Our plumber is laying some pipe in the yard of our rental property to connect to a malfunctioining french drain or clogged old storm drain. He agreed to use PVC pipe but when we visited the work site he had used what looks like black plastic coragated(spelling?) pipe. When we questioned his decision he said that the landscaping store that sold it to him said it is as strong as PVC. Now he says he called the store back and they said that the 6 inch N12 pipe they sold him IS a type of PVC pipe and that all PVC is not white. Does this sound plausible to any of you? We ar concerned it will crush too easily. This is getting way above my pay grade. Thanks.
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Replies
I think any reasonable person when they hear PVC would expect to see a white pipe.
The black corrugated pipe may be (I don't know) a pvc product, but that is not what he quoted.
The black corrugated pipe is designed for what you are doing. It will be fine to be buried (probably not across a drive though).
But again, that is not what you both agreed would be used.
Is he working time and material? probably saved you some money.
Did he quote you a price for the work? Probably made him some extra money.
He changed the scope of work.
TFB (Bill)
Edited 8/19/2009 7:25 pm by ToolFreakBlue
What Bill said.The corrugated stuff is commonly called "Big O" around here. It is made for subterranean drainage.It's one weak quality is that, because it is floppy and corrugated, it tends to easily follow crests and troughs in the trench, forming low spots where water settles. White PVC is more rigid so it tends to hold a grade better.Scott.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. He has removed part of the driveway to run the pipe across it in order to reach the creek that the water will drain into. We plan to repour the cement over the pipe to replace the driveway when the job is completed. Will that crush the black pipe? Thanks.
Frankly, I don't know.How deep below the pavement is the top of the pipe?How is the soil compacted around the pipe?TFB (Bill)
I'll have to ck more closely tomorrow.
BTW- he quoted the price for the work.
Black corr. pipe is PE ( Poly ethylene) and PVC is poly vinyl Chloride.
Big price diff in 6" size, esp fittings. If he played stupid and said "Thats what they said" he's not a real plumber. Or not a real honest one.
It will probably do the job, but it ain't what was asked for.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"
Jed Clampitt
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Appreciate your reply. A part of the driveway was cut out in order to run the pipe to a creek. Will the pipe be crushed when we repour the cement over the pipe to replace the driveway? Thanks.
Not if it's done right.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Buried deep enough and covered with enough cementitious material it should be fine, unless ya drive a concrete truck home everyday and park on it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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I would agree with most of the others that it's probably not PVC. But when you said "PVC" he may have simply heard "plastic", or he may have figured you didn't know what you're talking about. For the stated purpose the black corrugated stuff is probably fine, and is what most plumbers would have used, I suspect, unless the pipe is under a gravel roadway or some such where it needs to withstand more force.
And... to make things a little more complicated. There is a rigid pipe that is inbetween the two. It is pretty rigid and is for rain water drainage.
That material is what I would have used. And it is white. On the outside. ;^)
Will Rogers
if the pipe use for french drain or drainage its the correct pipe to use, its very strong, you can drive dump truck over it. But if using for sewer pipe its the wrong pipe. normally plumbers do not do french drains, that site contractor jobs, plumbers do sewers.if its french drain, dont worry about it, its the correct pipe
if there no weight on it, it will pop out of the ground, not contractor fault, they just do. Its design to be cheaper than concrete storm sewer pipe and does the same job. we have no problems with it
"We are concerned it will crush too easily"
Stick to your guns - you are correct.
Jeff
Between the fact that it tends to have low spots and the corrugated design, if the water contains debris, it is more likely to clog than PVC.If there are any fittings (couplings or "T"'s) and it is anywhere near trees or other plants with aggressive roots, it is an open invitation since the fittings are rather loose, snap together pieces. The tree will say "Hooray! Free water." but you will be cursing as you try to get it snaked out without cutting the drain to shreds.
The black corrugated is not PVC it is PE.
Sold here and a lot of places as ADS pipe after one of the major manufacturers..
Fine for drainways , but will, as others said, follow trench contours. Not at all acceptable under road ways, drive ways etc.
It will not stand any where near the compression that PVC will unless placed and back filled very carefully. Larger diameters 8" and up) are better in the compression dept.
I find this discussion about how strong the pipe is kind of funny. Drive a truck over most normal pvc and it will break, unless you have some XXH pipe which when most folks see the price, they choke.
The corrugated pipe won't break. Crush yes, but not break.
Black corrugated pipe is not PVC (Poly Vinyl Chloride). It is High-density polyethylene (HDPE). Or at least what they sell around here is. It is not as strong as PVC, which in your case would probably be either sched 30 or sched 40. There is also some cheaper PVC drain pipe, but I haven't seen it in 6".
The black corrugated does fine for underground drainage as long as has enough cover dirt on it (say a foot) and is not exposed to repeated vehicular traffic - vehicular traffic being cars, trucks, heavy equipment, but something like a riding lawn mower is fine. Septic systems use the black corrugated stuff all the time - do you think municipalities would allow the installation of septic systems that will self destruct? The 6" I've used is significantly tougher than the regular 4" too. Being under the concrete will protect the pipe even more than just cover dirt, again assuming there is good cover dirt between the concrete and the pipe. Sometimes you see 12" black corrugated used in the right of way under driveways - here, I'm pretty sure it is DOT approved - anything in the ROW has to be DOT approved.
The only down side to using corrugated pipe is that since it isn't smooth inside, it clogs with leaves and debris easier - although I really doubt if you will have trouble with a 6" pipe clogging assuming you have a significant of water running through it on occasion.
So, while the black pipe will be fine for your application, I'd be looking for a discount price as the black is significantly cheaper than rigid PVC.
dont forget there are two type of corrgated black pipe. one they sell at lowes that cannot hold weight, and those sold at piping supply houses that can hold a dumptruck. what type does he have?
Edited 8/19/2009 9:41 pm by brownbagg
this is the pipe I,m talking about
I see that others have mentioned that it is HPE.
But here are the specs.
http://www.ads-pipe.com/en/product.asp?productID=112
But I don't like the idea of it being used for a surface water. Not in the smaller sizes.
Dirt and leaves and the like will get caught in the groves. And stuff can grow.
And if it blocks there is no easy way to clean it out.
I would at least demand that the section under the driveway be a solid, smooth wall pipe, and have a cleanout at the transition.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe