Replies

1. 
   Scott | Jan 04, 2010 03:10pm | #1

   >>>I am leaning towards just rewiring - is that an overreaction?

   "Just rewiring" sounds like an extremely costly proposition. How would you do it? Tear down all the drywall?

1. 
   aimless | Jan 05, 2010 12:47am | #4

   Rewiring isn't cheap. But
   Rewiring isn't cheap. But weighed against the lives of my children and the fact that I hate shopping and don't want to have to buy new stuff, it becomes affordable.

2. 
   cap | Jan 04, 2010 03:18pm | #2

   My recommendation is to rewire, if the budget allows.

   Having the splices re-made with the Copalum system would allow you to sleep soundly at night, but IMO, it's a band-aid...with Copalum splices, you've still got the device terminals. If you keep the aluminum wiring, every device (switch and recpeacle outlet) and fixture connection ought to be checked. That's because, even with CoAlr devices, I've observed that aluminum wire terminal connections loosen up over time. I recommend that aluminum wiring device connections be checked every few years (more often for heavily-used receptacles).

   In contrast, re-wiring with copper means that once the job is done (and done right), it's pretty much maintenance-free for decades. I've seen a lot of copper wire installations that are 70 or more years old, and everything is still right and tight.

   As to the pricing, the difference in price could be due to one of many factors, or a combination:

   --as your agent is assuming, it's the address. What's wrong with that? A more affluent neighborhood usually means the market will bear a higher price (also, more affluent clients often have higher expectations, requiring more time to do the job);

   --maybe the sparky under-priced the previous job (to make the profit he wanted to make), and he's adjusting on this one;

   --the sparky may be busier now (I'm seeing that business is up, as the economy is recovering. Also things get busier as you get out of the holidays and into the new year.) Economists call it demand-based pricing, I think; when demand is high, prices can be increased. It's not uncommon, for instance heating and AC service companies will sometimes discount service prices at slow times.

   Keep in mind if you choose to get bids for a total re-wire that as a rule, the lower the bid, the more holes the electricians are going to make in the walls and ceilings to run the new wire. And repair of the damage is almost always left to the client, who then faces the additional cost of hiring a drywall/plaster contractor and a painter.

   If that's O.K., great.

   Good luck.

1. 
   aimless | Jan 05, 2010 12:45am | #3

   Thanks very much for the detailed answer. I was considering rewiring because based on the reading I've done the "remedy" for Al wiring keeps changing, and if somebody had done two of them over the years then they paid for the rewire. In our case, the rewire is not the total house but 5 circuits, the rest is copper. Plus, when we sell the house down the road it won't be a question - it will be done. And I'll sleep better. I'm not afraid of holes in the drywall - I've dealt with them before, plus we are planning to replace some of the drywall anyway due to moisture damage. A rewire would also give us the opportunity to add a couple more outlets and maybe a dedicated circuit for my office. And maybe a 220 for the shop...and so it begins.

   I understand higher pricing based on the address, I wasn't expecting a premium 2/3 higher. Your explanation makes sense to me, and it is probably a combination of factors.

1. 
   Snort | Jan 05, 2010 08:46am | #5

   Aimless,

   You might try asking Andy Clifford at Clifford Renovations for another electrician's name. Alias, TGNY, SGHLAW also live on L.I., but, I can't figure out how to address a post to them in this new, improved format.

1. 
   Lansdown | Jan 05, 2010 05:15pm | #6

   Hey Snort, just landed on this alien planet, everything looks so weird here, like an acid flash-back... Anyways I highly recommend a firm on the island by the name of "Two Gang". Hope all is well, give my best to Sherry.

1. 
   calvin | Jan 05, 2010 05:32pm | #7

   Hey Stranger!

   They let you out of jail?

   How's parole.

   .

   .

   .

   .

   .

   ..

   .

   .

   .

   .

   that aught to get the original poster in a tizzy.

   nah, she's been around.

2. 
   Lansdown | Jan 05, 2010 05:37pm | #8

   I'm only out on day leave.
   I'm only out on day leave. Hope all is well in Maumee Cal.

   Read about Rez, man that sucks.

3. 
   calvin | Jan 05, 2010 05:49pm | #9

   Yes, a good man cut down in his prime-quickly.

   As we get older these lessons of life pop up more often. Sometimes wonder what the next smack in the face will be.

   But you can't sit around oggling nude babes at the strip joint. You have to get out there and make a difference.

   So that's what we've been doing. The getting out there part.

   Business has been good, future looks both bright and haunting. Don't know what to make of it all, just keep answering the phones and attempting to earn their respect.

   edit: Fuck this HTML shit. I tried to italicize and bold "their". left spaces and all that. Fuck them. They (all of em) tell you how it's no big deal and everyone INCLUDING us dumb carpenters can do it with ease.

   Well, I got your ease right here.

   What in the hell makes this so difficult?

   Christ, if I ran my business like they run this place I'd be best standing well off the road at the interstate ramp so I didn't get run over.

4. 
   Snort | Jan 05, 2010 09:15pm | #10

   Sherry says "?????? ?? ho"
   Sherry says "Привет Ди ho" LOL!

5. 
   Lansdown | Jan 05, 2010 09:53pm | #11

   Oh yeah! Well you tell her : Большое спасибо

6. 
   aimless | Jan 08, 2010 12:08pm | #12

   Hey, thanks for the recommendation! I'll give them a call and say TGNY sent me :)

2. 
   andybuildz | Jan 08, 2010 03:32pm | #13

   Call my sparky if you want...he's REALLY good.

   Very meticulous and his prices are fair.

   His names Jim (Solid Electric) 631 445-9518.

   Tell him Andy Clifford (from the Kaylin job) sent you.

   Anything else just ask away.

   Hope allz going well.

3. 
   Amish Electrician | Jan 09, 2010 12:58pm | #14

   Listening to either a realtor or a home inspector ... well, IMO, those businesses exist so that weathermen and astrologers will feel better when their advice goes astray.

   Aluminum wiring in an existing house is no big deal. Were there a problem in your house, it probably would have burned down by now. Indeed, the repeated examinations have probably created damage!

   First, a few clarifications: The HI is simply wrong. The CPSC site is, at the minimum, dated; it was questionable at the time it came out.

   Second: The realtor was off-base in telling you the electrician had charged someone else a different price. It's possible the sparky lost money on that other job, or that the details differ at your place.

   Now, for the REAL story:

   The use of aluminum wiring on small circuits didn't work out too well. The argument still rages today as to exactly where the fault for that lies. Even installation practices are the subject of debate.

   One fact that doesn't change is that aluminum is different from copper. That is, you have to use a larger size wire, and the wire is much more likely to break when flexed or bent. In practical terms, this means that it's very possible that the fuse/breaker on your circuits is too large for the wire. It's also very likely that the wire will break as it's removed from the old receptacles.

   It was common, at the same time aluminum was used for small circuits, that the ground wire was an even smaller wire. When you open the box, it is very, very likely that the wire will break where it is crimped to the other ground wires. This makes the repair very difficult, as there usually isn't any extra wire in the box.

   There ARE options besides the copalum connectors. Indeed, the maker of the copalum connectors seems to be doing his best to remove that product from the market. Thomas & Betts has some black wire nuts that are CSA approved for joining copper to aluminum. King Innovations has, since the CPSC study was published, developed their connectors for this use. The problem is that there may not be enough room in the box for these splices and pigtails to be added.

   Yet, there's no getting around that there will be some such splices made. This is because there are no GFCI devices approved for use with aluminum wires.

   My first choice is to leave everything alone. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Absent evidence of loose connections and overheating splices, leave it be.

   The next-best option is to completely replace all the wiring in the house. This you can do in stages, as you remodel, etc. Our lives, and the code requirements, have changed quite a bit since the early 70's. As a result, when you remodel you will also have to make some pretty significant wiring changes anyway. You might as well fix it all at that time.

   Opening every box and replacing the devices, etc., is a last resort. You're likely to cause more damage than you fix in the process. In some places, like the bath and kitchen, you'll need to do this in order tio add GFCI receptacles - but the sparky might also find it necessary to add a "Wiremold" box on the face of the wall, just to be able to mount the receptacle.

   This would seem to be the exact situation for which AFCI breakers were developed, but I am not yet convinced that the technology really performs as claimed.

1. 
   aimless | Jan 10, 2010 11:59pm | #15

   Thanks for the answer - it was very clear. The reason we had an electrician look at it is because I'd rather talk to a person who is an expert in the field than the generalist that is a home inspector.

   My concern with leaving it alone is that I understand the danger goes up with use, the AL wire becomes more brittle and more likely to cause a problem, so even though it has been fine for 40 years it could not be fine tomorrow.

4. 
   SteveInCleveland | Jan 11, 2010 09:27am | #16

   I would be curious what your homeowner's insurance agent would say.