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Discussion Forum

punctured water lines

cdw6231 | Posted in Construction Techniques on May 29, 2006 01:18am

Hi,

My first time posting here. I hope I can get some help.

I was wondering if any drywall contractors out there have ever had the misfortune of puncturing a water line during the coarse of sheeting in a new home and had to deal with the resultant water damage to the finished drywall.

My question is, who should be held responsible for this. The plumber for not adequately protecting the pipe or me, the drywall installer.

The puncture is about 3/4 ” off the floor. The hot water pipe comes up through the floor and through the base plate of the wall. The hole for the water pipe is set back approx. 5/8″ from the edge of the walls base plate.

The plumbing was done by the home owner, who is very meticulous about his work. He took precautions everywhere else with protection to the plumbing except in this one spot of all places.

This has never happened to me before in the 20 some odd years that I have been practicing this trade.

Any and all comments and feed back are greatly appreciated!!!

Thank you for your time.

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Replies

  1. rich1 | May 29, 2006 02:20am | #1

    The pipe was visible when you put up the board?

    Personally, your fault.

     

  2. butch | May 29, 2006 02:30am | #2

    I'd say the homeowner for not putting the pipe in the center of

    wall/using protector plates

    and the sheetrocker for not seeing the potential problem

    or was the wall insulated and you couldn't see the pipe?

    How much damage are you talking about?

  3. User avater
    MarkH | May 29, 2006 02:36am | #3

    If the pipe was not visible, it's homeowners fault, especially if there was vapor barrier over the insulation.  If it was visible, then its your fault even if the pipe was too close to the edge.

  4. davidmeiland | May 29, 2006 02:38am | #4

    He should have put a nail plate there, you should have noticed that he didn't... six dozen of one, half of the other...

    UNLESS the wall is filled with insulation and the pipe is not visible, in which case you're off the hook.

    1. Piffin | May 29, 2006 02:51am | #7

      Just to play devil's advocate -if the wall is insulated, that means it is an exterior wall, probably.
      So we would not bury the pipe in insulation ( well, maybe, if it is a spray foam job) because wew generally try to keep water supply lines out of the exterior wallls, but when necessary, wwe keep them exposed to the inside so they have the benefit of radiating heat from in the house and are less likely to freeze 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      1. davidmeiland | May 29, 2006 03:07am | #8

        I'll see your devil's advocate and raise you one. If you as the GC do the walk-around before insulating, then the HO as GC should have done one too. If I let the piper run a pipe within range of a screw, it's my fault. I expect up to 1" of penetration by drywall screws and I have my own bucket full of nail stops that I take to every job.

        After the first time you have a pipe hit it's real easy to take the correct approach.

        1. Piffin | May 29, 2006 03:38am | #9

          Yeppers, ultimately, it heaps onto the HO as GC in this one.but if I had driven that screw, I'd still feel stupid as all get out - if it was visible, that is. 

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          1. sledgehammer | May 29, 2006 04:52am | #10

            Before drywall we mark all studs with a lumber crayon and all electric/plumbing with orange spray paint.

            Keeps the drywallers and trim carpenters honest.

          2. DonCanDo | May 29, 2006 05:06am | #11

            "Before drywall we mark all studs with a lumber crayon..."

            I don't understand.  You can see the studs, why mark them?  I'm sure you meant something that eludes me, I'm not trying to be a smartass, really.

            -Don

          3. BillBrennen | May 29, 2006 05:21am | #12

            He probably marks 'em on the subfloor so the rockers know what's up after the board is on the wall.

          4. davidmeiland | May 29, 2006 05:49am | #13

            The last house I trimmed out had all of the studs marked on the floor. So much easier to put in base, crown, chair rail, etc.

          5. BillBrennen | May 29, 2006 06:15am | #14

            David,I agree, it is wonderful to have. I do the same on my projects, and will keep on doing it until my x-ray glasses arrive from the ad in the comic book.Bill

          6. DonCanDo | May 29, 2006 02:20pm | #16

            What a guy!  I do that too, but usually it's because I'll be the one hanging the drywall.

            -Don

          7. sledgehammer | May 30, 2006 04:34am | #19

            Sorry I wasn't clear.

            The sub floor is marked for any in the wall hazzard the drywaller or trim carpenter should be aware of.  We had one trim carpenter who was under insured and hiring uninsured labor who hit a water line in a 4 story condo while installing chair rail.

             

            He can now be found at the local soup kitchen.

    2. gleno | May 30, 2006 07:31am | #20

      Jeeze... as homeowners trying to save a buck and wanting to be cowboys and use our self-reliant heritage... And I have certainly been guilty over the years, I have one question to put to the homeowner: "Was his work permitted?" The one beauty of PAYING for a permit, is that as a result, you get another set of unconstrained EYES to see your work, and perhaps the inspector would have ADVISED nail plates in this and perhaps other locations, BEFORE he allowed closure of the wall. How much was saved on the permit as opposed to damages and bad feelings costs here? If I had been the homeowner here, taking on the responsibility of a tradesperson by piping my own home, and if I had provided an inappropriate work surface for the subsequent tradespeople, I would be apologizing to the subsequent tradespeople and repairing my own damages, and calling it tuition. If, in addition, I had covered the wall cavity with insulation, there would be absolutely no question regarding my culpability.

  5. Danusan11 | May 29, 2006 02:44am | #5

    No nail stops installed? split it you remove the board and reinstall he fixes pipe.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  6. Piffin | May 29, 2006 02:45am | #6

    Oops!

    On my jobs the drywaller would replace drywall as neded and the plumber would take care of the plumbing. They would both do it voluntarily and with a groan, but oh well, sometimes it happens.

    if you are looking to assign blame, that can be shared too. it was there for you to see. The pipe should have been buried deeper and a plate should have been nailed for protection.

    as GC, when I all for insulation, I check the walls and the pipes and wires. Then again when I call for sheerock or plaster. I do that inspection with a broom, a camera, and a few protection plates.

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  7. plumbbill | May 29, 2006 08:42am | #15

    Basic rule.

    Put nail plate on side of stud against pipe if nail plate protrudes from stud it needs a nail plate if not then it doesn't

    So basically if the pipe is more than 1.5" from the edge it doesn't need a nail plate.

    It is code for the plumber to protect his pipe.

    On my commercial jobs where they are using steel studs & self tappers --- the nail plates will barely slow them down, but if they drive through the nail plate & into my pipe then my azz is covered.

     

    Do you look to the government for an entitlement, or to GOD for empowerment. BDW

    1. BillBrennen | May 29, 2006 07:27pm | #17

      Plumbbill,You wrote, "On my commercial jobs where they are using steel studs & self tappers --- the nail plates will barely slow them down, but if they drive through the nail plate & into my pipe then my azz is covered."I have seen the same problem in residential. 15 gauge trim nails go right through nail plates and the copper/plastic behind them. That is one reason to mark floors, but it seems that a better grade of "armor" would be good for critical cases. Hardened steel would be tougher for teks and gun nails to penetrate, giving a better survivability for the protected items. For steel stud jobs, the thickness is less important than hardness to keep the drill point screws from cutting through.By the way, the code here requires a minimum of 1-1/4" from face of stud to edge of hole, or else it requires a plate. So a 1" hole exactly centered in a 2x4 is the biggest unplated size allowed. I used this knowledge to help mediate a dispute between an electrician friend and a cabinetmaker friend who shorted one of his wires with a 3" screw. The wire was 1-1/2" from the stud face, so the cabinet guy was responsible. He now uses shorter installation screws and life is better all over.Bill

      1. plumbbill | May 29, 2006 09:56pm | #18

        I agree about the cabinet guys they have put more holes in my pipes than all the sheetrockers I have dealt with.

        I got called back to a job for some screws sticking through a recessed papertowel dispenser & sure enough on the other side of the wall was a cabinet.

        I think they use the lil screw works great so a big one must work better mentality.Do you look to the government for an entitlement, or to GOD for empowerment. BDW

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