Question on six panel interior doors
Out of lurk mode to ask a question. I want to replace the awful hollow core interior doors in my home with fir or hemlock six panel doors. I set out to look at some at a local door and moulding store near by, and was surprized to learn that all of the door’s frame (as in frame-and-panel, not the jambs) stock was veneer over MDF or chipboard.
I expected to find solid wood in these frames, but the sales guy claimed this was normal today and this was better because these products wouldn’t warp. I am skeptical, since the whole point of frame and panel construction is to minimize the effects of wood movement.
So, is the sales guy b.s.-ing me, or is this the practice today? Is this veneered construction better? Are solid wood paneled doors still made, short of custom made which is out of my budget?
Thanks,
George
Replies
We still get/use solid wood doors
Have you tried other suppliers?
If they're for yourself and you're not in a hurry, have you thought about making them yourself?
remodeler
In my area the sales guy would be telling you the truth. I have never had a problem with them, any reason you don't want them?
We're in high end customs & renovations. After much scepticizm we went with the veneer doors 4 years ago. We would never go back to solid panels. No warping, no splitting, more stable, no call backs, the only way to go. Also all of the trim carpentry subs we use love them and they see 20 or 30 times more installations than we do.
My circa 1680 house I just bought has some pretty old "solid" raised panel doors in it. I'm sure theyre not 323 years old but theyre pretty damn old....No warping at all.
Be old and unwarped :)
Namaste
Andy
"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy's don't warp because they were built back when trees were virgin growth and close, straight grained. You can't buy that anymore.
The lumber was stickered and air dried for up to seven years beofore it became doors. The inventory taxes alone would double the cost of lumber if that happened now. That curing period exposed the culls and gave a good cure to the rest. Now, it could be three months from green wood on the stump to a finished door. I read that the national indutry average for warped doors is about 15%. My rate for the doors I've made isn't that high but I know it happens and not hard to understand, considering condition of lumber today compared even to twenty years ago. Those machines don't hardly look at the wood the way I do.
I have to re-rip and glue up for rail and stile stock to prevent that yank from happenning. The pretty decent Morgan doors that I buy are veneer over re-ripped and laminated stock. MDF is extremely stable so I would have absolutely mo problem using it under veneer. Probably better door in this day and age.
Excellence is its own reward!
Yikes. Are there no more dissenters out there?
I, for one, compliment you on your skepticism. Just because "That's the way we do it these days, sir/maam" is what you hear doesn't mean it equates with good value or that you should follow the herd. Many of these doors sport ultra-thin veneer and weigh a friggin' ton. I've hung a number of them at the customers request, but discourage them in most instances. I was somewhat shocked when even Dean (Hometime) turned his nose up at these creations after hanging a few in a house last year.
Not sure how much is too much money for your wallet, but you might be interested in the products these folks offer. These look to be somewhat of a compromise.....solid wood panels.........stiles and rails laminated solid stock with heavy veneer (this is likely good for the reasons that Piffin alluded to as these folks probably can't take the time to hand select stock for these parts)
http://www.artisansmillwork.com/about.html
Perhaps the promise of a lower priced thin veneer door that should stay dead flat is somewhat more alluring if it's to be painted, but for an exposed wood grain application..........it's not for me. It doesn't take much to damage that super thin veneer and making an affordable invisible repair borders on the impossible in many instances. There's no steaming out dents when that incredibly thin veneer is just plain vaporized. Even if there's ####gouge in a solid wood door, I can usually make repairs to just that immediate area that will leave the repair virtually invisible.
If you do decide that you can't afford your ideal in today's costs and you hang an MDF door, I'd advise that you make sure your jambs are up to holding the weight before you retrofit one and/or get at least two long screws into the stud of the top hinge and at least one each on the others because when the door is in the open position the applied forces are different than when it's in the closed position.
For me, solid wood interior doors is where it's at for value; money wise over the long term and aesthetically . Evidently one of our clients agree as I currently have an order for fourteen custom solid wood doors.........construct and retrofit.
What about the screws in the door ? what keeps them from pulling out?
well, what about your customers ? will they maintain the stable conditions the solid doors need ?... if they will allow the house to swing from 10% RH in the winter to 50% RH in the summer , you are just asking for callbacks and disappointment..
if we want wood doors, we use the veneer over jointed stock... but we impress on our customers that the panels are designed to move.. so there will be little cracks around the panels.. if our customers are using painted doors we almost always talk them into skin doors, like masonite.. usually 6-panel... solid core...
why would you use anything else if you are going to paint ?
haven't used a wood door for paint since '84...
but hey, whadda i no ?
The ones I've hung have an adequately sized piece of wood embedded and glued to the edge of the door. I don't think I've ever seen a problem with them in that regard.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
What's wrong with warped doors? When they're closed they don't rattle in the breeze , wake you up and send you scurrying for the shotgun.
Since they're already warped, you never have to worry about them warping.
You don't have to be careful with them because they are just warped doors.
If your wife wants them painted you have a great reason not to.
They are much more interesting than regular doors, and often do different tricks depending on the humnidity and whatever else regulates them.
They are always good for venting your anger ocassionally because warped doors never break.
And lastly, they give you something to snivel and whine about when things are going along just a little bit too well for your comfort level.
Clampman
Thank you all for your replies. I'll try to answer questions posed to me.
1. If I had the time I's love to make my own doors, but I've too many unfinished projects going on now, one more would cause my senior management here at home to choke me.
2. I looked at the website suggested, and they're a bit out of my $ league, but thanks.
3. I will continue looking here in the Twin Cities area for doors that are laminated stock with a heavy veneer, and keep an eye on the weight of the door.
Think that covers it all, except that I am an analog person in a digital age, and prefer old proven technology over so-called improvements that usually are improvements for the manufacturer and not the customer. I also like repairable, and not replacable stuff. That's why I was looking for info on solid vs. composite/mdf/particle board core frames. I wanted to be sure that the change to composite was not simply for the benefit of the manufacturer. Seems like it's some of each- the usual problem with fast growth, poorly seasoned wood warping more that old wood, hence the use of composite construction.
Thanks to you all.
George