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Question about Treads Meeting Risers

Ryan1 | Posted in Construction Techniques on November 3, 2009 09:27am

So I’ve seen some stair guys (A.)put the bottom edge of the riser on the top of tread and I’ve seen others (B.)butt the edge of the tread to the face of the riser. What are some pros and cons of each method? Is one method superior to the other or is this just a preference thing?

With option (A.) it seems like you could put pocket holes in the back of the risers and screw down into the tread. But with option (B.) you could just put screws through the back of the riser into the edge of the tread.

Does option (A.) hide that joint better than option (B.)?

Thanks for any input.
Ryan

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  1. User avater
    hammer1 | Nov 03, 2009 10:29pm | #1

    I've always done risers first, screw through to the treads. This tightens that joint and keeps the riser straight. If a riser shrinks, there will be a visible gap the other way. I doubt you'll see risers on top of the treads on many stairs unless somebody doesn't buy wide enough risers and wants to cut a corner. These days, anything goes but risers first is the traditional (and the correct) way.

    Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

    1. Ryan1 | Nov 03, 2009 11:13pm | #2

      Thanks for the reply. But couldn't the tread be just as likely to shrink/swell with seasonal movement as the riser? Just curious.Seems like slipping the tread under the riser would allow the tread to move a bit without showing a gap?I read an article a while back in JLC where Jed Dixon was putting the risers on top of the treads. On an open stair he had to cut a notch for the tread in the mitered plumb cut of the open skirtboard.Now I'm going to have to spend a few hours in the Photo Gallery to see how Stan Foster does it.

  2. AitchKay | Nov 03, 2009 11:15pm | #3

    I'll ditto hammer1 here. That's what I do.

    **************************

    But there was a real tweaker who wrote an article in an early (way pre-FHB) FWW on building stairs --

    He used a full dado to house the top of each riser into the tread above, and glued them up in pairs.

    He cautioned against rabbetting the riser to make a skinnier tongue, and gluing that into a narrow groove, because he worried about a possible air gap at the top of that tongue, where the tread would be weak, and could crack. He wanted solid wood all the way.

    Then he'd jig up on the table saw so that the tread ran against the fence, nosing down, and the riser sat blocked up parallel to the table by the blade, with the blade-to-fence distance set at the exact finish rise. Then he'd dado out the riser to fully house the tread -- once again, no tongue.

    He did it in this order to make sure that the dado for the tread dado guard against the riser/tread below was cut exactly parallel with the top of the tread above, and at exactly the right rise height.

    THERE.

    Now, don't you feel inadequate?

    (Or at least, saner than that guy!)

    AitchKay

    1. Ryan1 | Nov 03, 2009 11:25pm | #4

      Saner than that guy for sure.... okay, maybe a little inadequate.

  3. jimAKAblue | Nov 04, 2009 12:53am | #5

    I always fastened the riser to the tread. The riser then helped hold the center of the tread from flexing.

    1. Snort | Nov 04, 2009 03:23am | #6

      Most stairs I work on have around 11" of tread showing. Off the rack treads are around 11 1/2" wide... doesn't leave a lot to hit with a pocket screw<G>I like to rip the treads to their exact width with about a 5° backbevel, then staple the riser to the back of the tread with about elventybillion staples, then smack all the staples with a hammer... usually stays together.http://www.tvwsolar.com

      We'll have a kid

      Or maybe we'll rent one

      He's got to be straight

      We don't want a bent one

      He'll drink his baby brew

      From a big brass cup

      Someday he may be president

      If things loosen up

      1. mathewson | Nov 04, 2009 05:13am | #7

        At times like these I refer to my copy of Audel's carpenters books. In my set on page 1295 it shows the American system- riser butting into back of tread and English system- riser landing on tread. In the American system the shrinkage is vertical and in the English horizontal.
        It also shows the concerns of the "real tweaker" on nosing wear and weak points.I personally butt the riser into the tread, more because that was how I was taught then any thought out decision and with todays glues I don't see the need for rabbets and groves.

        1. Ryan1 | Nov 04, 2009 04:22pm | #8

          Thank you all for the replies. Always interesting to hear how other people do things.

          1. frammer52 | Nov 05, 2009 11:23am | #9

            I have done it both ways, after all what do expect from a southpaw!>G<

          2. Ryan1 | Nov 05, 2009 04:26pm | #10

            Do you prefer one way to the other? Just curious.

          3. frammer52 | Nov 05, 2009 07:07pm | #11

            Just whatever mood I am in.>G<

            Only thing I could tell you is that makes any sense is the lefty thing, even that makes no sense!

  4. Geoffrey | Nov 05, 2009 10:01pm | #12

    Well, I guess I'll throw in my 2cents worth....

    I've always done the riser so it is set flush to the top of the stringer(s),leaving any gap at the bottom of the riser, this also gives support to the tread, also, any shrinkage on the riser is unseen, being hidden behind the tread or behind the Scotia molding....also this gives the best view as to fit and finish when looking up the stairway from the bottom...which is the view most people (guests) will have.  Any shrinkage of the tread will only be seen by someone who is actually walking up or down the stairs, and usually their focus is not on looking down at the stairs.

    Fitting the tread under the riser allows one to see this gap(shrinkage or seasonal movement)  when viewing the stair from below..which is where most people will be viewing the stairs.....not very sitely in my opinion.

    Setting the riser behind the tread also allows you to fasten the riser to the tread from the backside, which will also help to keep any shrinkage of the tread less noticeable.

    IMHO setting the riser on top of the tread is wrong, but that's my opinion...

    I'd go with option B

                                      Geoff

    P.S. If your talking exterior stairs, the same applies (option B), but I like to make a gap( 1/4" ) between riser and tread to allow debris to wash off the stairs, and it IS an exterior stairway  :)

                                                         

     

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