I’m interested in intalling a 6″ exterior door (inswing) into a 10″ wall. Should the door jamb (front) be installed flush with the building’s exterior surface or should it be aligned along the interior? If the latter, how do you prevent water movement back under the door?
Thanks in advance,
Sean
Engineered-stone shower panels are waterproof, but proper installation relies on tight seams and silicone sealing.
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Replies
Your door will only open to 90 deg if you pull the frame to the outside. (cant swing past the extension jamb.)
If you properly pan and sub-threshold the opening, you shouldn't have a problem with water entry pulling the frame in. (not easy, but doable.)
Concentrate on the pan/water direction and the threshold to jamb (extension) joint.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Thanks for the input Calvin. I appreciate it.
Sean
You're welcome.
And a welcome to Breaktime, where most any question will get a miriad bunch of answers.
Best of luck.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
> And a welcome to Breaktime, where most any question will get a miriad bunch of answers.Of course, if you were hoping for correct answers, or even ones that are somehow relevant to your question, you came to the wrong place.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
What Calvin said...
A 6" door is pretty thick and heavy. You must have some monster hinges for that thing!
or
do you mean a 6" jamb?
That fits the rest of the post and your question.
Set it so the hinges are at the interior surface of the wall. You can add extensions to the jamb and threshold to trim it
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hmmm, I was thinking it was really, really narrow...
LOL, my first take on it was that he meant six feet tall
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:-)
Maybe it's a really short, really narrow, and really thick pet door?
Isn't that how thick frenchy's door is going to be?.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Naw - I think his is a measely four inches - but it is only for the boat house so maybe his house doors are six inches. I think his walls are 15" thick
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And I've been using jamb extensions all these years to deal with wall thickness...It never dawned on me that you could make the doors as thick as the walls...kinda like a bank vault door. ;o)
I need to get some jamb extensions for an interior door - just small ones. The jamb is 5/8" thick. The wall is just a bit thicker than the standard door jamb that is installed (old 2X4 I think).Anyway, I'm having a really hard time finding jamb extensions in Columbus. Neither the lumber yard nor 2 big box places have them any more.Are you able to get them easily? If so, where are you getting them from?
Table saw?
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
The outfeed end of the table saw
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Bryan, I usually take a small pc of laminate and cram it under the rip fence of the table saw. Run the blade up through it while running to cut a zero clearance into it. Now when you run your strips through (thin) they won't chatter all over the place and get swallowed by the saw.
Usually.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
calvin
I did misunderstand. I thought you were saying you had installed a door at the inside surface of the wall, which would leave a lot of wall thickness to be waterproofed somehow.
I do agree that the best security hinges are the ones that interlock when closed. All I was saying is that the setscrew type are more common.
I worked for a window/door company some years ago on a piecework basis. We did a lot of kicked-in door replacements. It usually takes only one good kick to get through a typical steel door. Half the time the jamb splits. The rest of the time the door splits.
Thieves seem to avoid doors with a lot of glass in them. Neighbours will sometimes call the police to report the sound of breaking glass. They will rarely ever call to report one loud crash.
Ron
Ron, I've had the pleasure of detailing out a couple of deep set (from the outside) inswing doors. The jamb extension wasn't that difficult, but the real system to work on was the "sub-"threshold to jamb connection. In both cases I used a stone threshold that started under the factory thresh, the wider ordered jamb had an alum. extension. The rest (few inches) was stone and had decent tip to the ext. Both were trouble free.
These were masonry walls with the interiors firred out (2x4 flat with sheetrock). So, 8'' block and a 2'' fill to the interior.
Always a challenge, instead of answering-"can't do it that way".
Fun isn't it?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
yep.
Calvin nailed it!
he shoulda used screws...
I wanna hear more about the 10" wall. Is this a double wall? I have one project with 12" walls and we put all the doors flush to the sheathing. This limits the door to only being able to open 90 degrees, but it also keeps the number of seams (only one, vs. two that would be necessary with extension jambs on the exterior side) that can potentially leak.
but it also keeps the number of seams (only one, vs. two that would be necessary with extension jambs on the exterior side) that can potentially leak.
Why not just build the jamb the same depth as the wall? Door jambs are pretty easy to make.
Admittedly, a 12" net wall depth is pretty extreme, though. (How did you end up with such a thick wall, anyway?) But you could always edge glue stock to get the width to where you needed it. Even edge-gluing and clamping extensions to a factory jamb might work, too, I suppose.
Seems to me that in most cases where there's a thick wall one can afford to have a thinner section near the door. It can either be a thinner wall (maybe with solid foam insulation vs packed FG or whatever) or a wider door assembly with a "dark side lite" on at least the hinge side.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
We were using mostly prehung ThermaTru and Andersen Doors with stock jambs, then building extensions to the inside. The 12" wall thickness is from from 2x6 framing on the outside (w/R-21), a continuous layer of 2" Thermax inside of of that, then a 2x4 wall framed inboard of that (R-13). Why? Total fuel oil consumption for the past two heating seasons (combined) has been less than 300 gallons (sole source of heat for ~2800 sf envelope).
OK, thanks for the clarification. I was assuming this was a super-insulated wall design, but wanted to be sure.
With so much emphasis on insulation, wouldn't it make sense to use two doors, too? That would solve some of the installation issues, and would stay true to the superinsulated design objective.
You probably thought about that already -- what were your conclusions?
Hmm. Double doors to go with the double walls, I've never thought about it actually. Given the almost negligable fuel costs that we are seeing with the wall design, not sure the extra effort and cost for double doors, beyond good storm doors would be worth it. It's definitely something to think about though.
I've changed my thinking with regards to this installation. After looking at a friend's home, I can see the advantages to installing the door flush with the exterior and then building extension jambs to meet the interior wall. My friend has a 9" double wall and the door (inswing) actually opens to an angle somewhat greater than 90 degrees. This is fine for my purposes.
My 10" walls are double walls as well - for those wondering.
Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful comments.
Sean
Pardon my ignorance, but what's the benefit of using double walls?
I've put a lot of doors into thick walls and have always installed them to the outside. It has never occurred to me that there might be another way. Shows how limited I am I suppose.
The prospect of making it watertight after installing it to the inside is much too intimidating to even think about. I have seen far too many "waterproof" decks over living space fail. Don't invite the water in.
Put it outside, conventional techniques and manufacturer's warranties apply. You have to add jamb extensions - no big deal.
The jamb extensions can be shimmed in place then glued and toenailed by hand to the door jamb with a few small finish nails. These will hold well enough for the glue to work. If you need to put a nail where there are no shims, you can hold the tip of a prybar behind the extension there.
Door jambs are often thinner than the stock you will be using for an extension. With the extension set back for a small reveal, you don't have a lot to nail to. It can sometimes help to bend the tip of the finish nail a trifle so it will follow a curved path as you drive it.
Ron
I did the jamb to the outside here at our house. It opens against a wall on the inside, so more than 90+ degs isn't inconvenient. Funny though when many different people leave, they push instead of pull. Guess a result of it's deep recess from the inside.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Calvin,
I'm sure you have the skills to be able to do that and make it last. I don't trust that the materials that would have to be used would last as long as the door, or the house, for that matter.
Ron
Ron, in case you misunderstood: Our side door located in a 10'' wall, swings in. The interior jamb extension is a fuzz wider than the door jamb so no scratching of the extension by the lockset.
It swings in and opens to 90+ degrees.
I'm followed people out, even those that have been here b/4 and noticed several times they grab the knob, turn it and push-attempting to swing it out. I think that is a result of its deep inset (on the interior side).A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
"Funny though when many different people leave, they push instead of pull. "That is just because you have such a big commercial facility there!;)
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It's because they're in such a hurry to leave.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Does he need panic escape hardware then?;)
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With the door to the outside, in a deep wall, I would order it with an outswing so you don't have the bolt disfiguring the jamb extension on the way into the buried strike plate.The outswing is both more storm proof (wind pushing the door into the frame and weatherstripping), secure (can't be kicked in) and safer if you need to escape.Doors built for this application have to have hidden hinges or non-removable hinge pins or they are not secure (pop the pins and you are in).
"Doors built for this application have to have hidden hinges or non-removable hinge pins or they are not secure (pop the pins and you are in)."There is another way to do it and it is simple to retro fit if needed.Interlocking pins in the hingeDrill a hole in the frame hinge and run in a screw leaving it proud. Then cut off the head leaving about 1/4" sticking out.Then drill a matching hole in the door hinge leaf..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Basswood,
Outswing doors that I am familair with all have hinges pinned with set screws which are removable only with the door open.
Ron
I think actually better are the ones with pins in the hinge plates that lock into holes in the opposite plate when the door is closed, kinda paper punch style.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
A cordless grinder makes short work of any type of hinge.
No outswings on my house.
Now there's a thought that'll make you stop and reconsider...buic
The grinder will do away with the setscrew-locked hinge pin quicker. And if you really want to be sure on an outswing you install 1/4" pins in the door edge that mate with reenforced holes in the jamb.Of course, if someone wants in they're more likely to just throw a brick through the patio door and walk through.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
If I were a break-in artist, a cordless sawsall would be in my bag too
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Locks are for keeping honest people out...
That's what I hear.
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This thread is out of my area of expertise but I wonder about a storm and screen door. Wouldn't you want one of them and that would dictate putting the door to the inside of the jamb and then deciding where to place the jamb. In or out or center if it works.
Just something to think about.