Question about electrical loads
Hi everyone!
I’d be very grateful if someone could help me figure this out.
My electric meter was changed from an electromagnetic to a smart meter last month. To install it the tech switched off all my electricity at the main breaker. Everything is clearly labelled. The wheels instantly stopped turning. Then the tech asked me to step away a bit so he could install the new meter. He put on a welder’s mask and thick gloves and got to it. There was a big blue spark for a second but he didn’t say anything, installed the new meter and left when he was done.
Now my electric company called to tell me the blue blue spark meant there is something connected to my meter that isn’t switched off at my breaker and I should call an electrician to fix that. I should mention I live in a low-rise building with other units as my neighbors.
I thought the blue spark was because the tech was welding something. They say it wasn’t.
If my old meter’s wheel stopped turning when all the stuff I know about was switched off, doesn’t it mean that the meter isn’t recording any electrical use from whatever that thing is ?If so, how can I be paying for it’s use?Doesn’t the fact that the wheels on my meter stopped turning mean that this eletricity isn’t being paid by anyone at all?
I’m pretty confused by all this.
Bye for now.
Talia
Replies
If the meter stopped, you are not using any power. My guess, he slipped with the meter and shorted out something in the can.
You can prove it top yourself by turning of the main breaker, record the meter reading, wait an hour or so and look at the meter again.
It should be exactly the same.
I did it and the meter didn't record any new usage
gfretwell wrote:
If the meter stopped, you are not using any power. My guess, he slipped with the meter and shorted out something in the can.
You can prove it top yourself by turning of the main breaker, record the meter reading, wait an hour or so and look at the meter again.
It should be exactly the same.
Thanks, gfretwell!
I have done this a couple of times since they told me about this hidden load-flipping off all the switches at the main breaker and going back an hour later and my meter has never budged.
I think they assume there is a hidden load because of the spark the tech told them about and the fact that they looked into it and my next door neighbor apparently uses next to no electricity even though we all heat with electric baseboards but could it be they have the right idea about her system being connected to someone's power and putting a hidden load on that person's system but it's not mine ?
If all the neighbors take turns switching off our loads would that be a way to figure out who's system exactly this neighbor might be connected to?
To make a big spark, while simply plugging in the meter, would require a significant load -- enough to turn the meter. Something's odd about their story.
(It's also curious that he didn't suit up until installing the meter -- there was more chance of a sustained arc on removing the old one than installing the new one. You only get an arc on MAKING a connection when there is a substantial capacitive load (which doesn't exist except in industrial settings). The only reason for suiting up would be as protection against a slip and resulting accidental short.)
He was suited up while he worked
DanH wrote:
To make a big spark, while simply plugging in the meter, would require a significant load -- enough to turn the meter. Something's odd about their story.
(It's also curious that he didn't suit up until installing the meter -- there was more chance of a sustained arc on removing the old one than installing the new one. You only get an arc on MAKING a connection when there is a substantial capacitive load (which doesn't exist except in industrial settings). The only reason for suiting up would be as protection against a slip and resulting accidental short.)
Thanks DanH.
I also don't understand any of this.
Just to clear something up-the tech was suited up the whole time he was actually changing the meters-so, both when he was handling the old meter and the new one. When he asked me to step away so he could change the meter the old one was still on the wall-it was only the breaker switches that were off and the wheels that had stopped turning.
OK, it makes more sense that he was suited up the whole time.
The tech was suited up
DanH wrote:
To make a big spark, while simply plugging in the meter, would require a significant load -- enough to turn the meter. Something's odd about their story.
(It's also curious that he didn't suit up until installing the meter -- there was more chance of a sustained arc on removing the old one than installing the new one. You only get an arc on MAKING a connection when there is a substantial capacitive load (which doesn't exist except in industrial settings). The only reason for suiting up would be as protection against a slip and resulting accidental short.)
Thanks DanH,
I'm also confused, but the tech was suited up once he was actually working-both to remove the old meter and put in the new one.
Getting a spark
junkhound wrote:
Totally incorrect, aka LRA, short circuit, etc.
Obviously you can get a spark (a BIG one) if you accidentally create a short circuit. This would be the hazard that the meter guy's arc protection gear was for. But I was talking about making/breaking a standard circuit -- an arc on making is rare, even when the load is substantial.
junkhound wrote:
Per OP, I have seen sparks with 'no load' due to bad grounds, e.g. poor white wire connection. Had the meter OUT of the base at one house and got a spark when cutting a white wire.
The only way you'd get a spark with the meter out is if the pole transformer is poorly grounded and is thus grounding back through your house ground (which is not terribly uncommon). You'd only get the spark, though, if you cut a wire running from the service entrance neutral to a "real" ground.
White terminals
junkhound wrote:
Most meters do not have white wire terminals, maybe the new type meter at this poco does? , but would have needed new meter base also.
The standard meter config only "interrupts" two wire -- the two hots. Removing the meter does not disconnect the neutral -- no point, since the current through the neutral doesn't need to be metered.
I'm not sure if meters are ever grounded (or connected to the neutral). Might be necessary for newer electronic units.
There's no obvious way that a problem with the neutral could have caused the arc the OP described.
So the wires are always live?
DanH wrote:
junkhound wrote:
Most meters do not have white wire terminals, maybe the new type meter at this poco does? , but would have needed new meter base also.
The standard meter config only "interrupts" two wire -- the two hots. Removing the meter does not disconnect the neutral -- no point, since the current through the neutral doesn't need to be metered.
I'm not sure if meters are ever grounded (or connected to the neutral). Might be necessary for newer electronic units.
There's no obvious way that a problem with the neutral could have caused the arc the OP described.
So if I understand what you're saying correctly; there are two wires in place leading to the meter, they both always have power running through them (they're live?) even if you turn power off at the breaker so if you touch one of these live wires accidentally during a smart meter installation you will see an arc but it only means you touched this live wire and not that there is a hidden load at all?
So, what is the electric company going on about?
So, what is the electric company going on about?
I have no idea.
So this is what probably happened?
DanH wrote:
So, what is the electric company going on about?
I have no idea.
Thanks DanH. :D
I'll call them next week to tell them about this so I just want to make sure I understood your explanation correctly.
This, below, describes what most likely happened?
'' there are two wires in place leading to the meter, they both always have power running through them (they're live?) even if you turn power off at the breaker so if you touch one of these live wires accidentally during a smart meter installation you will see an arc but it only means you touched this live wire and not that there is a hidden load at all?''
Unfortunately, from your description (and you not being terribly familiar with electrical stuff) it's hard to say what the "flash" you saw may have been. It seems unlikely that a substantial flash would have occurred from simply connecting the new meter, even if there was a modest load on it (ie, some "hidden" connection), but it's also a little implausable that an experienced guy accidentally created a momentary short circuit -- I've done it under vaguely similar circumstances, but I'm a klutz..
So I don't know.