Replies

1. 
   Mike_Smith | Apr 16, 2000 11:11pm | #1

   *
   ...i never got over it... and my last bath remodel was $14K... and i probably won't make what i planned on either..

   the numbers are always a rude awakening, but they have never lied to me... the only time i get in trouble is when i listen to the bad angel whispering in my ear to cut the price....

   ....i have never made too much money on a job.. but i have worked for free.. and even paid for the privelege of working on someone else's house...

1. 
   jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Apr 17, 2000 12:48am | #2

   *I'm with Mike. The numbers always seem WAY too high when I first add them up - then the next day, I think of something I missed. Here is something I learned from writing that I now apply to bidding. Once I come up with what I think is a finished bid, I set it aside for a couple days, then come back and go over it with fresh perspective. It's amazing what that little "cooling off period" can do for you. The thing is, when you say "I'll get you a price by the end of the week", you can't wait 'till the end of the week to do the bid, you have to bid it immediately, and then take a couple days for the cooling off period.

1. 
   Dan_Dear | Apr 17, 2000 01:52am | #3

   *After almost 30 years, I still occasionally say to myself after finishing a bid is: "WOW!" The difference now is that I don't say to myself anymore "I can't give them that price", and then proceed to screw myself by saying I can do that part in 4 hours instead of the 6 I estimated for, and like a jerk, changed it to 4 hours. Of course, that operation actually took 7 hours. After doing $75,000 master baths, $800,000 whole whose renovations, and $500 repair jobs that others would consider to be a $300 repair, I just say of myself: "Better check it over to make sure I allowed enough for everything and didn't forget something." And Jim's idea about coming back a day or so later to recheck it is a good idea. Once it's quoted, you can't go back on your word.Most of us tend to think in terms of our own value system, what we could afford or what we would pay, or our own economic status. I'm sure salesman who drive Dodge minivans to work don't bat an eye when telling Mr. Smith that the Mercedes convertible is $80,000 PLUS sales tax, title transfer, etc. Likewise,if you're a salesman who wears $20 shirts, you can't let it cloud your judgement when selling $100 shirts.Some of us never can get over it. So, we must be conscious of this problem and look at the bid as what it is - just another bid. All that matters is that the numbers are right and add up. Either they say "OK" or "You're nuts." As though when they say "You're nuts" they really know the labor, materials, overhead or anything else about running a company as ours.

1. 
   GACC_DAllas | Apr 17, 2000 05:02am | #4

   *Hey Rich,Ditto to everything said here so far.......Don't let the numbers scare you. They are what they are. It's not your fault that labor and material cost "X" amount. It cost what it cost. If it scares your client, then they shouldn't do the job. And if they want you to come down on the price, then YOU shouldn't do the job.Good Luck,Ed. Williams

1. 
   Jeff_J._Buck | Apr 17, 2000 05:49am | #5

   *First boss I had in a sales job was at a carpet cleaning co. He'd always start the sales pep talks (meetings) with...Don't be afraid of money, if ya are, ya won't make any! I still do think, wow!that added up to alot! But the trick is to not be afraid to charge what it takes. Don't be afraid of money. He also used to say...Don't come back(from a sales presentation) with broken belt loops! Years age he watched a cleaner price a job, then the little old lady told him how much SHE'D pay, and all the extra work she wanted done for the lower price. She led the guy around the house by putting her finger thru the belt loop on his jeans and dragged him room to room. At one point he stopped moving and she kept moving and pulled the belt loop off! She literally broke his belt loop. On the first few sales calls, he went with me , and if the customer started taking charge and adding work, he'd walk next to me and tug on my belt loops! That was 8 yrs ago, and I still mentally picture him there if I feel like I'm losing control of the presentation! Your numbers are big, and so are everyone else's if you bidding is done right and the other guy's are on the up and up. Don't be afraid of money, and keep your belt loops! Jeff

2. 
   Ryan_C | Apr 17, 2000 05:18pm | #6

   *It's hard to look a client in the face and tell them the price sometimes. But just keep telling yourself what a great deal you've got for them. Tell them what a good deal it is too. And, don't judge other people by your pocketbook. I've sold jobs that I knew no one would ever spend that kind of money on.

3. 
   James_DuHamel | Apr 21, 2000 08:31am | #7

   *I used to feel like Ryan. Sometimes it is hard to look a client in the eye when you give them the price.That all changed one day when I sold a job to a car salesman (of all people). It scared me little, and made me rethink my pricing. I figured if I sold a job that easily and quickly to a car salesman, then either my price was rock bottom low, or he thought he was getting the upper hand on the deal. He was being a typical car salesman, and I used an analogy to explain my price and quality. He was trying to beat me down on price, and I calmly told him that I was going to explain all of this to him in a manner that he could BEST understand. I told him that he asked me to build him a "Mercedes". Now he was trying to get me to sell him this "Mercedes" for the price of a "Yugo". I told him that I could sell him the job at the lower price, but he would not be getting the "Mercedes", he'd be getting the "Yugo". It would do exactly what it was supposed to do, with no frills, no extras, butt ugly, and cheap. Everyone who saw it would know that it was a "Yugo". I told him I could do the job cheaper, but that instead of a "Mercedes", we could lower the price and get a "Cadillac", or go even lower and get a "Chevrolet Caprice". The choice was his. I also told him that I calculate my pricing on what it costs me to do business, pay my overhead and expenses, and make a living. There was no large profit margins that I could deduct from in order to make a better deal. I explained that it would be like him selling a new car with a predetermined commission rate, and selling the car so cheap that he lost his commission, and made absolutely no money off of the sale. He looked me square in the eye and told me "Everything is negotiable". I politely told him not EVERYTHING is negotiable, and proceeded to pack up my bid paperwork and leave. He stopped me at the door and told me he'd think about it and get back with me. The next day I got a call to start work on his project. He told me he really wanted the "Mercedes", and realized that he'd just have to pay for a "Mercedes". I found out later that his wife made all of the monetary decisions at their house. She was impressed that I refused to barter with him, and that I didn't get mad or try to make excuses for why the price was higher than they thought it would be. She told me later "What do I know about this stuff. We just guessed at what we thought would be a reasonable price, and the actual price was a bit higher".Point is, stand your ground. You know what it costs to do the job, what your overhead is, and how much profit you need to make. Your bids will reflect this, and the less negotiating you actually do, the more the clients will start to understand that this is the price to do the job. Just a thought...James DuHamel

4. 
   jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Apr 21, 2000 01:14pm | #8

   *Yeah, and if they want a real cheap ass, low as you can go, snake belly price, you can even do a F*rd quality job.

5. 
   James_DuHamel | Apr 21, 2000 05:50pm | #9

   *Hey Jim,The guy worked for a GM dealership, so I used a product line he was familiar with. In any brand, ya have your upper lines, middle lines, and lower lines. The thought of this guy's whole attitude about "the art of the deal" still bothers me. His whole way of life is coming out on top of any deal he's involved in. I simply told him that in order to build the top notch project he asked me to build, the cost would be $xxx. If he wanted to pay a lot less, he would have to settle for a lot less project. He got my point, and his wife got tired of listening to him "wheel and deal". She told my wife that she lost out on a lot of things that she really wanted, and could afford, simply because he had to get involved and "try to get a better price" for her. Oh well...You ARE still coming to Pete's aren't ya? I get the feeling a lot of people are having second thoughts now that the time is fast approaching. I am looking forward to meeting you in person. Just a thought...James DuHamel

6. 
   jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Apr 22, 2000 05:18am | #10

   *Heck yeah, I'm goin'. Couldn't keep me from it. Stayin' at the Red Roof. You make reservations yet?

2. 
   Rich_Thompson | Apr 22, 2000 05:18am | #11

   *
   I'm just starting out on my own and I'm doing OK at bidding jobs. One fear I can't seem to get over is after I've come up with a price for a job I can't believe how much the numbers total up to. I almost automatically assume the client will be in shock when I tell them the price.The last job I bid I thought the guy was going to say I was crazy, but he said go ahead and do it without an argument. I was surprised to say the least. Now I'm bidding a bathrm. remodel that is coming close to $12000. Is feeling this way normal and will I get over it? Thank you for any replies.