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Q: Property Tax Assessments

Nuke | Posted in General Discussion on May 7, 2006 03:37am

I have not been in my house six (6) years, yet. The first full-year tax assessment was a $2350 burden to me. I do not know if a re-assessment occurred or not (never received notification), but that amount changed to $2800 two years ago. I now have received a formal notification and the new assessed value is 23.4% higher than five years ago. That would make the taxes $3450. I am in Gwinnett County, Georgia, but I really wish sometimes I had bought in Forsythe county because it is a ‘white flight’ county for good reason (much lower property taxes).

I will now be paying more than my water, electricity, and natural gas combined. Anyway, how frequent are all of you seeing your properties being reassessed? And before you ask, I have not done a damn thing to upgrade or increase in value my property. I am still too busy repairing the poor construction that the county allowed for and actively encouraged to be able to ‘upgrade’.

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  1. TomMGTC | May 07, 2006 03:53pm | #1

    In GA the assessment does not always change in proportion to the tax rate. The millage rate is often adjusted. You can appeal the assesment (which I have done successfully twice). Check with your county to find out the exact procedure in your area. Last year my assesment went up but my taxes were less because the surrounding areas assesment went up at a higher rate and the millage rate was adjusted.

    This really is an area that needs some sort of reform since the assesment numbers can be pretty arbitrary.  

    Tom

    Douglasville, GA

    1. User avater
      Nuke | May 07, 2006 04:04pm | #2

      Hey Tom, I am somewhat familiar with the procedure. After the first year we tried to appeal the assessment at the time and were unsuccessful. Honestly, I do not think Gwinnett deserves anymore of my money. I'm leaving and following other whities to the white-flight county of Forsythe.

      Given that the 2000 report by the department of education showing Gwinnett spending 77% of county tax revenue on public schools, I would imagine by comparative evaluation that all the children of Forsythe county homeowners to be illiterate considering how much lower their property taxes are.

      Gwinnett county does not like nor want homeowners without children.

      1. Dave45 | May 08, 2006 04:13pm | #28

        Nuke -

        Your situation sounds like what led to Proposition 13 here in CA in 1979.  Property taxes were skyrocketing and some people on fixed incomes were forced to sell their homes and leave the county.

        The educational establishment still has their knickers in a twist about Prop. 13.  It's blamed for almost every school funding problem that exists.

        Personally, I think it's a pretty fair system now.  Houses are reassesed when they're sold and the tax burden is set.  Thanks to Prop. 13, the annual increases are tightly controlled.

        1. User avater
          Luka | May 08, 2006 04:49pm | #29

          Taxation WITH representation isn't so hot, either.
          The destination is not the point. The completion is not the point. Enjoy today. If you can't enjoy today, then what is the point ?

          1. User avater
            Nuke | May 08, 2006 06:41pm | #32

            There is such a thing as tag representation? Let me go get those tea bags I just threw into the river. :)

        2. User avater
          Nuke | May 08, 2006 06:40pm | #31

          Dave, the property values are not skyrocketing except in the eyes of the tax assessor. That's my whole point in getting third-party appraisals since the county has no basis for this. There isn't a house on my street that has ever sold for $300K, and most sold for $200-250K.

          I'm leaning toward a condition in which the tax assessor simply can artificially conclude what a property is worth based on revenue needs. Nothing more. There have been three resales of properties on my street and all three were for a loss. As such, how can value be going up based on this totality of re/sale evidence?

          If the county says the property is worth 25% more than the market says it is worth, it cannot be re/sold without someone making a really desperate or stupid buying decision as they are not going to easily find a 128% LTV mortgage. And that is what would make it difficult.

          I'm now wondering if this has something to do with that Evil-Mart !1.25 miles from my subdivision. First, they sought to not make the public awareness (seriously, the treed and graded the lot without any public notification, which surprising is against county code--but then again it was probably graded by one of the county commissioners).

          And this isn't the normal 'your taxes are going up' notification, but rather a special notification. Property showed a tax increase last year--so they are accelerating the evaluations not only ahead of market reality but ahead of their own normal scheduling. Who the heck can afford a 24% property tax increase annually?

          1. TomMGTC | May 08, 2006 06:43pm | #33

            So have you filed your appeal yet?Tom

            Douglasville, GA

          2. brownbagg | May 08, 2006 07:43pm | #35

            condition in which the tax assessor simply can artificially conclude what a property is worth based on revenue needs.that the way it is here. It cost me $6000 to build my metal shop bldg. everything, had recepts. county say I could not build it less than $18,000. I pay taxes on $20,000 more than I ever could sell my house. They dont care They are the wolves looking for the well fare of the sheep.

  2. davidmeiland | May 07, 2006 04:05pm | #3

    Here the cycle is three years. Our assessment doubled when the man came by last year. The rates went up a little bit too. Rate-wise we are paying about 1% of assessed value. I know that everyone else got significant hikes, but we can't see any increase in county services.

    1. User avater
      Nuke | May 07, 2006 04:25pm | #4

      I can only imagine the growth in revenue demand is, as it has been the past 40-years for Gwinnett, educational. When I found records dating back that far, the amount of county revenue spent on the public school system was ~45%, but in 2000 it was 77% and still climbing.

      Because of the increasing smaller portion going to 'everything else' the observed results of property tax growth seems 'hidden'. This isn't an argument for/against education, but how it can drive county operation (decision-making) to offend some. One of the original reasons why Gwinnett became attractive was lower cost per child to educate, meaning lower property taxes when compared to the Atlanta. They cannot say this now.

      I just think that if a burden becomes so extensive as to exceed your basic utilities (not talking phone, cable, broadband, etc.) then there is a major problem. And Gwinnett county has shown itself to be very aggressive in hyper-assessing your property beyond what everyone else thinks it is worth. But then maybe that is the key. I'll have the house appraised, which I know will appraise for less than the county as valued it at.

    2. Lansdown | May 07, 2006 04:32pm | #5

      Exactly the same story in Eastern Long Island. 1% assessment with a hefty increase and no discernible increase in services. Have until the 16th to appeal it, but with the overheated real estate market, an appraisal would probably do more harm.

  3. User avater
    BillHartmann | May 07, 2006 05:38pm | #6

    That $2350 is not you tax assesment. It is the assested taxes.

    There are two factors, the tax rate and the assested evaluation.

    In MO the evaluations are suppose to be re-assested every two years. And notice of the new evaluation is mailed along with statement that it can be appealed.

    And while the assested evaluation is suppose to be "market based" for many reasons it is more of a genric value than true market value. Based on things like sq ft and number of bedrooms. It is probably fairly reasonable in places where the houses are more or less uniform.

    But I have on a small residential lake that was started 80 years ago with summer cabins and how is all full time homes. WIDE variation is age, size, and quality of homes. Some of the evaluations are way off.

    From the market evaluations a tax evaluation is computed at a certain percentage rate. That rate is different for different types of properties (single family/small appartents, multi-unit apparents over so many units, commercial, and ag).

    The the tax rates are applied to that each year. In MO the rates have to be adjusted so that the amount collected is the same as the last year plus an amount allowed for growth and for new improvements.

    However, some of the basic tax rates are of a not to exceed type and I think that they can increase those with in that range.

    So taxes change every year even when the property is not re-assesed.

    1. User avater
      Nuke | May 07, 2006 06:23pm | #10

      Bill, thanks for the correction. Reading the notification closely it is acknowledging that last year the 40% appriased value was $98,320 and this year it is $122,400. That is a 24.49% increase. With a Homestead and Offset Exemption, I'm figuring the new tax burden is at least $3627. That would be a +$800 increase.

      1. TomMGTC | May 07, 2006 07:23pm | #17

        I doubt they have set the millage rate for the year yet so how do you know what your tax bill will be. You are assuming that the rate remain the same and it often doesn't. If you have a recent appraisal that shows a lower vakue than the assessors came up with, then appeal it. Not sure if it is the same in gwinnet, but in douglas co you can take it all the way to a jury to decide.  Tom

        Douglasville, GA

        1. User avater
          Nuke | May 07, 2006 07:45pm | #18

          I don't know. I can only go on last year's rate. I doubt that the assessment and rate will yield a same tax burden as last year, though. In order for that to happen the millage rate would have to go down 24%. No way tax-happy Gwinnett is going to let that happen.

  4. djj | May 07, 2006 05:57pm | #7

    Here in Iowa, houses are reassessed every two years. This was the first "full" assessment as the house was just completed last fall and is almost 50 thousand higher than the appraised value. The tax bill will be almost 7 grand a year.

    I just got done protesting my assessment.  I won't know the results until June. I am sure my protest will be denied even with a current appraisal that is far less than the assessment. The other thing that stinks is that you have to tell the board what you think the house should be assessed at. Even if they agree that your house is assessed too high, if they think your proposed value is too low, your protest fails and the original assessment stands. Better luck next year.

    I should have had a lawyer do it for me but figured the cost would negate any savings from the lower rate. Buddy of mine recently built a new house that cost a million to put up and clearly looks like it. He got his lawyer to fight his assessment and got it lowered down to $550k.

  5. philarenewal | May 07, 2006 06:00pm | #8

    Hey Nuke, in Philly we get reassessed every year.

    Tax rate hasn't gone up in a long time.

    Tax bill goes up minimum of 10% every year.  Some years it doubles.  As an example of how bizarre it can get, last year they searched the property database for every condo and rental and just upped the valuation by 10% -- no appraisal, just time to up the bill again by 10%.  The Board of Revision of taxes actually published that this was how they decided to do it last year.  If it was more than 10%, I would have fought it in court as spot reassessment but with the way taxes are headed, I was almost thankful it was only 10% on my rentals.

    Next year is supposed to be another double it year -- they are switching the appraisal system to a "full value" system and everyone is bracing for another disaster.

    It's tough to fight a county appraisal if it's accurate.  The battle ground should really be against funding schools and other county services through property taxes.  The guys talking about the flight from the taxes and so forth, within the same state no less, are a demonstration why.  If everyone would keep the pressure on their state legislators, there is some hope for change.

     

    "Let's get crack-a-lackin"  --- Adam Carolla

  6. User avater
    CloudHidden | May 07, 2006 06:05pm | #9

    http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=72719.1

  7. rez | May 07, 2006 06:30pm | #11

    Few years back the county did it's first reassessment in decades by a per house viewing, stopping and measuring each home, not just a driveby.

    Didn't even mail a letter saying they were coming or post a note on the door before or after. Just showed up one day and walked around the yard with a tape measure.

    Glad I was out of town at the time. Neighbor relayed the info to me.

    Now I can't change the exterior dimensions as there is a recent written record replacing the last being something out of the 50s.

    Throw a little sugar on the outside of the house and your rates will increase even more.

    Now I know why some folks let the outside of their house look like heell and put all the goodstuff inside where it can't be seen.

    One place I lived once down south tried to implement a tax on household furnishings. No shid. So much for living room furniture, # of mattresses etc.

    Obviously taxpayers revolt won and the idea was ditched but you get the point of it really is an us and them game.

    I'm thinking tax assessment boards are too often like corrupt building inspectors and small town politicians.

    They ought to be tied naked to trees down by the creekbank and left for the bugs for a week or so. Let them think thru if it's worth the risk of this happening again.

    WHAT I'M SAYING IS KICK THEIR DIRTY DUMBAZZES!

     

     

    be an alternate view on the matter

     

    half of good living is staying out of bad situations

    1. User avater
      CloudHidden | May 07, 2006 06:38pm | #12

      >One place I lived once down south tried to implement a tax on household furnishings.Our county rates each house as an A, B, C according to the estimated quality of the house and interior. Assessments vary accordingly. I think it was a reaction to people bitching that they shouldn't be assessed as much as Mr. X's place be/c even though their size was the same, the houses were of obvious different quality.

    2. philarenewal | May 07, 2006 06:42pm | #13

      >>"I'm thinking tax assessment boards are too often like corrupt building inspectors and small town politicians.  They ought to be tied naked to trees down by the creekbank and left for the bugs for a week or so. Let them think thru if it's worth the risk of this happening again.

      Yeah man!

      Our guy here is David Glancy.  His latest idiot quote is that the board is changing the system to make it "more fair" and the new system will be "revenue neutral." 

      He explains what will happen in this "more fair," "revenue neutral" system as follows:  "some taxpayers will have small decreases and many will have severe increases."  I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried. 

      "Let's get crack-a-lackin"  --- Adam Carolla

    3. User avater
      Nuke | May 07, 2006 06:42pm | #14

      I'm betting my county has more tax assessors in the field than building inspectors. But that's just me spreading doom and gloom again. :)

      1. rez | May 07, 2006 06:49pm | #16

        Sometimes it pays to be jaded and paranoid...

        because there really is a demon hiding behind every tree.

        half of good living is staying out of bad situations

    4. User avater
      BillHartmann | May 07, 2006 06:49pm | #15

      Personal household property tax assesment was common years ago in many states.I doubt that any still do it.However, some still tax business personal property. Not sure what all or in what cases, but I think that KS. I see news stores from time to time, but since I am across the state line I don't pass over them.

  8. woodway | May 07, 2006 09:17pm | #19

    Just be glad you don't live anywhere in urban parts of California. We've got politicians dedicated to the transfer of wealth policy, your wealth to their project they promised to those who have less than you do (voluntary homeless types, addicts and the like). Property taxes in bay area are readjusted every year and, as you might imagine, they don't ever readjust in the downward direction. You can count on it being about 1.25% of the assessed value. In 25 years it has never once been the same two years in a row.
    You think you have it made cause you bought your home two decades ago and you want to do a remodel? They have that covered too. Before the permit is issued, they attach a value to it and it gets sent to the county and guess what...they re-assess your home before you've had a chance to drive a nail and they send the bill within a month of the date stamp on the permit. The reassessment is made at the time the permit is issued even if you've not even started on your remodel. You owe more just because you filed for the permit.

    Gas is $3 plus a gallon, bridge tolls are going to be $4 soon and I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!

    1. Piffin | May 09, 2006 04:58am | #38

      so whar're ya gonna do? Drink a gallon of gas and take a trip around the world? 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  9. WayneL5 | May 07, 2006 09:19pm | #20

    A steep increase can be unsettling, but $3450 is not bad for a house.  Of course it depends on lots of factors, but in rural New York I pay over $7000 for a 2500 square foot 6 year old rather blah vinyl tract home.

    1. brownbagg | May 07, 2006 10:27pm | #21

      local governments are very liberal, they have to be. The get elected by promise new playgrounds and new fire station. Then they annex the nearby county so they can get Walmart sales tax. All this take money. to help all the promise. So they tell you how poor the teacher are and that they need money. so they raise the millage and the property value and the tax doubles. But the teachers still dont get a raise and the students are still stupid. look at Atlanta. Highest per student money spent, but one of the lowest in education.So the taxes goes up, you cant stop tell, you have no say. Its the democratic method, the wolfs asking the sheep whats for dinner.So now we have white flight it gets so nobody can pay the property tax. town goes into bankrupt and they dont know why. Students are still stupid. You could give 100% of your wages to the city and still it would not be enough to keep them happy. Its all about money and money is power. It start at the local level and goes complete to the top at the federal level.Look at Bush. has yet to veto one bill, not one spending bill and they are still mad at him. Its all about power. and money is power.I have friends that will buy in poor section of town, The inside be worth ten times more than outside to advoid taxes.

      1. User avater
        Nuke | May 08, 2006 12:43am | #23

        Um, I would love it if they spent 77% of the county tax revenue on things like playgrounds and fire stations, but unfortunately its the school system. I say special tax parents to offset increases in educational costs. :)

        Makes no difference. I'm fighting and then leaving. f-them.

        1. philarenewal | May 08, 2006 01:07am | #24

          >>"Makes no difference. I'm fighting and then leaving. f-them.

          That's the biggest problem in the unfairness of property tax.  Land can't run away.  So you sell to somebody able and willing to pay the annual increases and what do your local officials care -- they are actually happy to see you go.

          I am trying to get folks locally a little more whipped up about what's going on with property taxes because the politicians have almost zero motivation to really do anything about it.  If you can't get rid of the politicians before you get taxed out, you are gone and can't vote against them anymore, so they don't care about you.

          Income taxes are different, and in my view better.  If the local income taxes are oppressive, people who make money start to migrate away along with their tax payments and if the politicians can't get it together, they are the ones who suffer by not being able to provide the necessary service to the people who stay or the patronage jobs to their friends and supporters.  So they just about have to be more motivated to actually do right by everyone and make some of the hard choices, sooner or later.

          For urban areas, there's an economist I've read recently that espouses the idea that an oversupply of very low cost housing renders a city unsalvagable because the people with money will never return due to the oppressive tax burden.  Detroit was one example (no offense to Detroit).  Philly is in the crosshairs too and it makes me nervous.  The taxes have to get to something more reasonable. 

          "Let's get crack-a-lackin"  --- Adam Carolla

        2. WNYguy | May 08, 2006 03:19pm | #26

          In New York State, outside of cities, we have two property tax bills: Town/County and School District.  Double-digit increases annually for each are not uncommon.   Property assessment, in my experience, are usually pretty accurate, but that doesn't matter, as the tax RATE per $thousand assessed value continues to rise.

          The State passes a large share of its obscene welfare/medical burden to the counties, and those costs are skyrocketing.  Teachers with 15 or 20 years' experience make $90K in salary (for 8 months' work) plus top-of-the line health and retirement benefits.  

          With depressed property values in the rural areas, many of us pay more per month in property tax than we do for our mortgage.  Population is DECREASING (productive, working people are moving out of state), leaving fewer working people to support the welfare state.

          Allen

           

    2. User avater
      Nuke | May 08, 2006 12:41am | #22

      Wayne, it is not the necessarily the dollar figure. In NYC I would expect to be making 2-3 times what my current household income if I were living according to the lifestyle right now. I noted this from the begining, and also noted many would not find the dollar increase a problem consider their cost of living index would be much higher than mine.

      Still, I am constantly made fun of by cowoerkers for 'living in South Carolina" because I live so far out. Yet, that doesn't return me back to the 'cheap south' notion that triggered my move back in 1989 when I left Providence, R.I. and its much higher cost of living. But using the percentage of increase is what I am hoping others can consider. I mean, how hard would you swallow a 24% increase in your taxes?

      1. arrowpov | May 08, 2006 05:45pm | #30

        Last year we had a revaluation. Values increased from 30 to 300%. I don't think living in upstate New York our combined salary is proportional to what we pay for property taxes compared to southern states. Our tax bill is about 12% of our gross incomes. I would be real happy with your bill. At least our daughter can read.

  10. User avater
    trout | May 08, 2006 01:22am | #25

    The north end of Boise has seen many blocks double in value over the last 5 years with commensurate increases in property taxes.

  11. User avater
    hammer1 | May 08, 2006 03:53pm | #27

    They bump the taxes around here every time the politicians spend more money than they have, which is every day. We have a state income tax, too. Excise taxes on every motorized vehicle. "If you take a walk, they tax your feet". It's only going to get worse.

    Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

  12. JohnT8 | May 08, 2006 06:56pm | #34

    My BIL has been battling the assessor's office for months.  In theory, the assessments are supposed to go up a bit every year, but in reality, many of them aren't going up until the houses sell.

    So BIL's 2600sqft house which has changed hands 3 or 4 times in the last 10 years has a tax bill around $3800 whereas comparable houses that haven't sold are paying $1200-ish.   There are a few 4k+ sqft homes on MUCH larger lots who pay less in taxes.

     

    jt8

    "The difference between greatness and mediocrity is often how an individual views a mistake..."-- Nelson Boswell

  13. davem | May 08, 2006 07:48pm | #36

    as i understand it from my brother who lived in dacula, they assess at the highest and best use.  so when someone sells a 1/10 acre lot for $50,000, the neighboring horse farm is assessed as if their land were worth $500,000 per acre.  which forces them to sell off a parcel to a develper to pay taxes.  then the developer sells the subdivided lots, and voila!!!, the cycle goes again. 

  14. User avater
    RRooster | May 09, 2006 04:27am | #37

    Forgive me for not reading ahead.............we get "screwed over" every four years.  It never goes down.

     

     

    Grunge on.  http://grungefm.com

     

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