Today at our church we had the Director from the Local Habitat for Humanity come and speak. He said our local chapter wants to build 7 homes in the area this year and each home cost $60,000 to build. He said they are trying to get churches and civic groups to help raise the $420,000. What I don’t understand is that Habitat does NOT give these homes away. Why do we need to pay twice for these homes? Our local chapter has built over 30 homes in the last 13 years. Why can they use the money they get from the sale to build more homes? The staff they have is very small, I think they have less then Half-dozen paid staff.
Any Ideas?
Replies
They "give" to the international, so they can send missionary people and money to other countries. Admittedly, I'm very pessimistic and down on HFH, after having donated many hours and efforts to them, even being a super on 2 houses and a block super on a blitz(12 houses in 12 days) I left the ranks. I'm sure in my own mind, that some years down the road, the money trail will be revealed, and I for one ,will not be surprised at the outcome. It will probably make Enron look like Boyscouts.
I don't know about the money side of things, but I've tried two years running to be a volunteer with the local HFH, and two years running their communication has been so poor that I either could not get the time off from work booked far enough in advance (yes, I was willing to use my summer vacation to help out), or they were so sloppy with communications that I could not put any faith in their organizational skills.
Here's the basis of it - they messed up the names in their database. Or at least that's what I figure, since they changed both my name and my gender on the mailings they sent me, and the same happened to my DH. I realize that they operate mostly on a volunteer basis, but my view is that if you're going to ask people to give their time to something like this, it's only right that you make the effort to get their names down properly! Especially when our applications were sent via e-mail - you really need to make a BIG mistake to screw up someone's name that's been emailed!
Overall, I was really disappointed. Another factor that bugged me was the twice-daily prayer sessions I saw on the schedule. I'm all for people following their own religious preferences and beliefs, but I don't agree with forcing them on others, particularly others who are helping you out of the goodness of their own hearts.
HFH is a great concept, but I think perhaps it needs some re-working to keep it functional.
I'm actively involved in a local H4H group just north of Boston. Communications has been a big problem with our group. A volunteer (possibly long term volunteer) will contact the organization, possibly attend a once-a-month Saturday introductory seminar that we offer, but then a mechanism wasn't in place to take the next stop and contact him, finding out his skills and interests, and to fill him in on the work we would be doing at each site each weekend. To fix this, we are trying a mentoring system where a new volunteer will be given the name of an experienced volunteer to contact (like me). It is up to the mentor to get the volunteer's information and answer his questions about what the group does. When I first started volunteering, I overlooked the communications problems; not everyone feels comfortable doing that.
A couple other comments:
- As someone else said (Boss Hog?), a certain amount of "sweat equity" time is required of each homeowner. This varies from affiliate to affiliate. In the Lawrence, MA chapter I'm involved with, each family is required to put in 400 hours.
- Our affliate makes it a point to get the new homeowner involved in home maintainance type tasks (ex., interior painting). In this way, they have at least a few skills required for home upkeep.
- The "twice-daily" prayer session varies from affiliate to affiliate. Our group doesn't have any prayer sessions; another local affiliate says grace before the homeowner-supplied lunch.
I've found H4H one of the most worthwhile things I've ever done. I'm thankful our affiliate appears to be pretty well run (aside from the communications problem noted above).
Ron
HFH does not give their houses away but they do act as the bank and mortgage holder for their houses. Thus, the money that is raised is used to pay for the construction of the houses. The money that the homeowner's pay in their mortgage payment goes into the operating funds of the local affiliate. Much of this builds more houses.
For instance, our tiny affiliate, which has no paid staff and little overhead, collects between $6000 and $7000 dollars a year in mortgage payments from the houses we have built. This goes to the construction of new houses and reduces the amount that we have to raise from donors or allows us to build more houses than we would be able to do otherwise.
Every affiliate is run a little differently but we send 10% of our construction costs to the international. I think that this is earmarked for international projects. I believe that the international's operating costs are met with their own fundraising.
Yes, our HFH does tith 10% to the national HFH. I just dont understand why after you have built 30 homes you still need to raise 100% of the cost before you build the homes, then sell the homes. If habitat sells 7 homes this year for 60k that is 420k they will get back in the next 15-20 years. And that was only from 1 year. I figure they must have good cash flow with all thoes payments each month. I hope the board of directors isnt made up of "yes men". Most people in the general public think all charitys are great because they "help people" reguardless of how they spend there money.
If you were to work the business end of selling inexpensive homes at nearly cost and depending on the buyers to religiously make payments every month on time and never get behind and you had virtually no overhead....it might be a good deal.
I can't imagine that HFH is hoarding masses of cash to be used for nefarious purposes.
Set up a tax exempt charity driven by one of the countries largest industries, backed by the hearts of the giving, and take a 10% cut to fund other out of country "interests". I'm starting to wonder what we are funding.......could it be afghan rebels, muslim extremists...or is it really just building concrete huts in third world countries...........I think not. I hope I'm wrong. I'd hate to see the commercials on TV....dad, you really donated your Saturdays to fund the destruction of the twin towers?
Wow! You must read the Spotlight.
KK
You got me....never heard of the spotlight....what is it?
I hope it will never come down to that but if it does, considered myself warned.
A few weeks ago the local newspaper revealed the spendings of national charities and I was surprised to learn that a lot of them spent so much on administration a.k.a. marketing and especially telemarketing that I started to understand why I am getting so many phone calls. And of course these were all subbed out so there were somebody making way more than the charity ended up with. Now I am wondering about the whole charity scheme... you might be right, they could make Enron look like boyscouyts.
Tom
On a related note..... my BIL is the CEO of a local Credit Union(of which I am a member) they also operate under the guise of non-profit, tax exempt. They now take any (ANY) group , not just the original charter , and loan in excess of a million a month, have their own VISA and debit cards, and just built a new building(of which I got 0 work from thankfully) for just over 1.5 million. They employ over 100 people(2 branches)...............they lobby extensively against attack from the banks(who are trying to get them to play by the same rules as them). This too is BULLSHEET. Non-profit.....translated means...dodge taxes, have accountants move the cash in ways to do what you want, without THEM knowing.
... and I can't even get a line of credit from my bank without signing my life away, I think I have been talking to the wrong people.
Tom
I recall about 10 years ago I drove by a new car lot 45 miles away, saw a HD Chevy 1 ton dump, stopped in, drove it, and a 1 min. phone call and my CU faxed them a line of credit slip that had me signing papers to buy it. At that point I knew CU's are a bad idea. Nice to know you can have funds in heartbeat, but impulse buys can bite you in the arse. I came out good and used the hell out of the truck, but it COULD have been a bust.
>>impulse buys can bite you in the arse
I have learn to control my impulse buys but DW's impulse buys bite me in the arse...suggestions?
Tom
turn over?
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I took my helper (paid him, of course) to a disaster area where H4H was doing a 10 house blitz after a flood.. With a few exceptions, we were welcomed with open arms. There were a bunch of PA Mennonites, so there was optional praying, but that didn't bother anybody that I noticed. There was also group of kids (America something, I can't remember) who didn't know a lot, but whose energy was amazing. The homeowners were all working their butts off cleaning up the constant mess, digging, painting, and generally making all of us volunteers feel great that we were there.
Lot of work got done, not fine homebuilding, but it sure was fast homebuilding, and I came away feeling Habitat for Humanity is a real deal. EliphIno!
Ouch!
Tom
the CEO of Red Cross makes a very heavy 6 figures... i am thinking $ 400,000? The top man of the Salvation Army makes $13,000 plus a house & probably uniform allowance.... but you can figure where my $$ is going.
I do give blood to Red Cross tho.
I was a member of the Red Cross when I was in high school and even way back then I could see the politics in the administration. They don't handle the blood in Canada anymore, govenment politics.
Tom
Ever met a WWII Vet that would smack you if you mention the Red Cross....met 3. Never mention them again.
I think H4H is a sound organization, despite Keith's misgivings.
As I think has already been said, the houses are sold to "working poor" people. They aren't handouts. If it costs $60,000 to build a house, that's what the mortgage is. H4H doesn't charge interest.
The potential homeowner must put in 250 hours of work for H4H before they can buy a house. Don't know of any other charitable organization or program that does that.
The money that comes back in through the mortgage payments is used to build more houses. Some of the money goes overseas to build houses, just like in the US. The same program rules apply - The homeowner must put in sweat equity, and must pay the cost of the house.
I really think alot of the organization, and the way they do things. I like the idea of helping someone, but not giving them a handout. Since the homeowners have to work for their houses, they appreciate them. Give it to them for nothing (Like public housing) and they'll never respect it.
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.
Tofurther Boss's reply, I served on the Greater Columbus Ohio board for 4 years. Every affiliate has the ability to operate as an independent organization. Wether or not they do should be determined by the board of directors.
While I can see the concern of a possible enron like scandal for HFH international, the only way it will happen atthe local level is if no one asks where the money goes. You should and they should answer. Their is always a need for cash. I know we struggled with finding enough funds to operate and reach the goals we set. I can assure you the paid staff can easily double slariesin the private sector.
Bear in mind the goal of HFH is to erradicate substandard housing. Every year there is an attempt to set the bar for new builds higher to further the mission. More construction means a need for more money and volunteers. Hence the constant fund raising efforts.The money coming in from the mortgages is put towards building new house and yes it can also go towards the titheing to international.
Several affiliates are now following our lead and are operating building material resale stores to try and fund the overhead cost of the operation. The desire is for no money donated to build a house be used to cover overhead. It still hasn't made it but it is getting there.
I am reluctant to call HFH a charity as it is more of a helping hand. No body gets a house for free. I know we took several houses back. We were willing to work with the owners but if they are un willing to meet us half way our view ( & this should be the view of EVERY affilliate) was the resources are scarce. I f you won't work with us the resources will go to those who will.
As for the experience Keith and others have had, myself included, it is difficult for a building proffesional to work with them. You have a treemendous amount of good intentions combined with just enough knowledge to make one dangerous. They refuse to listen to our advice and can't see the value in re working a shoddy project. Management by commitee already is difficult without adding these additional factors. i have a couple of horror stories of my own from the 2 affliates I have been involved with.
I do plan on becoming involved again. It is a great program and capable of accomplishing great things. It needs more individuals from this industry involved. the only way to change it is form within .
Unfortunately, the "change from within" theory is one of the problems. The people who run the chapters don't want to be changed and view you suspiciously as a potential agent of change.
I've been out a few times over 4 different chapters, mostly on weekdays when there are very few volunteers around and you work along side the permanent staff and key subs (like electricians) - they're happy enough to see you that you feel welcome; but, the project leaders sure behave like they're nervous you'll upset their little applecart. This is definitely a "no changes are good changes environment".
On volunteer day, everything was different. The volunteers don't want to work along side the skilled (pro or amateur) workers: too much like playing pickup basketball with a couple of the Lakers on the court. Most of the men are with a significant (to some degree at least) other and don't want to be coached in public, no matter how gently. The women pick up knowledge and skills like sponges by getting tips from the pros: the guys don't like you talking to their wives/girlfriends and really resent if their "other" starts doing better than they are.
Most cannot differentiate between "my" tools and the H4H tools they're allowed to use, so the experienced folks start keeping their tools in their trucks and just getting what they need, as they needed it; every couple of minutes you'd hear: "I have to go to the truck, watch my stuff.", this starts to make everyone edgey. And, of course, towards the end of the day everyone starts to get tired, sloppy, and accident prone - not a happy environment..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I've volunteerd twice with HBH. When our hockey booster group was big we put together a couple of fifteen person parties and went. It was fun for the group. I don't think anyone brought their spouses so we didn't have the problems Phill describes. The first time we were doing punch list work after the majority of the framing had been done. A buddy and I were the only two that had any experiance. we hung the windows and doors ply wooded the inside of a shed stuff like that. At first we were both amazed that they refused to use nail guns. When we got the site supervisor off to the side we quized him about some of the techniques. He pointed out that they had nail guns, but didn't use them on volunteer days because it would move along to fast and everyone would be done by noon. And most people were promised that they would get to pound nails, so that's what made them happy. The eight inch nailing pattern on the banding was a little extreme I thought. but I didn't have to drive them. It was funny because he had like five women lined up pounding eights with little twelve ounce hammers and every once in awhile one would get one that wouldn't go down. She would cry out. "Gunner can you hit this nail for me?" I would come by with my framer and sink it in three or four hits. I loved it.
Anyway after I got to watching what was going on, and looked at it in perspective. They did a pretty decent job. They are paranoid as heck about people standing around and talking. And I can't blame them. But at the same time they have to aproach it with diplomacy. It's a tough balance to achieve. The second time we went wasn't as much fun. Somehow the team caught wind of it and decided to offer three players. The coach decided to hold practice at the last second. So when we got there we were three people short. Anyway we hauld pre built walls out to a site and basicly got it ready to put together. Not bad, most people would have rather hammered but we made it fun anyways. My experiance both times was good. But I came into it with the attitude that it was their house, and I was just there to help. I believe that's the only attitude to have when you volunteer for something like that.
Edited 2/25/2003 6:01:35 AM ET by Gunner
I've worked with quite a few volunteer efforts similar to Habitat and donated money and materials to them. I've seen the good and the bad sides of these outfits.
What you said about tools reminded me of something tha happened on a site. This was a local that was prganized q lot like habitat but chose not to be afiliated with them. Anyway, I stopped by the developement (eight houses for low-income, first time owners) where they were all doing their required hours on their own homes. I was there to talk to another sub about another job. While I was talking with him, I satrted helping handle some materials for someone. It was an hour before I got back out to my truck and the ladder was gone from on top. I had to spend another half hour wandering the sites to find it. By then, it was in two sections, with one employed as a chicken ladder and two people on it. I started talking about "my" ladder and needing to leave. When I had to get to the point of saying that it took quite a nerve to steal someone elses tools, he got real indignant, "Hey you watch that! Stealing is mighty strong language to use"
I had to ask him what language he would use if I went to his truck and took something out of it without asking and then didn't want to return it immediately. When he amswered "borrowed", I told him he had two minutes to "return" it to the lender. He did.
If he had been nicer about the whole thing, I would have made arranged to loan him a better ladder and given him advise how to do the job better and easier. Since he acted like a jerk who had the right to commandeer my tools, I let it all slide. His roof is leaking today because of his attitude and the way he was installing it.
I prefer to do my donated work on my own schedule, like the roof I installed for an older couple here with lots of leaking going on. Didn't have to negotiate all the internal politics of an organization that didn't seem to want professional help.
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Ledebuhr,
I think your best bet would be to contact the local Habitat For Humanity and ask them this question. You will learn a lot no matter what.
There is a web site that posts the tax returns of non-profits, but I can't seem to find my bookmark. If I remember I'll ask my wife.
Another day, another tool.
Rich,
I contacted my local H4H last lear to offer my help. I had to leave a message because nobody answered the phone after I made repeated attempts to talk to someone.
About a week later I received a letter in the mail stating that they had all the labor they needed and I could best serve them by contributing money or materials. Were not on speaking terms anymore.
WAHDView Image
I'm sure it's frustrating form your perspective.
But keep in mind that building the house is only the last 2% of the job. The vast majority of the work is in planning, fund raising, and other
parts of administration.
We tried to start a chapter in our town, but it didn't work out. Everyone said that they would be happy to come out an pound nails, but nobody wanted to do the other 98% of the work.
And keep in mind that the building process is part of the fun for the volunteers. They don't get to help build a house very often. It's a big deal for them. When professionals show up and want to speed through the work their way, it just doesn't mesh with using volunteers, unless both groups have a lot of patience and understanding. Having the volunteers work along with the homeowners is part of the ministry.Budget: A method for going broke methodically.
Boss,
I am well aware of what it takes to build a house. Your 98/2 is a little more than way off.
I am willing to offer what I have to offer. They were not interested in that. I guess I will have to stay with paying customers.View Image
Don't know why you say "Your 98/2 is a little more than way off."
There are hundreds of hours put in BEFORE the first dirt is moved on a house. Setting up the chapter takes a lot of time. There are minimum standards required before H4H will consider you as a chapter.
Raising money takes tons of time. Settimg up committees and selecting families takes a lot of time. Fundraisers, meetings, paperwork, bookkeeping, etc. all take time and volunteers.
Maybe my 98%/2% isn't accurate - Could be more like 95%/5%, or something like that. But my main point was that they DON'T have trouble getting people to help with the actual construction, but DO have trouble lining up help for the other stuff.
Don't criticize them because they don't need what you want to offer.Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home.
98/2 might be just a bit high, but this is not standard construction. You can't just call the drywall sub when it is ready.
Or just call the HVAC sub to put in the furance. You have to start calling around to see what kind of deals that you can get.
Well you find a tech school that says that they will do the sheet metal work as part of the class project, but that it will take then 3 weeks. You find a dealer that was stuck with a bunch of furnaces from a tract project that went belly up and will let you have one for 1/2 price. But it is a different size and style from what was specd. So know you need to work with everyone involved to see if that furance can be made to work and at the same time still calling around trying to get the type of furnace orginally specd.
So you get that worked out.
Now you have a group of 10 kids coming in for a weekend to work on the house. Now the can't do the electric or plumbing. Buy the could do the drywall or insulating. So you need to find 2 experienced people that weekend to train and supervise them. You also need to find housing and food for them.
Then you find out that the electrical has not been inspected, but the inspector is suppose to be their friday just before the kids show up. But you know that he often runs late and it will probably be monday. Until a sub you can't just call them up and reschedule them. So you have to change plans and find something else for them to do.
Then you need to find other volunteers that will then do the job that the kids where orginally going to do.
That is in addtion to all of the "normal" problems of house building such as delay delivers or a defect product is shipped, etc.
There are a lot of good criticisms of HFH here. I hope that everyone will keep in mind that this is not a monolithic organization. Every affiliate is different, some organized and run by volunteers on a part time basis and others with a full-time paid staff. Our little affiliate is pretty strong on the construction end of things, involving local tradespeople and using them alongside amateurs. We are weak in other areas. My advice to all out there is that if you don't like something about the organization, help them fix it. Our affiliate needs all the help we can get, though we have enough old sinks for ten houses. We need tradespeople, bankers, lawyers, cooks, and gophers.
Go to
http://www.guidestar.com/
to see the tax returns of "more than 850,000 IRS-recognized nonprofits."
A really cool site!
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
I used to fume when I heard about the operating budgets of some of the big charities.
But one interesting piece of information that I learned along the way: Remember the "We are the World" fundraising thing? Bob Geldof organized that and his 'mission' was to raise money to distribute to needy and to avoid any and all administration - as much as possible. He, too, worried that charity organizations tended to eat up some of it just to operate and he felt he could do better.
I read a follow-up article in Rolling Stone where they tried to follow the money and to determine if the project had been a success. The upshot was that they had raised tons of money, and had distributed lots of it, but that dealing with very large quantities of money, and making shure that it got to the truly needy, and that when it got to them, was used for their benefit (however one defines that) turned out to be REALLY, REALLY hard.
In the end, he ended up with pretty much the same amount of staff and administration (even though he tried to keep it all volunteer you still need some paid staff for some things). I remember reading that article, and feeling like I had a bit more understanding about just how hard it is to make sure that your charity is a useful, good thing and that the maximum amount of it is getting to where you want it.
It is easy to criticize, if anyone has data about an organization they found doing wrong then bring it forth. But it is unfair to speculate about it, or to take one experience and to apply it to a whole organization without deeper study.
Boss, Bill and Norm:
In the interest of choosing my battles, I'm letting this discussion go. I am not subscribing to all of what you are saying. I'm just not that interested in this subject and lack the energy to do any research.
I look forward to future more meaningful banters.
WAHDView Image
I can live with that.
Nobody said we had to agree on everything here.If a case of the clap spreads, is it then considered a case of the applause?
Here is the BBB report on them.
http://www.give.org/reports/care_dyn.asp?213
The highest paid person is $100,000.
They spend 74% on programs, 22% on fund raising, and 4% on administration.
Thanks for finding this. Those are actually pretty good numbers. 26% total overhead is fairly low. Not spectacular, but much better then most charities. 4% administrative costs is superb. They must function almost totally with volunteers to keep it that low.
I don't remember where either, but I used to know where a site was that let you look up lots of info on different charities. Many burn 70% or more of donations in overhead and fundraising. A lot seem to operate more as job programs for the people running the charity, much more then as groups trying to improve the world.
That is the site. Here is the point to lookup by name.
http://www.give.org/reports/
It is the BBB giving alliance. And they have other information about charities and what questions to ask.
WAHD --
I had the identical experience with my local Habitat. I thought about it for a while, and decided that whoever was on the phone just didn't understand that they needed me. I just showed up on site with my own tools, just like a real job, and showed that I knew lots about how to build houses. They were delighted to have me. After I'd been working with them for a while, I could see what caused the initial rejection. To a great extent, Habitat gets volunteers with good hearts and no building skills. The management problem is how to lead them to get useful work out of them. Habitat has to limit the numbers of these people because of the lack of people who know enough about building to lead others who don't. If you're like most of the people who read this board -- that is, you're a pro builder, or an advanced DIY -- you'd probably be welcomed by your Habitat. I say give 'em another try.
Jamie
It seems that the people our local HFH pics to be homeowners are clueless about construction. I have seen very questionable building prastices go on at a site. something only someone with building experience would see. For example, our HFH has a whole neighborhood that they built. None of these home have any kind of water barrier under the vynal siding(no tyvex). There excuse is "Thats the way we always have done it, and there still standing". Also, going to a building site, you will see many people standing around and leaning on the wall. I think alot of people that have no skills go so they can say they "helped".
I had a similar experience. Went down on a Saturday for the first time with my own tools, ready to do whatever, and they asked what I could do. I said pretty much anything, and they said to help out hauling trash from the back yard. Not exciting, but I figure that's what needs to be done most urgently. As we were heading out the super says he will be pretty busy gettting ready for electrical inspection on 4 units and wouldn't have much time to supervise that day. I ask, "do you need some help getting ready?" and he says "why, can you do that?" I told him of course and we went right back inside. he hands over a few kid volunteers and says to teach them a few things, and we proceed to fix up the dozen or so violations which would have caused him to blow the inspection the following day. needless to say we become friends and asks when I can come back.
I'm sure others would get a similar response. Hope this helps. Rich.
I had some experience with H4H. Basically a bunch of inept do-gooders getting in the way, along with lazy unappreciative homeowners. Not for me.