Seem to be getting a lot of soffit/rake/eave repair jobs lately. Rotted primed pine is what usually comes off; I will put back up either cellular PCV or painted composite ( e.g. miratec). Sometimes I will pull out the brake and wrap a few pieces in aluminum, if it is only a few pieces of an already wrapped house.
Price is usually not in the equation; i tend to steer homeowners towards the PVC if the trim is white or a composite if is to be painted.
What do you prefer and why, in terms of ease of installation and longevity? Looks don’t seem to matter so much 30′ off the ground.
Replies
My favorite detail is a 2x6 sub-fascia with a bevel on to that matches the roof pitch so I can get some extra fastening between the rafters.
Then, vinyl or aluminum soffit recieved by an "f" channel against the house.
Finally, I'll bend my coil stock (PVC coated preferrably) to turn under the soffit 1", up the face of the 2x6, then turn up the roof about 3" or so. Cap that off with I&W, and start running starter-strip for your shingles.
Now the gutters can back up till the cows come home, and the leading edge will be none the worse for wear.
If you're in a climate where ice dams are an issue, consider running up the roof a little further.
Will probably be some here that disagree with this system, but I've yet to see it fail.
David
You guys use drip edge?
Your fascia system combines drip and fascia with the top flange bent up the roof pitch.
I like to bend fascia with a 1/2" hem on the bottom lip along with the 1" lip for the soffit.
I also hem the top and use my brake buddy to put a stripe down the middle.
Much stiffer than a stock piece of fascia, oil cans much less. Woods favorite carpenter
I absolutely DESPISE drip-edge, and will not even bid a job where the powers-that-be insist on using it. Far as I can tell, it is one of the most useless homebuilding accessories ever marketed.
I love the hem detail, but the brake I currently own doesn't make one. (older Tapco Porta-brake) Never used a brake buddy either, but have seen excellent results from them.
With my system, the 2 bends (roof & soffit) usually add the necessary rigidity to minimize "oil-canning". What they don't take care of, the gutter does.
I know these responses sound a little coarse, but I've spent way too much time grieving over leading edge details that no one else on the freakin planet even see. My attitude these days is more toward maintenance free trim that will protect the wood underneath and last a very long time.
Now, if they insist on a per foot price for 12" clear redwood...Live in the solution, not the problem.
Your made up fascia sounds like it'll do the trick nicely. I like to wrap any wood trim instead of painting it. Much more maintainence free.
A large C-channel would be fairly rigid.
How come your brake won't bend hems? Care to explain why? Most anything with jaws can. Not sure why yours wouldn't.
Woods favorite carpenter
Edited 12/25/2007 7:19 pm ET by MattSwanger
As I said, it's an older model that just doesn't have that feature. I'll try to get a picture later this week to better explain.
I'd love to be wrong about this, but this is the same style of brake I cut my teeth on in the 80's and we couldn't do it then.
I remember when the boss finally got a Pro-Brake and was amazed by the hem ability. It really stepped our quality up a couple of notches.
Several years back I bought one just like it but had to unload it during some "tough times". My current model was almost a gimme that I couldn't refuse.Live in the solution, not the problem.
Take some pictures if you would.
If your brake can make a bend then it should be able to make a hem.
Woods favorite carpenter
I don't know if any of you have the software for it but it sure would be nice to see a sectional view if what you are talking about. Most of my home building experience was in So Cal so I don't know squat about this stuff. In So Cal everything was wood and the details didn't matter much.
On the front of my present house the soffit looks terrible. It needs replacing. I could do the woodworking but bring in someone to do the metal/pvc stuff. A drawing of the details you are talking about would be really helpful.
at the risk of sounding dumb, can someone tell me what "oil canning" is
waves / ripples...
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WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Nothing dumb about a legitimate question.
Oil canning is when the aluminum wrap ripples or has waves in it.
One tell tale sign is when you see gaps between the drip edge and the aluminum fascia.
Woods favorite carpenter
>> Finally, I'll bend my coil stock (PVC coated preferably) <<
Question: What are the long term implications of PVC coated coil stock. I mean for 8, 10 or 12 years it looks great and the washability can't be beat. I wonder what happens 20 or 25 years down the road? I mean, I assume it's not paintable?
Thoughts from anyone?
Not sure why you would want to paint it Matt.
Probably be cheaper to have new bent up and installed.
Woods favorite carpenter
Maybe not...
On a vinyl job the metal is 10% of the surface area and 40% of the labor cost. Materials aren't much $.
Thats just my opinion, why bother with prepping and painting? When it takes almost no time to bend new up.
I can't paint to save my life either. That might be why I lean towards new metal.
A new roll of PVC coil is running me about $70 now, I also know that S&W Duration is running about $150 a 5 gallon bucket. I would bid something cheaper to reinstall and bend metal based on material costs alone.
Most painters do 2-3 coats here and I would be gone by noon. Woods favorite carpenter
If paint down the road is a possibility, you might consider the smooth coil. It's still not a great idea because of the thermal movement.
He!!, who am I to talk, I'm getting ready to paint an entire Al sided house!Live in the solution, not the problem.
you don't use something for a drip edge? but I like the idea of bringing the soffit wrapping up under the roof instead of just slipping it under the drip edge.
Yea, there's not enough time to tell all my dislikes about drip-edge. Give this a try sometime on a small project like a garage or outbuilding.
What are you really gaining with drip-edge anyway?Live in the solution, not the problem.
I thought the kick out on drip edge is what directs water into the gutter instead of running down the facia
You're right, and with a good brake, that detail can be included in the one-piece design.
I just choose not to do it, opting rather for a slightly longer shingle overhang.Live in the solution, not the problem.
I used your modified C wrap on my shop and kennel/studio buildings. Both have metal roofs, so the turn up onto the first purlin also gave me a nice smooth surface for the bug/bird stop strip. The L on the bottom edge is 1 1/2" and hemed 1/2".
I ripped the subfacia board to match the roof pitch on the kennel bldg after doing the shop with a square edge on the shop. It sure makes a slick worry free detail, particularly on a metal roof where there is no drip edge.
I currently have a garage blacked in, and am getting ready to run and wrap the soffit. The framer let the roof sheathing overhand the subfacia about 1"
How would you handle this?
Rip the sheathing back flush to the subfacia and then run the C wrap?
Brake the metal for a normal L installation and then add a kind of reverse J at the top to match the bottom of the sheathing ? This would then require a drip edge to cover the edge of the sheathing.
I'm looking for a better way to address the water curl problem.
What do you think?
Dave
Personally, I'd have to rip the sheathing back flush with the fascia. I'd rip it on the roof pitch bevel if it were steeper than a 3/12.
By the time you do a multiple-parts wrap, you've probably got more time in it than it would take to set up and cut the rip.
If I can make a one piece wrap work at all I'll generally do it.
For me, it's always been about preventing the damage caused by backing up gutters, and the one piece solution has seemed to work well. I'm way less concerned about how the water gets INTO the gutter--gravity and an appropriate shingle overhang will take care of that.
Just my experience.Live in the solution, not the problem.
With your wrap method you have to have the soffit and fascia completed before the shingles go up.
When it comes time to reroof do you have to replace all that fascia wrap when the tearoff crew finishes?
Probably because we have to have a 4" wide strip of roofing cement applied to the entire perimeter of the roof before shingling I can see losing the wrap just like we lose all the drip edge during a reroof.
Also, we have a new code provision that requires a nailoff inspection of the entire roof whenever there is a reroof. That includes both perimeter and field nailing compliance that you couldn't get with your method without completely wrecking your fascia wrap.
Good points Ralph. I'm not sure where you are, but 4" perimeter bonding and nail-off inspections haven't reached my neck of the woods yet (mercifully).
Ideally I like to put an 18" run of I&W over the top of the wrap that the first few rows of shingles will cover. If a conscientious roofer like Hazlett (exception to the stereotypical roofer I understand) does the next tearoff, and sees the I&W intact, he would most likely leave it alone as best he could. In a perfect world right.
I'd have to argue the point with any inspector that if the time was taken to seal up the leading edge in such a tight manner, surely it was properly nailed. A simple walk-over by a 200# man would quickly reveal if an issue were present.
I'd kill to see an inspector on a 10/12.Live in the solution, not the problem.