I want to re-pipe the majority of a 1927 bungalow with new PVC supply. I would tie into the existing galvanized pipe for 1 bathroom and run new PVC to everything else. What is everyones experience with PVC? Will it stand the test of time? I will be working in a crawl space and want the ease of installation with pvc.
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Gotta use CPVC for the hot branches. Otherwise no problemeo
I don't know if my inspector was full of it but here in our county, Western NC, had to use cpvc for both hot and cold. Could use pvc to bring in supply but inside had to transition to cpvc. Pressure rating and interior diameter is better on pvc, go figure. My guys had roughed the whole house in pvc for cold, take it out. I read the cabo code in effect at the time and it basically did not list pvc as one of the interior approved items.
I was in both Macon Co. and Jackson Co. I did a add on waterline for a shed..when I tied in to the existing it was all CPVC..I thought maybe it was just easier than using two types of pipe..but you may be right. All of the other work I had done down there was copper. good point.
Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?
I think you mean CPVC....designed and rated for high temperature, potable water.
I've worked with it alot, and find it convenient to not have to sweat copper, but any threaded fittings, such as you would use to go from the CPVC to threaded copper, brass, or galvanized fittings...unavoidable in your case...are really WEAK, and can easily crack when you tighten them enough to make them water tight. Also very easy to get them cross threaded in a tight place. Some of these fittings have neoprene washers in them, another very weak point IMO.
For my next supply project, full bath, half bath, laundry, kitchen, two outside hose bibs, the runs will be in a crawl space, I'm going back to copper. The fumes from the CPVC primer and cement in a crawl space are tough to take.
You might want to consider biting the bullet, learn how to sweat copper, if you don't already know, and get a MAPP gas outfit with high capacity torch.
The pros these days are going to PEX tubing for supply...but they take a whole 'nother inventory of fittings, manifolds, and coupling tools that only pay if you do it for a living.
The electric meter panel will now not be grounded with plastic.
The water pipe is allowed to be only PART of the grounding system and need a second electrode anyway.
And it has to be connected with 5ft of where the pipe enters the building and has to have 10 ft (15? don't remember the exact number) of metal pipe in the ground to be used as part of the grounding system.
Any grounds that are connected to the water pipe, even steel or copper, that is more than 5ft from where it enter is dangerous and should be removed.
Edit, thanks for the catch.
And while I am editing it;
It was common practice and might have been code in years past when adding new grounded outlets to run a ground to the nearest water pipe. But with alots of chances to plastic it is no longer allowed. And plumbers have gotten shocked when working on pipes. While the section of pipe where the ground is might be still metal it might be plastic in the middle.
It is not something that I would rush down to the basement to fix to night, But when doing any plumbing or electrical work then plan on fixing it. Under the current code a separate ground wire can be run, but it has to go back to an other circuit that is properly grouned, back to the main pannel ground, or to the ground electrode system (and the first 5ft of water pipe might be that).
But there is another requirement. All metal piping needs to be bonded. So if have a section of metal pipe between two metal pipes you would put clamps on each metal pipe and run a jumper between them.
Edited 1/26/2004 1:10:25 PM ET by Bill Hartmann
Edited 1/26/2004 1:18:33 PM ET by Bill Hartmann
Did you mean removed for your last word?
Check with your inspector. Even CPVC is not allowed in my town. Copper, and now, PEX, only. Ironically, I can buy CPVC in my town, just can't use it!
Bear
One thing to consider with CPVC is that you are supposed to use special 'expansion' transition fittings on the hot lines, whenever transitioning to/from metal.
Also, from experience, when transitioning from old steel, use a new brass or steel nipple/coupler to receive the plastic threaded fitting. You want nice new threads for the plastic to bite on. Alternately you can tap or die the old threads to clean them up.
Use teflon tape on the plastic threads.
When joining CPVC, the most common problem is using too much cement in the female fittings, which results in a glob of melted PVC being plowed out into the fitting, partially obstructing things. Takes a bit of practice to get this balance right. Careful reaming of the outer ridge after cutting helps with this too.
Another consideration is that CPVC is relatively brittle compared to other materials. It will shatter if subjected to impact, and it is easy to abrade through. This is evident whenever you goto to store, and see how many pieces of pipe on the rack are broken or damaged. Inspect every piece carefully. Regular PVC is less brittle. PEX is way tougher.
One of my upcomings in my house (when the freeze danger is over) is I will be re-plumbing just about the whole place. The current set up is CPVE from what I know it is not right..1'' in from city water..ABS witha brass compression to threaded. Right there the guy went to 1/2 cpvc for everything. At this time it is all broken, froze and shattered. No big deal I ws gonna change it all anyway to 3/4 maintrunk with my 1/2 runners from there, add pressure regulater , filter sys, etc.
What I had toyed with is switching over to PEX..I have NO collection of fittings like I do Copper and pvc..I am not totally familiar with the stuff, except I don't like it near shut off valves, it is not solid enough for my likes..So if I chose pex how bad is the learning curve and expense of fittings and crimpers?
I re plumbed a house last year all copper..I am real good with that..is there a major advantage to pex?
Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?
There are some posters who run PEX all time. From what I gather, the main advantage is you plain don't need near as many fittings because you can loop and hang the stuff more like wiring. The savings is in labor. I guess they develop a system of a centrally located manifold and run all home-runs from the manifold to each fixture....or a main manifold and some sub-manifolds.
But a DIYr, to do this, has to get the tools to make the connections at fixtures and manifolds. And I suppose the manifolds. So a whole new inventory of tools and parts.
Thats kinda what I was thinkin..the house has only 2 wet walls and I am gonna have them open any way..so bite the bullet and make the switch..I guess..actually I would like to try sumtin new..copper is old, pvc is a cheap way but I don't always like it when fittings start getting too close together. Pex CAN freeze and thaw right?..that might sell me in its own..if it can freeze and not crack I am sold.
Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?
It's tough stuff...there is another thread from a guy that froze his PEX supply plumbing. Didn't hurt the tubing, but did wreck some of the fittings.
Right now, I have a loop of PEX frozen in my garage slab, not up where it goes into the manifold, but somewhere along the coldest edge. System pressure is maintaining at 14 lbs, other two loops are carrying the load.
Maybe a true wethead will wade in here with pricing etc of all the stuff you'd need to tool up with to do PEX suply plumbing. If it's not too dear, I'd like to try it myself. I don't relish laying on my back sweating copper, and getting 10' lengths of 3/4" copper into the crawl in the first place.
In some areas of the country it's not permitted, in others it or PEX are necessary due to agressively corrosive water.
It works fine, but it is more fragile than any alternative. You definitely need the special transition fitting (which looks somewhat like a union) going from CPVC to metal anywhere on hot water (valves, water heater, etc.). I'd recommend them all over. The first time I used CPVC was in a house that had a tankless water heater. The heater malfunctioned and I got steam out the shower head. Every place in the house where I had CPVC screwed to something metal on the hot water line leaked. I had to rip out walls to fix it.
Even though the mistake was mine for not using the correct transition fitting, it soured me on plastic piping, and I've used copper since then.