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Hi folks,
We are currently building a house that called for an 18 foot garage door. The frame for the door has already been built to accomodate an 18′ door. However, due to an oversight on the plan, the builder (who has been fantastic throughout), had to place steel poles at the ends of the opening to support the mass of the house above the garage. This eliminates 2 feet from the opening and we no longer have the larger door size. Now, we are hoping to upgrade to a large SUV (Yukon) later and would really like to keep the larger door, but the builder does not think it is possible. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to salvage the 18 foot door? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Dan
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How was it determined that supports for the opening were inadequate? Wasn't it specified as an 18' opening on the plans? Did it sag? The problem with large openings is usually the beam span and not the supports at the ends. If these steel poles were not placed on footings (which would seem unlikely if they were an afterthought) then they are not going be of much use. You would be better off resizing the beam to accomodate your 18' than trying to prop it up in the middle.
*Hi Mike,Thanks for the quick response.We were told that when the structural engineer came out to inspect the house, he noted the lack of support. The beam was originally supported by two 2x4s on each end but apparently that was not enough. The builder then bolted the two steel poles to sit on the concrete strip within the opening . Since the floor above the garage is already framed, is it still possible to change the beam length? If not, are there other ways around the problem?Thanks in advance.Dan
*Two jack studs, under an 18' span, with a second floor load, is not enough bearing area.Although it is possible to remove and replace the header, it won't be any fun.You may be able to remove the two 2x4 jack studs and replace with a steel column that has a larger bearing surface.You may still lose a few inches off the width by the time your builder gets some wood in there to nail trim to, but the door hangs in back of the opening and will still work.Terry
*18' doors?! ... I didn't even know they made residential doors that wide? Spliting it up into two separate doors with a support in the middle is always a possibility. Maybe not as aesthetic but two doors can be nice-looking.BTW, is a special opener needed for that big a door and what are the wind load ratings? I bet that wouldn't make it in the Southern Florida area???Mike
*MikeI have an 18ft door. It is "hard" on openers. After 22 years my 1/3 hp Chambelain is starting to show it's age.
*Bill, After 22 years though I guess you can't complain. After ** years I'm starting to show my age!!!Mike
*Daniel...Your situation is fixable. Go to an engineer and pay for details for another contractor to do the work if your contractor refuses and you still want the 18' door. Or strike a comprimise. I bet like mentioned above, the steel columns coould be placed outside the opening with a wee bit of finese and ingenuity.near the stream,ajBy the way...The plans should have included axact specs. to build span. So if the plans are lacking, then who provided the inadequate plans?
*Hi AJ,Thank you and Terry for the idea of placing the steel columns at the ends of the beam. I will run that by my builder and talk to other engineers/contractors should there be a problem. The plan was done by a drafting company with a good reputation in these parts (Northern Illinois). Our plan was handled by a new associate who must have neglected this aspect of the house. I will have to work out the financial aspects with all parties involved.Dan
*Hi Mike,I believe 18' doors are fairly common in new construction in Northern Illinois. I have been tempted to measure the door size of our neighbors' garages but did not want to get caught sneaking around and exposing my 25 foot Stanley.Dan
*Hi Dan, Yeah, I hate to get caught with my 25 foot Stanley out as well. But its not as having them see your 30 foot Craftsman. Mike
*I believe the problem with "supports" at the end of the beam is one of "stiffness" of those supports as well as compressive strength. You should be able to get 3.5" heavy-wall, square steel tube which should be a direct replacement for the double studs at the end. You'll want a plate welded top and bottom that extends outward from the opening -- you'll attach the new column to the upper and lower plates (wooden) through holes in the steel plate.Run this by your structural guy. He should be able to make it work.Garages are always too small. I made mine 24' wide with seperate 10'x8'(high) doors. How TALL is your door? Are you sure it's tall enough for the SUV you mention?
*Daniel, there are a number of fixes, especially if you are a little flexible.I have some questions.Do you currently have two jack studs and a 2x6 jamb? If so, then you really have three jacks.Two jacks would almost do the trick. If stiffness was a problem, then you could laminate an inside 2x to stiffen it. If compression of the jack end is the problem, you could cap it with steel.You could laminate a third Microlam along the entire length of the header and add enough jacks to catch some of the load. You probably would need to get engineering and bolt the new micro thouroughly.You could just add another jack and still mount the standard 18' door, if you are using a sectional door. The net rough opening will be 17'-9", but what's a few inches amongst friends?You could remove and replace the entire header and get adequate bearing. It might be a few hours work, but you'll be living there quite a while. Just do it.blue
*Dan, I am glad you posted this as I am also planning for an 18' door on my new house. We have a Tahoe and a 84 Buick Riviera and it is really tight with the 16' door on my current house. I like the single door because you can pull one vehicle in to the middle of the garage to wax it etc. I will have to make certain that the plans are correct in this area.Bill
*I have an 18' door in my house, what I've found through building a bunch of houses with them is that if it is not in a gable end you need to use a truss beam, as for modifiying the opening--c'mon guys--it's all just boards and nails
*Thanks, Crusty. I think the poles you mentioned are the ones placed inside the jack studs. Placing these instead of the jack studs at the ends of the beam sounds like a great idea and has been recommended by several folks. I'll definitely run it by my builder.BTW, the door is going to be 8' high and should clear a large SUV, but I'll check the dimensions of the truck to make sure.Dan
*Hi Blue,Thanks for the great ideas. Currently, there are two jack studs supporting the bottom ends of the beam with another 2x4 next to the jack studs going from top to bottom of that wall.I will present all the wonderful ideas you folks have provided to my builder next week. Again, thanks a bunch. This is a GREAT forum.Dan
*Hi Guys,To further muddy the waters, How about PSL columns instead of steel?Might be a little easier to work with than trying to mate steel columns to wood framing.I just built a garage with an 18' overhead door with a 2nd floor above and that is what we used on our project.Good luck-Red
*PSL stands for???? Purposely Slanted Laminations?Powerful Steel latticePeeled Sanded LintelsupportsI give up, near the stream,ajAha!...Parallel Strand Lumber!!!Sawdaddy....how many sq/inches of PSL columns support your PSL beams? and explain it all in detail...number of PSLs...what size...what the load book says...Is it all legal...Thanks..aj
*I cried because I had no shoes until I saw a man who had no feet.Just to put into perspective....I was at the neighbors house the other day. He just had one of those instant garage companies come build him a structure. Looks great!. He's got a garage, workshop, Gambrel roofed upstairs for storage/playroom. But while we were leaning on the tailgate talking, I noticed a 4x6 post under the header of his 14' garage door centered in the opening. HUH???It seems that they used two 2x10 and failed to even nail them together. Floor above hangs on the inside one and roof descends on the whole. They told him that it doesn't really need to be load bearing!!!!!!!???????!!!!!!!! and walked away with his $$$$$$$$$. He figures he got such a good price on the whole thing that he can afford to replace the thing himself. Meantime the 4x6 is looking like a bowlegged cowboy!We don't have a building ispectiopn or code enforcement here. Most of the local builders do more than what would be required but sometimes I wish.........
*AJ,We used two PSL columns, one at each end. They are 3.5 inches by 5.25 inches.They are supporting two 23.875 inch LVL's as the header, which are in turn supporting 24' 10 pitch attic trusses.We clearspanned 18 feet 3 inches and used 2x6 for jambs to bring the size down to 18'.As for legal, I hope so! The engineer from Delta Truss company (The truss supplier on this job) did the math for us and said it's AOK.Hope that's enough to quell your curiosity. If not, lemme know and i'll try and add more.-Red
*Piffin, for heaven's sake, warn the guy to put in a 16 or make it smaller. What good is a 14' door? I've never framed one in my entire career!blue
*The posts...Are they one piece or built up? And which way do the lams run just to complete my curiosity on these knew fangled posts?Thanks for all the details too. Oh...what's your roof loading there? Here we have snow, so 10 + 40.near the stream learning a knew trick,aj
*AJ,The posts are one piece. Typically they come in ten foot lengths and are cut down to whatever specific length you need. I suppose you can get them in longer lengths too, but I haven't needed them any longer so I don't know. As far as loading goes, we have snow too. (Michigan) Our roof loads are 53 psf overall.I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for when you ask which way the lams run though...-Red.
*Where are you in Michigan Sawdaddy. I'm in mid michigan, a little se of Saginaw.blue
*On a related note, most of my levels are Stabila, but sometimes I pull out my four foot Johnson....Mike
*Blue,I live just outside Flint and do most of my work in Genesee county.-Red
*Sawdaddy, were in the same neighborhood except I haven't done any work in Genesee. Most of my work is in Oakland and Macomb. I'm not opposed to working in Genesee, but I just haven't made any contacts with any builders there.I'm in Nw Lapeer about 2 miles from Genesee.blue
*blue,He builds small boatsWith the one door he can angle it in to the shop area and still have room for his wifes car. I wouldn't do it that way but then what do I know/. I wouldn't have framed like that either. He got himself struck by going with the cheap and fast crew.Contractors don't cheat people, they cheat themselves!
*I browse the society page on Sunday, looking for wedding announcements, ala Jay Leno. Two caught my eye tonight: the "Long-Johnson" and the "Roach-Coney" weddings.
*That's funny Crusty...I don't know how it fits into an 18' door thread, but nevertheless, it's funny.blue
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Hi folks,
We are currently building a house that called for an 18 foot garage door. The frame for the door has already been built to accomodate an 18' door. However, due to an oversight on the plan, the builder (who has been fantastic throughout), had to place steel poles at the ends of the opening to support the mass of the house above the garage. This eliminates 2 feet from the opening and we no longer have the larger door size. Now, we are hoping to upgrade to a large SUV (Yukon) later and would really like to keep the larger door, but the builder does not think it is possible. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to salvage the 18 foot door? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Dan