, 2002 09:24pm | #8

   *I have no experience with pump jacks, but have been asked to make up sets of 28' boards for them. We took the highest grade of 2X4 we had (Select Structural SYP) and spliced them together with truss plates. Don't know if the plates interfered with the pump part of the jacks or not - never got any complaints. Your truss company may or may not be willing to do that, but it would be worth considering.

5. 
   Thaddeus_Raven | Jan 17, 2002 10:56pm | #9

   *I set them up 12' apart with a box beam similar to Andy's and Mongo's. After seven years the box beam plank is due for replacement. Building a crown into it is a nice touch I'll copy this time. Also, the 1/2" CDX gets slick, especially during pine pollen season. Non-slip paint comes highly recommended (surplus or reject with sand thrown in works nicely)

6. 
   Mr.T | Jan 18, 2002 02:23am | #10

   *Rockfish Dont splce the 2x4s if this is the way you decide to go. Shell out a few extra bucks and buy 24 foot long 2x4s. The added security is well worth the added cost, not to mention avoiding the agravation that spices can cause.Its your ass up there Better yet buy the alum. poles if your going to use them alot.Mr T

7. 
   Tommy_B. | Jan 18, 2002 05:23am | #11

   *I vote for the alumpole system as well. I have a pretty good selection of their equipment. I don't buy their planks as they are about twice the cost and heavy.I recently found out after about 6 or 7 years of using alumapole that they are not bombproof. A few weeks ago one of my guys slid a jack 18 feet down a pole, I'm talking no grab at all, free fall. Fortunately he only suffered some bruises and a sore knee, and the other guy on the setup managed to hang on. I contacted a factory rep and he met me at the job a few days later to discuss what happened. So that it doesn't happen to any one else I'll explain.I don't know anyone who uses all equipment exactly as designed and pump poles are no different. There is a tendency to sometimes release the foot pedal and let the crank handle spin freely and ride them down fast. There is a tendency when the plank has a significant load on it to kick the foot pedal to release it when jacking down. The proper way is to apply pressure to the jacking foot lever and use light pressure to realase the down foot pedal.Apparently my guy did not apply pressure to the up crank before kicking the foot pedal, so at the time he released it, nothing could grab the pole.I have used pumps for twenty years and never had an accident, although of course the employee blamed the equipment. Some rules that I have followed to maintain my current safety record. Which weren't followed.Read and follow all rules on the equipment. I'm not kidding, the rep asked my employee if he pushed the pedal down before release per the safety warning right on it. He says, there's no label, till the rep showed it to him.I don't like to start high. I finish a wall and jack down at the end of the day if at all possible. Turn planks over if theres a chance of inclement weather.Inspect equipment and setups before, during and after use, and any other chance you get. Treat all scaffolding equipment as if you life depends on it.Don't fasten pump brackets to plywood alone. Set poles on a chunk of 2x12 to avoid settling. Use the workbenches with safety rails at a minimum, chain all equipment down at all times. This doesn't make you a pussy. Stand and nail off one pole at a time when setting up and tearing down. A gust of wind could come along and knock it down which could be like a tree falling on you with the alumapoles. There's plenty more where these came from. I really try hard to train my guys, and I am a stickler for safety, but I saw my financial well being flash before my eyes on this one. Needless to say, we've had some extensive retraining since this accident. And it could have been a whole hell of alot worse.

8. 
   piffin_ | Jan 18, 2002 05:36am | #12

   *I must have 20 or 30 of them. For my box planks, I make the 2x4 extend about 8 or 10 inches beyond the ply walking surface. Then I drill a 3/4" hole about four inches from the end. These lap on the pump arm and I can tie them together but they don't bind when riding up and down for a long run. I like them about 12' apart and build them with 14' 2x4s. There is a little gap you can step into at the lap/bracket so I guess that it isn't OSHA OK but we use them plenty. I lower them by stepping one foot into the pumpstirrup and squatting on it, lower my other leg out around the pole, hold the pole with a hand and crank down with the other one. I oil the springs and moving parts every time I build or dismantle. Like the man said, it IS YOUR LIFE.I've used wood posts up to 36 feet high. The gusset plate is the way to get a good lap, offsetting by at least four feet.

9. 
   jcallahan | Jan 18, 2002 06:05am | #13

   *I use PL 400 when assembling my poles ...... works well. Wipe off any excess so it doesn't interfere with the the jack. I also coat the poles (especially the ends)with a wood preservative such as clear Cuprinol or Woodlife. I usually keep a trash can with a lid tied off when I'm way up. Good for trash and for putting tools under cover quickly if a storm brews.

10. 
    jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Jan 18, 2002 08:11am | #14

    *Those are good ideas about making the 2x's in the planks longer than the plywood. I lap my planks, and it does indeed make quite a step. I like the idea of extra standoffs for each post, too. How about handles for carrying? You guys put three handles, one at each end then another dead center for when you are moving them alone?A couple years ago I bought those spiked feet for the poles and I really like them, you can chunk them down right where you want and they stay. I only do about one job a year, sometimes every other year, that requires scaffolding, so I buy new douglas fir for poles every time, using the old ones as 2x4. I don't like to trust old lumber for something like that. I screwed my posts together with deck screws this time. Just today I took apart a 16 foot pole, staggered the 2x's 6 feet, added 6 foot 2x's to make 22 footers and screwed them back together quick as could be.Tommy B. - Has that employee gone back up on those things since his mishap? That might just put me right over the edge, man.

11. 
    Rockford_ | Jan 18, 2002 08:58am | #15

    *Everyone,Thanks for the replies! I learned allot and I'm convinced that the pump jacks are the way to go.

12. 
    Tommy_B. | Jan 18, 2002 07:00pm | #16

    *Jim, Yeah he has. It wigged us all out for a few days. Thing was, he said it slipped a few inches before it really let loose, he looked over at the other guy and told him, then continued to stand on the thing. My question was if something seemed out of place, why not get the hell off it immediately? He is a big (230lb.)guy, and really bright, just had a momentary lapse in judgement. I paid him to take the day off and he was back the next day. Good guy. We are both really fortunate that nothing worse happened. Construction is inherently dangerous. I have a lot of respect for gravity, I think about it with just about every step I make when my feet aren't on the ground.

13. 
    The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Jan 18, 2002 10:48pm | #17

    *Alumapoles for high work...Wood OK for low work.MY last job was a fifty foot set up...with a 65' fall to the outside down a rock cliff.near the stream hooked into safety harness just to post this,aj

14. 
    nathan_wegemer | Jan 19, 2002 11:35am | #18

    *Great timing on the discussion, thanks for the information everyone.Would one of the 16' foot ply trusses carry a 1k lb load spread out over five feet in center? Any special precautions going up 25' with this window? How about the aluminum truss planks?

15. 
    r__ignacki | Jan 19, 2002 04:09pm | #19

    *Yeah.....But you won't be able to pump it up there. They don't work like that.

16. 
    jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Jan 19, 2002 06:53pm | #20

    *So Nathan, what are you saying, a 600lb window and 2, 200 lb workers steadying it while two others pump the jacks?

17. 
    The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Jan 20, 2002 12:48am | #21

    *Nathan...I send windows out the window opening...Big ones up 2 or 3 ladders....and have also set up my wall brackets below and mid span a RO to install window from...Send window out...guys on inside and outside...install...then guys climb in through an opened window sash...I need to start scanning pics as I have some great pics of these wind-o-batics.near the window that looks upon the stream,aj

18. 
    Alan_Kim | Jan 20, 2002 05:22am | #22

    *I've been reading all the posts to this thread with great interest.I do not recall this being a subject of a FH article...was there one ?I'm getting lost on some of the terms used to describe the setup.

19. 
    nathan_wegemer | Jan 20, 2002 08:02am | #23

    *yup, something like that.

20. 
    nathan_wegemer | Jan 20, 2002 08:06am | #24

    *these beasts are 40" wide, and about 8' tall, double pane safety glass. I'm good with the technique you use, but don't see it happening safely with one this large.

21. 
    Mongo_ | Jan 20, 2002 08:22am | #25

    *This may sound too silly, but I used to edit a publication. For most publishing, the only way an article on pumpjacks would be printed would be if it were written straight from the manufacturer's safety guide.My techniques, as those of others, are just that...techniques. Some the manufacturer of the product may endorse, some they may not. In the legal world there's a huge difference between "techniques' and "procedures." Suppose Taunton published my pumpjack technique that went against, or was not endorsed, by the pumpjack manufacturer, and then a reader went out and broke their neck while using that technique. Legally it could be an ugly can of worms.I could be mistaken...

22. 
    Alan_Kim | Jan 20, 2002 05:04pm | #26

    *Thanks, Mongo -re - My techniques, as those of others, are just that...techniques. Some the manufacturer of the product may endorse, some they may not. In the legal world there's a huge difference between "techniques' and "procedures."-------Enough said.I'll be responsible for my own actions in interpreting and adopting the fine points mentioned in this thread.This post of mine can be used to ward off any weasel who tries to make a buck off of any mishap that I have.And if I am conscious after a mishap, I will prohibit any weasel from even considering such action.However, many excellent points in this thread have been on safety and I will be heeding them as if my three boys' lives were dependent on it.Alan

23. 
    Mongo_ | Jan 20, 2002 05:39pm | #27

    *Alan, The point I was trying to get across was that I doubt if Taunton would publish an article on pumpjacks showing user "techniques" that are not specifically endorsed by the manufacturer. That's all.I'm not saying that I won't clarify details for you and force you to interpret them on your own. I'm not saying that I won't help you out, or that I won't offer you advice, or that I won't make up drawings of my planking system and email you should you need clarification. I will.There's a big difference between a private poster offering advice to someone via this forum and a corporation's (read: Taunton's) legal department allowing the same information out in print. That's the only point I was trying to get across.Regards, Mongo

24. 
    Alan_Kim | Jan 20, 2002 06:26pm | #28

    *Hi, Mongo -I apologize if my comments sounded cynical, which wasn't meant to be at all. Actually, I was agreeing with your reasoning for the reluctance toward tackling certain topics as a magazine article.If there was any sign of cynicism it was directed toward our highly litigious society and somewhat in jest to protect the posters. (Many years ago I had a business law professor who mentioned "Sue Everybody in Sight". Uuuggghhh..)The comments posted for this thread has been very informative and I was naive enough to think practical/real world experience is more informative as an article on pumpjack safey and usage then (unfortunately) having to simply repeat manufacturer's instructions.My most sincere apologies again. (I may post some questions if I have a difficult time visualizing some of the details mentioned.)Thanks so much for your offer to help,Alan

25. 
    The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Jan 20, 2002 06:53pm | #29

    *Nathan...I could have installed a dozen of your windows by now with time spent yakking about it. Get enough hands on deck to hold onto corners of it...get it to the RO and secure it with your choice of fasteners.2 men up ladders ahead of window holding the top corners...2 to 3 men bulling up the bottom...a guy or 2 on the inside guiding and leveling..actual leveling pads should be inplace ahead of time...and just get going. If all feel OK as you go..you keep going.Biggest window I installed was $15,000 pyramid stack of 13 2'x2' custom Marvins. We grabbed everybody on the site...grabbed the window...and headed for the opening...resting on rest calls coordinated by who was tiring first.near the stream,ajHey...one time the 5pm came...we were just about ready to put up some huge beams to complete a floor ready for rafters...The guys wouldn't stay but I wanted to see the beams up...When they came in the morining...the beams were up...lift an end a fewe feet...lift the other...Pyramids were built...How? Desire...and just getting on with it.

26. 
    The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Jan 20, 2002 06:58pm | #30

    *By the by....Not trying to give you a hard time....Nathan...Tell us how you finally make out with you install.near the stream,aj

27. 
    jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Jan 20, 2002 07:50pm | #31

    *Yeah, I think you might be gettin' close to maxing out those jacks. That's a lot of weight you're liftin', huh? I don't have any of my jacks at home, but I'll try to remember to read on them Tuesday what the max. recommended load is. That's a heavy window, I'd try to find another way to lift it.I think the planks I built would handle the weight, no sweat, but I'd be real careful about cross bracing the posts if they were wood, I always think they are the weak link and a thrill a minute above, say 20 feet. I've never worked on the alumipoles, but I'm guessing rigidity is their big advantage.

28. 
    nathan_wegemer | Jan 21, 2002 08:23am | #32

    *well, we thought about driving a big snorkelift with a 2-man box on it, but sorta figured since the jacks were going to be there anyway, and the windows won't make the corner into the masterbedroom, they may as well get pumped up. I seem to recall a 800 lb limit on the larger snorkels I've driven, and four of those hand-held vacum gizmos would let the people on the inside handle the unit. But off a plank, I think a ledger could be attached to the outside of a window sill that would pick up a carriage hung off the plank, and the bottom of the unit is slid out to the sill, and then pushed into the hole.I'm glad to hear your planks are up to it. I might call Amir and ask him to give me a vierendeel truss plank design capable of a thousand. Hundred bucks for the peace of mind and L&I insurance rates. No offense, you know. Better get going...AJ already has one in, and things seem to be going ok for him with those ladders.

29. 
    The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Jan 21, 2002 05:06pm | #33

    *Went skiing Nathan...and installed a 4 on the way up the gondola!near the stream...off to take my little nephew skiin today!aj

2. 
   Rockford_ | Jan 21, 2002 05:06pm | #34

   *
   Besides the obvious like proper bracing, ground attachment, and safety rails, are there other safety concerns? I'm mostly unsure of the holding ability while raised and the method of lowering. I've never used them before and am curious of the mechanism for lowering. Is the lowering rate controlled?
   I've seen them set up at a few job sites and they seem like the most economical solution for me. The ones I'm considering are the Qual-Craft brand. Any opinions on these would be appreciated.
   Thanks!