First question: Do you prefer snowblowing over plowing?
Second: What snow blower / remover setup would you get if you wanted to do it right and keep about 1/2 mile of subdivision roads clear? Paved roads and sidewalks, 80 driveways. Fully landscaped. Frankly, plowing would create pilage issues.
My opine is a 24 hp Kubota B7610 with a 5′ front blower, quikly detachable and same to hook up a 6′ 6 way blade, plus a 6′ rear 3 pt hitch backblade. Dealer out of town will let the package go for $15K.
Anybody got a better idea?
Replies
A snow blower does a much better job of getting rid of the snow.
BUT, it is incredibly slower for large (read road use).
Driveways would be a good use for the blower.
A 5' might be a bit wide for sidewalks.
A smaller tractor like the Kubota you are looking at will work reasonably well whichever way you go.
Terry
The answer is: depends how much snow and how fast you want to get it done.
I have a blower that mounts on a tractor, a walk behind 30" snow blower, and a 8' blade on a F350. The truck is definetely the tool for my driveway 500' and parking area 200' x 60'; the tractor with rear blower and front end loader is handy for clean up but slow. The walk behind snowblower is good for sidewalks and patios but requires a trip with the shovel for cleanup. I use a leaf blower for light dusting's. I would not recomend any kind of a blade with a tractor if you get any amount of snow. The problem is the the travel speed is not fast enough to get snow to move up and over the side when you are plowing a long road or parking area. If I had a lot of 5' sidewalks I would get a powered powered rotary broom. A heated cab is real nice with the snow blower or the rotary broom. If you opt for the tractor make sure it is FWD. Roger
leave it..
it'll either melt or evaporate...
worst case it'll make a fine base for the next snow..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
That's the way the locals handle things. Normally it is all melted within a coupla days. But when it stays cold after...
YOU could use a Krup Bucket wheel excavator to keep the path to your wodd pile open!!!Peace
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ya
Freakin'
Cry
Babies!!!
best idea yet...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Cat 257 with an Erskine blower.
Got a link? I'd like to see it.
Cat 257 is their middle-of-the-line tracked skidsteer.
Erskine Mfg. makes snowblower attachments for both tractors and skidsteers.
http://www.cat.com
http://www.erskineattachments.com
Thanks. The hydralic drive of the blowers intrigues me.
Blowers are good when you have 8 to 12" of snow, or when you have to remove it (ie, blow it into dump trucks). How much snow do you get at a time, and how soon do the residents expect to be able to use the streets?
I'd go with one of these
http://www.bobcat.com/products/twm/index.html
With a blower, a blade, a broom and a sand spreader.
That of course assumes MNO (money no object)
Simple
The force required to push snow is enormous. You can't take it in small nibbles.
Based on the variety of areas to be cleared, I don't think that there will be one cost-effective solution for the problem. Anything to do the driveways and roads in an efficient amount of time will be too big to take down the average sidewalk without doing damage.
I live in a subdivision where snow removal from driveways and sidewalks is provided by the HOA. I'd let you know what they do but I haven't lived here when the plowed snow. We've had a total of 2" of snow spread out over the last 6 weeks. Roads are by the town.
If it were me, I'd hire the snow removal out and let the contractor figure it out how to best do it. They'll have the right piece(s) of equipment to do the job right.
Edited 1/19/2007 11:24 pm by boiler7904
A blower can do it neatly and fit in smaler spaces, but I don't have all wqeek to get it done. I have a plow on the front of my '99 Chevy 4x4. In 15-20 minutes I plow what it would take several hours to clear with a snowblower.
And it is portable. I do a few other driveways and clear my jobsites too.
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There is no question that plowing is faster. But my goal is NOT to do it faster, but better as well as appearance.
The time factor is without question, important. But I already spend as much time doing my drive and making a path for my wife's sedan to get out, that I actually figure on maybe saving a little. The 32" fall before Xmas took me two full 12 hour days with my 24" Toro blower to keep the road open. The machine I described would have done the whole sub with drives in half that.
Of course, a plow would have done it in a quarter, but not without the appearance & disposal issues.
I figger if I charged the HOA $50 per house (80 houses) per season to keep the 1/2 mile + of streets blowed above 4" falls, under a 5 year committment, I could get myself a tractor paid for and cover my expenses. Of course, no pay, but I sell it on doing my share towards the community, challenging others to do their's.
Furthermore, I (we) become available to do drives and sidewalks for those unable or unwilling - for another $100 a season. Paid by the resident. And then hire the neighbor kids, or others with a manly enough blower to do those sidewalks at 10 to 15 per hour, while contributing any profits left over to those participants kid's charities or schooling fees.
My time would otherwise be spent making other foolish posts here.
I'm thinking this may improve relations between residents.
That is too cheap. equipment breaks when doing this sort of thing, and when you aresick, you still have a committment so you have to hire somebody at a loss.Don't forget to figure in the PITA factor too. Instead of neighbors being mad at the city, they will now be mad at you unless you are a true wizard at PR stuff and always do everything perfectly. Recall the adage that no good deed goes unpunished.I aplaud the goals from the altruistic viewpoint, but reallity bites you in the butt sometimes, so leave the idealism at the curb and take a businesslike view before committing.
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use the Kubota blower for the drives and sidewalks and contract the roads to someone with a plow
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
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yeh but you blow anyway : ) Neocons'll love this...lol~What do John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr, Robert F. Kennedy, and John Lennon have in common?~http://www.john-lennon.net/whoauthor...johnlennon.htm
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
No way would I use a large snowblower in a subdivision. Those things can pick up rocks and sling them a LONG way.
I wouldn't use a snowblower on a tractor unless you have really large drifts that you can't push easily. Since you don't have your location in your profile, I don't know how much snow you have to deal with.
The front mounted blade will work well on roads. Same with the rear mounted one, although it's a bit more inconvenient.
If you get a lot of snow and/or ice, tire chains will work miracles. I'd look for a set of them instead of the blower unless you have some seriously deep snow.
If the tractor doesn't have front wheel assist, I wouldn't suggest trying to plow snow with a front mounted blade.
BTW - A 24 HP tractor doesn't really seem big enough to me for a 6' blade.
As always, dealer support is a big deal. Plowing snow is tough on equipment. You need a dealer who stocks stuff for YOUR brand in case you need something.
One point that hasn't been mentioned: For light to medium snow (up to 4-5 inches) on sidewalks a rotary brush is probably the best choice, unless the snow is real heavy. The brush clears the surface better than a blade or blower and won't bog down like a blade. Deeper and you need a blower or skid-steer loader.Plowing requires weight, power, momentum, and speed, unless you're only doing a couple of inches.
Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm but the harm does not interest them. --T.S. Eliot
Interesting that the quick disconnect system on the front (for the blower, blade) also accomodates the same size rotary broom, which I am also considering.
A good mention because as I'm planning on doing the whole snob division - of 750K to 1MM homes. We are also interested in making the place look nice. Big piles of pushed dirty snow and ice don't fit that scenerio.
On the other hand, a blown sub has a very nice, well maintained appearance.
I'll add that I've never seen a commercial sidewalk clearing operation around here using a snowblower. It's always either a broom, blade, or loader bucket, and blading is fairly rare. Typically a small/medium skid-steer is used, though occasionally a large "garden tractor", especially with the brooms.(We typically get several feet of snow a year, though this year we've just barely managed to break one foot.)(Which leads to a worthwhile point: By all evidence weather patterns are changing, and fairly rapidly. It might be unwise to overinvest in snow-removal equipment right away -- perhaps better to just "get along" for a year or two with the minimum setup, see what works, and see which way the wind is blowing, so to speak.)
Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm but the harm does not interest them. --T.S. Eliot
No way would I use a large snowblower in a subdivision. Those things can pick up rocks and sling them a LONG way.
Note my comment about completely finished landscaping, full sidewalks and paved roads. Frankly, the only stones are found in various landscaping designs - away from the road. And the operator has full control of where it goes. Directional, distance, even the throttle on the tractor controls where it goes and how far.
I wouldn't use a snowblower on a tractor unless you have really large drifts that you can't push easily. Since you don't have your location in your profile, I don't know how much snow you have to deal with.
The Kubota comes with 4wd and full hydralics. It'll throw up to 50 ft. Littleton, CO. So far's this year we've had 75". Last year at this time we probably had 10". A bit less than 4 years ago, we had 54" in one dumping over 3 days. Coupla days before Xmas, we got 32" Most of that is still sitting in clumps, piles, and ruts. The city will come by 3 to 4 days after the snowfall - only to open ONE lane.
The front mounted blade will work well on roads. Same with the rear mounted one, although it's a bit more inconvenient.
Seriously, try both. If one has full 6way front function, you can't come close to the quality of grade, plow, smoothness that two blades offer. Perfect for grading gravel roads - even for a 16 hp machine. I did it for 16 years.
If you get a lot of snow and/or ice, tire chains will work miracles. I'd look for a set of them instead of the blower unless you have some seriously deep snow.
Frankly, I've never had a problem with the 4wd 16 hp machine, unless we were in an ice storm. Then I would simply put cable chains on the Miata's 4 wheels.
If the tractor doesn't have front wheel assist, I wouldn't suggest trying to plow snow with a front mounted blade.
BTW - A 24 HP tractor doesn't really seem big enough to me for a 6' blade.
Take a drive out to a Kubota dealer and try one out. The Japs have done an incredible job of engineering these machines. It's like a machine twice it's size. 25 years ago, with the 16 hp machine, I put a 5' Bush Hog on the back PTO and hitch and completely leveled a 10 acre site of small trees and heavy brush, turning them into toothpicks. Now that was without question overloading the machine, but even while blowing the black smoke under load, it handled the job admirably. Although I did get stopped real quick when I caught a stump and it bent that Bush Hog blade (what is it? 3/4 to 1 inch thick?) into a 90 degree bend. Had to get the torch out and redden it up to beat it back in shape. And it then completed the project without problem. The 16 horse machine came with a 5' front blade. The 6' on a 24 horse is nothing.
As always, dealer support is a big deal. Plowing snow is tough on equipment. You need a dealer who stocks stuff for YOUR brand in case you need something.
Seems to be a fair amount of Kubota dealers about. The out of town guy mentioned, simply has the better price.
"the only stones are found in various landscaping designs - away from the road."
Rocks can be carried in on car tires. And they can easily find thier way from landscaping out into the road.
Even pieces of wood can become projectiles.
"I've never had a problem with the 4wd 16 hp machine, unless we were in an ice storm."
Well, you *DO* have ice storms, don't you?
It does make a lot of difference if you're working on level ground or not.
"Take a drive out to a Kubota dealer and try one out. "
I've driven tractors for 40 year, and have driven most every brand and size there is. So my opinion stands.
BTW - Kubotas are considered toys around here.
Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life.
projectiles
An obviously good point you make. But the dampers on the end of the chutes temper that risk. Further tempered by it becomes a part of the agreement with the HOA that because of such risk, the residents are responsible for such projectiles. Meaning they alter their landscaping if necessary to eliminate the potential. (Remember, the HOA, can do and demand practically anything.) Beyond that, operator skill and liability insurance step in.
I don't plan on blowing snow in ice storms. However in the advent of snow following a storm, due to the levelness of the streets, the 4wd should have sufficent grip to blow. And chains are readily available. Now I would think a plow would not to maintain speed and control. Unless they too had chains.
I was weaned on tractors also. Ran the local farmers JD's beginning at 11 til I went away to college. I can certainly understand the opinion of "toys" compared to those beasts.
But this is the burbs. A snobdivision. Conventent controlled, etc. Thee South Park itself is a mile down the street. People must have pretty lawns and such and agree in writing that they will continue to do so. A farmer's tractor would be a fish out of water in this case.
But for the fun of it. Try one of these toys out sometime - while it's doing something you would normally think is way over it's head.
Thanks for your comments. They're good.
I have tried out some of the "toy" tractors, and my Uncle owns one. (Not a Kubota, though) They're fine for yard work, but I have a hard time getting excited about them for anything serious.I don't know if you've worked snow with tire chains on before, but I firmly believe it makes a world of difference. Sometimes we get ice just as the snow starts, or the first of the snow melts to the roads and freezes. In those cases there's just no substitute for the chains.Chains may be readily available now. But get a bad storm and everyone will be hunting for them, just like everyone is looking for generators when the power goes out.I'm still not comfortable with the idea of a snowblower and projectiles. Even if there's an agreement in place that covers projectiles, it will still create a hell of a lot of bad will.BTW - Does the tractor have a hydrostatic transmission? They sure are nice for blowing snow.
A lady is one who never shows her underwear unintentionally. [Lillian Day]
If I get it, I'll get chains as part of the deal. It is a hydro trans. I'm fond of the cab idea as well as the broom.
I think for your situation, the snowblower option seems viable. I would add a few thoughts:
Get a cab - you'll not regret it - its always cold when it snows
Get the chains when you buy the tractor
Buy the biggest tractor you can - 4wd 35 hp might be a good idea
Hydrostatic.
Bar tread tires, of course
A broom does great on sidewalks - it sounds like your clients would appreciate this.
I think your best bet would be to use your kubota for pulling out driveways with your box blade and blow it out on the lawn. I wouldn't blow a 1/2 mile of snow ever. I would use a backhoe for the job with a 8 to 12' blade with gates and that angles. Wing all your snow into windrows at the side of the road if possible. If not you'll have to do removal. The condos that I plow we have to remove all the snow ,in fact 60% of my contracts I do. Generally I do it with one of my loaders load it into dump trucks with or without ponys and my highway tractor with a 38' dump trailer. If Access is an issue I just use the dump trucks without ponies for manuvering.
Well I may sound harsh, but run do not walk run away!
I've read all the post, and with what your saying such as "snob division" etc. I think you are painting a picture thats going to end up as a train wreck.
I live where it snows and it can snow alot. (East slope northern Cascades) I've got a skidsteer with blower for my own driveway and it works but it's not ideal, but I've learned alot with it, such as you need to be a mechanic if you own machines and be willing to work in the snow slush ice etc, to fix shear pins drive chains etc. (I am tempted to go back to hiring it out) I've looked at the snow removal contacting thing and I've decided to stay away for a number of reason but I share with you a little that I know.
I know multiple contractor who are in the snow removal business but I'll share my experience of two of them one is a friend and the other clears my current jobsite. My jobsite guy has a 30 horse power John Deere, with 4wd and a blower. It moves snow and it's slow, the bummer is he's so light that if we drive on the driveway or parking area before he clears it he can't remove the snow any lower than our tire tracks, which quickly equates to if you slide off the tire tracks you drop into soft snow and can promptly get stuck. He doesn't have the weight to scrape up hard or packed snow. We need to then get a loader, or my skid steer into the jobsite to clean up what he can't do. The biggest problem is his machine is only a few years old and he is having break downs almost weekly, that result in him not blowing snow, thus we drive thru slop alot.
My friend has two plow trucks, a wheel loader with bucket, blade and large snow blower, and 4 articulated 4wd tractors in the 80 -100 Hp range with 6 foot blowers on them, he can move alot of snow, but he is always working on the machines and some cleints are always unhappy. It seems as if one machine is always broken, and when it's snowing he works non stop for days on end. I don't think he's making much if any money and he's billing out at over 100/ hour. He'll sell it all if you want to relocate.
In my expereince and based on my freinds, some snow you just can't blow, and some snow you just can't plow. and if it gets driven on it's a pain in the a__.
Think about where you'll blow the snow, it will make a mess on trees and in yards and don't buy the 50' thing conditions need to be ideal. With plowing you need someplace to put it all. And the liabilty of doing city/county roads, who'll get blamed in a wreck of for damage to the roads.
If you do do it, chage $500 per house then when you been working for 16 hours straight and you gone out and bought a plow for the truck and have a mechanic working over time and the fed ex bill for the new u joint arrives, you'll might at least be breaking even.
But then again what do I know
just my 2 cents,
Rob
Now that's a reality check!