*
I do not know how it is in other parts of the country, but here on the beach cities of So. Cal., it is very hard to find young basicly educated, common sense employees. The ones that come on with those skills only seem to stay on for a year or so and then move on to something less laborous. I am a wood floor contractor. I can’t delegate, so I stay very hands on. Getting larger is out of the question if I want quality control. I asked one of my guys how many sixteenths were in an inch, (he was having trouble measuring with a tape), he thought for a minute and could not answer the question. But he shows up every day, on time, in clean clothes and does whatever I request him to do with very little compliant. I’m dealing with alot of surfer dude, skateboarder mentalities. That seems to be the types that want to get in construction here. How is it in your part of the country, where are you from, and what trade do you perform? GW
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*
Greg,
This is the paradox of construction, and for that matter, teaching: Finding qualified responsible young people to work for you is difficult especially if you are paying them 15 bucks an hour when they could earn 40 as a programmer. I started out in construction after completing three degrees from Berkeley and the London School of Economics. I started for $12.00 bucks an hour as an apprentice with no building skills whatsoever. I now run my own building business. I did it because I wanted something other than a office job. The contractor found me by offering me an apprenticeship, was patient with me, answered all my questions and listened to my input on things. I.e. respect. Try thinking outside the box and taking on some high school or junior college students. Go to the woodshop class and ask the teacher who the best students are and then recruit them by offering to teach them new skills. Most bright people like learning(that's why they are birght) so if you can market yourself as a teacher as well as a builder you'll attract smart people. Hope this helps.
T
*The better the economy the harder to find decent help, or any for that matter. Times have changed with the "pussyifying" of our youth. I'd say in Ohio 20% of the kids you hire will actually turn out and make you money. That's why you hire people, to make YOU money. A good employee should be treated very well, they're few and far between.
*jim,I am just up the road from you in Akron,and I am howling with laughter.I gotta agree with you about the "pussyifying" of our youth.This past May,I was already working with the 2nd helper of the year.This kid was not that bright and I had to explain to him that he couldn't wait untill 8:00 on a saturday night and try to cash his paycheck without a drivers license for ID.Despite the limited intellect I was thinking I had struck gold with him cause he worked pretty well for a few weeks. He was 20 years old ,had a couple of years experience and showed some initiative. Right up till the day he had to carry bundles of 40year shingles up a ladder onto a 2nd story roof.He wanted to carry them up 1/2 a bundle at a time.He waited till I was up on the roof myself,pulled his tools out of the truck,and disapeared.I carried the shingles myself,and finished the roof myself(and how many times have I done that?)Kid calls up a few days later begging for his job back----knows he made a mistake.I told him I would have died of embarrasment at age 20 If I let an old man like me(38) hump more shingles up a ladder."pussyfying" of our youth sums it up pretty well.
*I really don't think it's just a construction thing; my wife works in the computer industry, and when they hire in new people, they actually have a class for the young people that covers things like coming to work on time, how to dress, TAKING showers, and so on. Even though just writing this makes me feel old, I think that most young people don't remember what it was like during the early 80's when even MacDonalds had stacks of resumes for flipping burgers. Being a combat vet, I take interest in the new's stories of what happens in the military; I hear now that in Army basic training, new inductees are issued a little yellow card. If things get too intense, they can wave this card in the air and get a "time out". Please tell me this is a rumor. My grandfathers (both of them from WW1), and father (from both WWII and Korea), would simply roll if they knew this was happending. What happened?
*Jason, I remember when I was in basic training back in 1970, we had to run with full pack and weapon about seven miles to the drive range at Fort Ord, CA.( Usually in the rain and cold of Winter) There was a over-weight guy named Boven,( ya just don't forget their names), and the whole batallion would have to circle around from time to time with every run, to pick this laggard up. He never got beat up though.
*Gentlemen,It's the democrats. Think about it.The Machine
*The Democrats.......what did I do?Good help is very hard to find. I'm a trim and cabinet sub in Texas. I'm having the same problem as everybody else. When I started out, you walked up on the job and ask the boss if he could use another good carpenter. Today, nobody even walks up on the job any more. Unless they're casing out the place to steal your tools later.Good luck,Ed. Williams
*When I started working in this industry about 6 years ago, I hated it. But the problem wasn't the work, it was the dinks I was working for. Busting my ass for 7 bucks an hour and being treated like sh*t. Not by 1 but 4 different contractors. I showed up on time and NEVER called in sick. The last place I worked for 2 and a half years before I gave up and went out on my own. Now I go to the NAHB meetings and listen to these same a**holes whine that they can't find good help. The same guy who told me that I should buck up and be a fu**in' man because I asked to go home after finding out my grandfather had died was now dumbfounded that he just can't seem to keep good employees. I now only have 2 employees but I treat them very well(including 2 days paid funeral leave). It took me a long time to find these 2 excellent workers. Now I intend to do what it takes to keep them.Whew! Glad I got that off my chest.
*Mr. Williams,No offense intended. Those who'd be entering the land of construction jobs have grown up with Bill Clinton as the Commander in Chief. The guy has masterfully demonstrated the virtues of higher education and deceit. Pay the price, gain some intellect, BS your way through the rest, and you too can find yourself in a comfy chair being lathered by some bimbo. I give all the guys who don't come lookin' for work a lot of credit. There's a lot of easier ways to earn a living these days and they know it. The phone company pays $15.00/hr.+ benes to anyone who can get through day after day of answering customer service calls. I can't pay that until my guys have the ability, speed, to produce $28.00/hr.!Only idiots and misfits WANT to work in the dirt and dust anymore. One thing though...our friends south of the border have more than made up for the sad lack of english speaking help. Where's that spanish book when I need it?Quite frustrated,The Machine
*Daniel,I can understand what you're saying and I've quit lots of jobs when the boss gave me more than I thought was fair, but today it seems (to me) the whole country is suffering from P.M.S. (pissing and moaning syndrome) I have found in my life that many of the assholes you're talking about are pretty straight shooters once you prove yourself to them. Being a man is an interesting subject in todays world where you can't always tell the girls from the boys. Once warriors and now house moms, it's all very confusing to us old people who were taught that "unless you broke your back, get your ass up and get to work."For instance: I had a young guy fall through the trusses and land on a stack of plywood, slid down the stack and scraped his back. He was shaken up, but his eyes were clear and I told him to lie down for a minute until he caught his breath. The next thing I knew, an ambulance arrived and paramedics hauled the guy to the hospital, the whole framing crew takes off cause they're shook up and I'm standing there scratching my head.He was ok and they released him soon after he got to the hospital. I caught hell from the GC because the guy could of sued him if he hadn't called the paramedics. I don't know, I guess I'm a dinausour, but I liked it better in the old days. Not macho, not pussy, just men.Maybe I need some sensitivity training.
*I hear now that in Army basic training, new inductees are issued a little yellow card. If things get too intense, they can wave this card in the air and get a "time out". Please tell me this is a rumor. Thats really scarry. I wonder if Iraq, or China, or Russia, or North Korea, or the hundreds of other terrorist inclined have little yellow cards for their guys...or do we think just because we're Americans and have a few smart bombs, we can take a rag/tag army to war against these guys. I think the gulf war gave us the feeling we are invincible. What if the next time it's in the jungle where bombs don't work too good, and the enemies too close, and he's got a bayonet about three inch's from your throat...that's ok cause if you were smart you kept your little yellow card.
*Sorry, I was a little off on my "rumor". Here's the highlights of modern military training:"The Impact of Slackened Basic Training Standards on the Armed Forces: Specifically, integrated basic training has lowered standards, engendered resentment, and undermined morale. At the Great Lakes Naval Training Center, forexample:Recruits are shown a video telling them that "physically, anybody can make it through boot camp." The "anybody-can-make-it" mentality is harmful because it devalues the prestige associated with completing basic training. Recruits no longer drill with rifles. Until 1996, the Navy believed having recruits drill with weapons was an excellent way to instill discipline. Having executed an about-face, the Navy now claims that drilling with rifles is anachronistic. Recruits are issued a "blue card" to deal with stress. Recruits are encouraged to hand their card to a trainer if they feel discouraged. The Navy is not alone in allowing standards to slacken. The Army, too, has developed a kinder, gentler boot camp: Recruits no longer run wearing combat boots. Studies have shown that female recruits suffer stress fractures more readily than male recruits. The Army's response has been to substitute jogging apparel for combat boots. Drill instructors are warned to avoid verbally stressing their recruits. With this prohibition, drill instructors have been stripped of a time-tested technique for instilling discipline and inculcating mental toughness in their recruits. Basic combat skills are receiving less emphasis. According to a 1997 report by the Army Inspector General, "There is no clearly articulated or enforced standard for soldierization skills to graduate from Initial Entry Training [IET]."
*I'd say y'all are ripe for the picking. We'll be there directly (saddle up, Canadians! Let's go take Washington...again...)
*So Dinosaurs whine as well as the young help does!And it's Clinton's fault to boot!Whatever floats your boat boys...near the stream,ajYou all need the return of slavery to be happy...yaa...the good old days...
*Stephen....You have a good business and you make enough profit to buy backsaving tools...such as a shingle lift...They were invented like fifty years ago...IF you were commercial and made your guys carry shiingles instead of supplying a material handler...ya would have no one showing up to work either!Just add this little tool and you might just save your own back for old age...I know it's a pain in the butt to haul around and set up...near the stream,ajThe one thing I hear time and time again from the young new guys is..there is a tool that does that boss...get with it cause I am now looking for a job with a contractor who is "with it."Slavery was abolished a few years ago...
*Jim,I agree with you that most of these assholes are straight shooters. Some of them very nice and down to earth guys when the work day is done, but who wants to put up with that crap when they can go and work at Home Depot for $12.00 an hour? I tried to prove myself for over 2 years to the last guy. Maybe I wasn't as good of an employee as I thought. I guess we all agree that the quality of the labor pool today is pretty pathetic. Sad fact is, nobody wants to get their hands dirty anymore. (Or show up on time)
*My first employee, with me now 4 1/2 yrs, just can't seem to work more than 6 hours a day. He says to me a month ago that I should give him an incentive to show up on time and work 40 hours. The reasons why I have put up with the short days, although I think it's time to let him go, are:1) he is honest2) he can work alone, and the job generally gets done correct the first time3) my customers seem to like him4) he knows how I like things done, what my quality standards are.I am thinking of a career change, I just can't seem to handle "it" anymore.Barry
*.....b novick... relax...4 out of 5 is great...as long as his attitude doesn't infect the rest of the company... keep him and use him..make it clear.. that you appreciate the 4... and he could have raises and more reponsiblity if he could add number 5...basically , it looks like you got an unpolished gem... learn stone cutting and polish him up....on the other hand.... if you find yourself dreading to go to work because of this individual... and you can't adjust YOUR attitude.. then it may be time for him to go...
*I'm with AJ. Let's bring back slavery. I think everyone should own a Canadian or two.Novick,Sounds like this guy's got you right where he wants you.Ed. Williams
*I feel very fortunate to have a great set of employees, who work hard, have high standards, are personally compatible and who show up on time. Well most of them. We have one long time employee (15 yrs.) who puts in an average of 30 hrs a week. He has had this erratic work pattern for most of his time. We tried the incentive plan, giving him a $2 per hour raise if he worked a forty hour week. He did for two weeks and then went back to his old ways. He usually has some plausible excuse and recently has been having some pretty serious health problems but we all know about excuses and a**holes. Why don't we fire the guy? The partners in our company have discussed this many times and have come to the conclusion that for all his faults, we like working with him and so does everyone else. He is a dispenser of humor and favors and as such is an intangible asset of the company much as our reputation is. Does he represent a failed younger generation? I view him as a throwback to a time when things were slower and our work was seen as more than an economic value. He doesn't affect the hours put in by the other employees who don't understand how he can get by without putting in a full week but there is not a single one of them who doesn't envy his attitude and priorities.
*Yeah Jack'I guess your right, PMS touches us all these days. I remember how fast I used to run from work in the sixties when I was young. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll, ahhh those were the days.Anyway, if the guys today were all really out there hustling I'd be hard pressed to keep up. Busy as I want to be, doing all my own work and enjoying it.
*Dan'I give you credit for trying for 2 years, six weeks would have been my max. A decent guy might expect you to pay your dues and prove yourself before opening up to you, but hey, there are definitely a lot of pr---- in the trades. Good luck.
*AJ,I think the slavery crack,if it was directed at me,was a bit unfair. I will accept the responsibility because I did not provide enough info for us to be on the same page.1)the employee in question was 20 years old and a highschool drop-out2)employee did not own a car,and his drivers license was suspended, so each and every morning I picked him up to take to and from work.HE was on the clock from the minute I picked him up from his fathers front porch.3) employee did not own sufficient tools---he had a tool belt,and a tape measure,utility knife,and a screw driver. I loaned him the rest the rest of the tools and after the first week personally drove him to the store(on the clock)and paid for the rest of the tools he needed---hatchet,chalkline ,flatbar etc.4)employee was covered by workers comp,paid on the books.pay was about $10/hour.On hiring,I explained that his hourly pay was based on his production and that I expected to be paying him about$14/hour by the end of the year.employee was paid for a full day despite the fact that we generally only worked about 6 hours a day5)despite the employees lack of education,and minimal experience I explained exactly how he could advance and ultimately how much he could expect to make.6) the hoist you mention costs about $2000.I would not hesitate to buy it if it would be used.(note that I don't skimp in the least on my purchases of trucks,air compressors,coil nailers,framing nailers,fiberglass ladders etc.)But since I make full use of my suppliers boom trucks,owning my own hoist would be redundant and seldom used.Boom truck had no access on this job,so up by hand was the way to go.7) employee was hired because he said he had worked 2 summers in Tennesee as a roofing laborer.I figure if he can hump shingles in August in Tennesee,May in Ohio out to be a picnic.8)Remember,I wasn't telling a 50 year old electrician to hump shingles. I was asking a 20 year old roofing laborer to hump shingles----after all that is his job.Humping 4 bundles an hour is hardly slave labor for a 20 year old roofing laborer.The other 55 minutes an hour would have been spent smoking,eating lunch,and looking over my sholder as I trained him to layout the roof,lay valleys,flash chimneys and in general learn the trade.9) what frosted me AJ was not that the employee quit,It was that he waited till I was out of sight on the roof,collected the tools I bought him(and which he now owned)and disappeared without a word. I could have respected his decision if he told me face to face he was quitting.It was the vanishing act of his that I found a little"pansy"You may still think I run a slave shop AJ,and that is your privelege.I think my problem is that I am too soft.I don't ask employees to do anything I am not willing to do right along side of them.I give them the same opportunity I actively searched for and could not find when I was 20,and I treat them the way I wanted to be treated.It is a sad day If the world has come to the point where it is considered unreasonable to expect roofing laborers to occasionally carry shingles up a ladder!Good Luck All,Stephen
*Stephen....This is the business folder and so here's some ideas on your last post...my perspective anyway...1 drop out...well...not the best...farmers kids are the best...and athletes..2 I would not hire such a loser...You can't polish a prickle pair and find an apple 90% of the time.3 You overdid it...He uses his tools or yours till he buys them with money he earns...He has to want tools, not you want him to want them...4 Good pay...but for the wrong guy...And let them work up in pay at set times...You need Mike Smith to help you with this. Discipline and a plan...5 Good to do...but one thing at a time...let him have some needs for it too...6 Todays workers will not respect you if you think humping even one shingle is cool when there is machine that could do it. They will always think of you as a cheap bastard who values his money more than their slave back. That is the reality of today when working anywhere else is more social and less painful. One exception...I ask my guys when I hire them if they would have a chance at out bulling me on the job. Well it turns into a game to try to kill each other with how much bulling we can do how quickly!...I love it!7 OK...8 Your lunches are too long...Kids want to work straight thru and others need a 1/2 hour max...Long lunches lead to lost interest in working the afternoon and daydreaming about being anyplace but at your jobsite...Long lunches are not good for discipline. Youngsters need to have rules and consistency.9 You were controlling him. He had to sneak out or you would have talked him into staying when it was killing him mentally. You thought you knew what was up, yet you knew not.My summary... You are soft but controlling...You need to work on a lot of things. And I would say be willing to hire and let go enough men to find one that fits your controlling style or that you just fit better with. The lift is a pain to move and set up but the world does not think wearing out our bodies at age forty is cool anymore.Just a few thoughts...I hope it helps in some way....One thing I found of late...ways to let the boys make the job fun...And laborers seem to have way more fun when I hire three of them. Three men lets me play one to lead the others...And makes for enough conversation to make the day enjoyable.near the stream,ajI have roofed many a home Stephen...and will race ya anytime with two bundles on each shoulder.
*You have made some good points AJ,some even excellent. Some however are unworkable given the realities of the situation1)&2) this is the reality of the situation in this area---that is high school graduates are not standing in line to take entry level jobs in the trades.Realisticly,if a 20 year old had his act together,was a H.S. grad,and responsible enough to own,maintain and insure a car he would be in college,not humping shingles.Interesting to note that when I run a help wanted ad I get approx. 80 applicants.Scary to say that the guys I describe here are the BEST of the available labor pool. You would shudder at what I turn down.Also,farmers sons are few and far between in a city of 200,000 plus. The may be more available in your neck of the woods.3)You make a good point here. I am treating employee like I would want to be treated and better than I ever was.I Actually offer workers a tool purchase plan to help them buy bigger ticket items. Never had one take me up on it.4),5) Employee had actually already recieved a bump. Remember I originally mentioned he showed some initiative?Employee has pretty clear cut pay raises ahead that are tied to learning new skills,NOT simply putting in time on the job.This is a good area to consider though.6)The machine you keep mentioning may be in common use in your area,but not here.Not that it is unknown,but it is not in standard use.I certainly don't think humping shingles is "cool". I think it is work which employees are paid to do,and which I frequently do alongside them.The ability to do so is the basic physical requirement for the job.8)I personally don't eat lunch on the job.In general my goal is to arrive on location at 8:00 and be leaving by or before 2:00.I usually accomplish this by not eating,not smoking,no breaks for myself,constant steady production movement---but not running.Employees are free to pack a lunch and eat it on the clock,smoke any time,and take breaks as they need.I don't stand under a shade tree screaming"work faster"---I lead from the front---that is from the rooftop,in the sun doing the exact same work they do.I don't make any more money by streching the job out from 2 days to 3days and the employee was well aware that he would be paid the same $10/hourX 8 hours even if we are done in 6 or 7 hours.We all have the incentive to get the days work done efficiently and leave for the day.9)you probably have a point her aj,but I am not sure what it is.You indicated earlier that youngsters need to have rules,consistency,and discipline but that I am to controlling. You can't have it both waysI readily accept you assesment that I am to soft,but I think you are offbase on the controlling .You keep mentioning the hoist,but as I mentioned earlier I generally make use of my suppliers roof top delivery boom trucks.Even with rtd the laborer needs to be able to move bundles around on the roof and like it or not this is a physical job.You are correct about the laborers liking to work in groups.This lets them blow of steam by griping behind your back (the boss is a real slave driver---he only pays us for 8 hours even though we leave after 6 hours)I have found for me, a 3 man crew works best---ME,one other roofer,and a laborer.This lets the other roofer and the laborer bitch about what an ass the boss is(me) and lets the roofer crack the whip if the laborer slacks off and holds up production. the roofer is paid $125 to $150 per day and has no incentive to waste time since he wants to be gone by 2:00 if not soonerRE: carrying 2 bundles at a time.I won a bet from an employee 12 years ago doing this and they were only 20 year shingles.Haven't raced doing it since.I wouldn't do it currrently and certainly don't want employees doing it. My workers comp rates and liability insurance rates are high enough ,thank you.My son runs cross country and the team he trains with have some shirts that say"to run with me you have to be fast,to beat me you have to be kidding"Occasionally I will waddle along with my son on a short run and he says he is gonna get a shirt for me that says" to run with me you have to be slow,to beat me you just have to be breathing"good Luck all,Stephen
*8am to 2pm? Man, I want to work for you. And yes, both my WIFE and I can carry two bundles of shingles at a time! We'll be there!
*Thanks for the laugh Jason...Oh...you're serious!...That's OK too!near the stream,ajStephen...Things are changing rapidly...Like in months...new kids do not want to kill themselves for any pay..but they do like races, and they are very very social...Things to know...when you are leading your pack...And tools don't mean diddly to guys until they tell you they want to stay with you and do for months, that lead to years and they finally years later look back(long after it could benefit you!!!)...Actions speak louder than words...And yes, you are manipulative...the tool thing is your thing...not the workers...Have new guys do one thing till they are faster than you are...then tell them you are amazed at their speed and safety all day long...When they come to work on time...tell them how amazed you are at how responcible they are...Set them up to amaze you all day long and then tell them till they tell you to shut up and get your job done faster so you both can quit early...Set them up to be the leader...the boss, the proud roof guy...but remember...never give them the next task to learn too soon...They need to succeed in their mind and in your words to them for all 8 hours that they are on the job!
*Hey Steve,When I was hireing employees, we always hired wrestlers from Manchester High, they were all good (mostly).Between you and me, I think you did the guy a big favor, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Controlling? Your job, your ass, you got a right to be controlling. P.S. When I need a roofer, I'll give you a call, the last one I did myself, but I'm getting to old to haul shingles up a roof (I pay the same day you finish)
*Jason,good to hear from you.I CAN carry 2 bundles at at a time,but I WON'T.I also don't want any employees carrying 2 at a time.I do expect all workers on the job,myself included to be willing and able to carry one at a time on the occasions it is called for.You make a good point about your wife.Each year I will have 2 or 3 women ask " would you consider hiring a woman?".My response is "Sure,I will consider it----Can you carry a 80# bundle of shingles or a 90# roll of roll roofing up a 2 story laddder?"they usually laugh and say "no,i don't think so----but I could clean up trash on the ground"I explain that I sub out the ground cleanup to a crew at $7-8 /square and that ends the discussion.AJ,I am enjoying this discussion---I can tell we both have a lot of time to kill right now-----.Again you are making some good points and also some points that just don't apply to the situation1) tools. Tools are not my thing---they are merely a means to an end .I know a lot of guys on this board are tool junkies but I am not one of them.If I calculate that a tool will be PROFITABLE I don't hesitate to acquire it,but I don't use an in-frequently performed task as an excuse to by a new toy the way many tradesmen do(you know many guys view tools as both part of their trade and a hobby and a love affair).I prefer to gain the benefits of using the tool without the expense and hassle of ownership. An example---dump trucks.It is not cost effective for me to actually own a dump truck since I can gain its use by subbing out yard cleanup a $7-8/square.That includes the dump fee,the use of the truck,and 2 laborers to load it.It frees me from payroll considerations,maintenance ,insurance,and truck payments.It also means I don't have to store or park it.I keep a close eye on the costs involved and every year I creep closer to the point where owning a dump truck will be profitable. when that day comes,I won't hesitate to buy.2) manipulative. As a matter of semantics that is an excellent choice of a word.I am indeed manipulative,as are you,as are employees.My task,and yours as small businessmen is to manipulate the terms of the contract,the material,money,labor,building departments,suppliers schedules---virtually everything involved in the job to complete the project as specified,on time,and most importantly to our financial gain. Employees do the same thing to a slightly lesser degree and homeowners of course do essentially the same thing.You say I am controlling,or manipulative and then you make suggestions of how I can make the workplace more fun. You suggest I manipulate the employees behavior by appealing to their youthfull competitive natures through means of races etc.I feel this is acyually more manipulative than anything I would actually contemplate and in fact is something I would definitely discourage.Roofing is hazardous enough,without turning any aspect of it into a race.Any speed contests are pretty much gauranteed to have drastic impact on quality issues such as straitness of courses,short nailing,high nailing,proper flashing,flatness of felt,secure nailing of new decking etc.Any and all of these will have a much greater effect on my bottom line(detrimental) than any negligable gain by increased speed.I sell at a pretty high price and speed contests would be counter productive to that technique.You have reminded me of one valuable thing though.Back in the early to mid '80's I was a journeyman electro plater---a trade I hated.I hated that the foreman played elevator music all freakin day,I hated the constant exposure to chromic acid,muriatic acid,caustic soda,sulfuric acid,and lead oxide,but the number one thing I hated was the boredom of standing around waiting for a task to do.This boredom from inactivity is something I have in-advertantly imposed upon the entry level workers.When I have an experienced roofer on the job he is rarely bored because he posseses the skills to be assigned ALMOST any task on the job----there is always something for him to do.The entry level worker---since he is essentially skilless is limited to the tasks he can be assigned. He will usually be busy at the beginning and end of the day but has a lot of idle time mid day when there is no work which he is qualified to do.thats gotta be boring.the one thing the laborers seem to like is installing felt. they get to use a hatchet,pound a lot of cap nails,and feel like they are producing something towards the finished product.I do a lot of work single handed. I do more work with one laborer.Sometimes I am lucky and busy enough to have one experienced installer,and one laborer working alongside of me----but that really puts a gun to my head to sell enough jobs to keep everyone busy.I already have a seemingly endless string of nasty,steep tear-offs on the schedule for spring(opening day of the work season tenatively march 26 to april 2)I think I will try something a little different this spring.2 experienced installers and no laborers.Installers will recieve a $1/bundle bonus above their regular pay for shingles or rolls carried up ladder.I have tried this bonus before from time to time and it works well with the right kind of guys.insanity= repeating the same action over and over but expecting different results.Good Luck All,stephen
*Jim,I will be happy to look at anything you have,but I am generally priced to high for new construction. Old work and tear-offs are great,and additions are gravy jobs to me.I hear what you are saying about the manchester kids. I have even thought about Akron U students since I live only about 6 minutes away. I could probably get school aged laborers june, july and august but where do I go for april ,may,september october and november?By the way,the story about the employee I related,refered to one specific worker. It could have been applied to any of the 3 laborers I went through last year between late February and mid september.Laborers are hard to keep---roofers are a little easier. I lost the best roofer I ever had in early april cause of my own fault in scheduling.Next time I will pay the right guy to sit at home for a week if the scheduling snafu is my fault.Maybe I will see you around,Stephen
*Good post Stephen...Instead of the bonus....rent a hoist...Just see if my idea works....As to races....my guys loved them...They also new that safety and perfection were important as I never let up on those items...But once the race is started...look out...it's hard to turn them off...Like overpowered E bunnys...As to hiring skilled men...I think roofing does require a bit of skill and you may be much happier and more profitable...near the stream,ajMost jobs require very little unskilled help.
*Stephen, I've been using power ladders for quite a while.The company that makes them is Reimann/Georger inBuffalo, N.Y. (716)-895-1156 http://www.RGCproducts.com I also try to have the shingles boomed on the roof but sometimes it can't reach. The power ladder is very useful then. Its also great for everything else like loading up the guns, hoses, nails. paper, etc.I've made a box for the platform that takes boards and plywood for repairs and barrels,coolers and what have you. You may not want to buy one new but couldget a used one.
*thanks for the info,DanO.Actually there is a comparable product sold locally by one of my suppliers.It is not totally unknown here,just not as common as it could be.Stephen
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I do not know how it is in other parts of the country, but here on the beach cities of So. Cal., it is very hard to find young basicly educated, common sense employees. The ones that come on with those skills only seem to stay on for a year or so and then move on to something less laborous. I am a wood floor contractor. I can't delegate, so I stay very hands on. Getting larger is out of the question if I want quality control. I asked one of my guys how many sixteenths were in an inch, (he was having trouble measuring with a tape), he thought for a minute and could not answer the question. But he shows up every day, on time, in clean clothes and does whatever I request him to do with very little compliant. I'm dealing with alot of surfer dude, skateboarder mentalities. That seems to be the types that want to get in construction here. How is it in your part of the country, where are you from, and what trade do you perform? GW