questions for brick and stone experts–
I would like to have the front steps/stoop replaced on this house.
sorry for the picture–I have a zillion pictures of the house and neighborhood–but never took a better picture of the steps—-and it’s dark outside right now.
At any rate–have been trying with limmited success to locate someone to re-build these steps
contractor A( I have actually seen his work on chimneys–in fact a couple of his chimneys showed up in one of my FHB articles)–any how contractorA looked at the project, scratched his head a while–called me back every 2-3 weeks for a couple of months to let me know he was still “working on it”—then eventually told me the project was too big for him.
contractor”B”——in reality a young union brick layer-working side jobs—very enthusiastic—–but i have concerns wether he could actually do the job—or if so–complete it in anything like a timely manner . also-price is unrealistically low in my opinion.
contracto”C”–stumbled across this contractor while driving to one of MY jobs earlier this spring/summer. “C” directed me to 3 similar projects—it’s clear “C” could do the project from a trade perspective.
however—“C” kind of comes and goes from his projects-they drag on—-and it has taken him over 3 months to give me a “firm” price on this project—and I still don’t really have anything written down. I am reasonably comfortable that C could do the project and the steps would look like they had always been part of the house—-but I anticipate many “business hassles”—the taking 3 months to price it–bugs me. Price wise————it’s just beyond the upper limmit of my comfort range–however I would pay it without question–if I was convinced the ” business hassle “thing wouldn’t be a major problem—–also , price was(after 3 months) CONSIDERABLY higher than originally indicated.
Contractor”D”——- referall from stone yard—looked at project same day as original phone conversation. called me back 2 days later with 3 prices. prices in line with “C” prices— but I am not quite getting the vibe this guy can handle the project so it looks like it has always been there.——“D” doesn’t really seem to want to show me any examples of his work that are similar( In fact only “C” has shown me anything similar–and HIS most similar project was considerably smaller
contractor”E”-we have spoken on phone-he is referred by same stone yard as “D”—but has yet to look at project or give price. “E” casually mentions he does work for one of my neighbors-who is a G.C.( I grew up across the street from the neighbor who is a G.C.
for the record– I am not considering steps with concrete treads( that’s what is there now)
looking at either
1) brick tread/brick riser—concerns about freeze thaw issues in n.E. ohio
2) stone tread(briar hill)/ brick riser———–“C” points out briar hill stone will closely match stonework elsewhere on the house.—“D” wanted to use limestone–and seemed oblivious to the stone surrounding the front doorway.
thank you in advance for any and all information/advise— I am certainley out of my area of expertise on this one—-but the front steps/entryway is one of the most important features of this house–and I don’t want to screw it up.
Stephen
contractor
Replies
Sounds like this post belongs in the classifieds thread. At this point, the obvious answer is to keep looking 'til you find the guy you're comfortable with. My guess is he's old, semi-retired, and doesn't advertise. Guess I'm not saying nothing you didn't already know! =)
Just out of curiosity - have the freeze/thaw issues affected the existing concrete steps? Why are you unhappy with the existing? Are you looking at a complete demolition and re-build?
- Huck (not a mason)
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
since it is daylight now--- here are some more pictures.
I'm thinking these weren't original to the house. You have any idea of what that might have looked like Stephen?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
calvin,
one of the guys to actually look at it suspects the top 3 steps are original--but that the bottom step was scabbed on at some point.
his reasoning is--that the placement of the second step from the bottom--symetrically-------is where the bottom step should be. look where the step meets the house/stonework. He feels that the top 3 steps were intended to be the whole thing--assuming a certain grade----but that there were some "grading issues" at the end of construction-things didn't grade out as planned--and that the bottom step was scabbed on.
He suggests reducing the treads from 14" to 12 inches-which allows him to center the steps within the stone work--more like he feels was intended.--says the 14" treads is an oddball size anyway.
Stephen
For some reason to me the fan shape doesn't fit the house-and I'm definitely no designer so take it with a whole lotta salt. I understand the stepped down stonework on the house (picked up again on the corner of the house) and can see where that might suggest the treads following it, but don't agree. Seems that the side exits with the fan go nowhere.
How bout some other house entries in the block photo's. And when was this street built timewise?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
calvin,
I am not saying you are wrong
for all i know-these are not the original steps
BUT--
if they are not the original steps-- i still suspect the original steps had this shape
Reason #1 is the neighboring house.
not quite visible in the neighboring house picture---is a smaller set of similar shaped steps. Neighboring house is smaller and predates mine by 15 years. Neighbors house has only 2 steps..
Reason #2 is THIS house. this is the house built by Seiberling-- the man who started Goodyear Tire and Rubber.-- it's not, of course, to everyones taste---but here in Akron it is pretty much considered the end-all and be-all of houses--built circa 1910's---it influenced a HUGE number of houses built in akron for at least the next generation--particularly houses built with rubber company money. My house sits on Firestone Blv.-across from Firestone Park----3 blocks from Firestone Tire and Rubber
see the connection??????-
wether the fan shape suits the house doesn't mean it wasn't original--it's a common local style----anybody with some scratch at the time---had to have their mini version of seiberlings house, LOL
Calvin--you did prod me to investigate the obvious----------- the ORIGINAL plans for the house i have sitting here in my office in the shelves next to this computer---------------
( insert sound of stephen" dope slapping "himself)
front elevation shows 2 steps-much smaller than existing steps-----much more proportional to the neighboring houses 2 steps.
Can't quite tell if they are semi circle or not---but as drawn---2 semi circle steps are much more balanced with the front walkway and the front entryway.---- front elevation as drawn-seems to indicate that the planned finish grade was somewhat different than the way it worked out-------------------------
Stephen.
Any foundation plan with those, might indicate the perimeter.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Calvin,
A) you are a freaking genius
B) I am a total idiot
plans are primarily exterior elevations, elevations of interior built-ins, stair case iron work( railings), fireplace mantles and so on.
Basement plan shows a rec room, furnace room,laundry room,fruit room,store room etc.
however FIRST floor plan--mystery solved.
As originally planned on the drawings--------- 2 steps were intended with concrete treads.- from the center line the Bottom step was to be 5'-6" on either side-total width 11 ft.--a quick trip to the truck for a tape -reveals the 3rd step fits this dimension---- and is balanced within the facade( not that balance is particularly important here-these tudor types are locally notoriously non-symetrical)
seems pretty clear-------semi circular steps were always planned for this---but grade was something of an issue---and changes were made.
makes me wonder if my neighbor the landscaping contractor might be able to solve part of this problem-that is, re-grading and fewer steps.
BTW-date on plans is 1941--neighbors house-quite similar,but smaller-is about 15 years older
stephen
front steps werenot the only things built considerably different from original plans
as planned--garage door was to be 90 degrees from presant location--right where that flower bed is.
Actually- I would have preferred it their--but I assume some lot set back,property line issue made the turning radius too tight.
Are these houses from the 30's?
We've got an area called Old Orchard that has several blocks of brick homes built in that time period. I might have some time to go and take a look, photo some that might get your creative juices flowing. One builder in particular, a German, included some unseen ideas to the area. One continues to aggravate me when doing remodels. Spitznagle houses-steel joists and concrete floors. Man, there's a challenge when you're used to wood frame.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I'm with Cal on this.
When I opened the first new pic, my instant reaction was " I wonder when they added those"
I would not be surprised If the originals on that house weren't even round, In fact I'd bet they weren't. - not that they can't be.
Seems to me twelve may be better also - depending on the rise.
Since you're not in a pinch, I'd keep shopping. Have you related to the guys that you have talked to that spring would not be the end of the world?
Good luck.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
my intent is to have these torn out--and new steps built with brick risers and stone treads.
I AM aware that fall is a busy time---however I started looking for someone for this project in late may/early june--that's what is frustrating.
doesn't matter to me AT ALL--if this project is done this year--or next year. I am perfectly willing to wait for the BEST time for the project-AND the mason. Frankly- I suspect at this time---by the time someone started this fall---- there would be freeze thaw issues.
also---cost is always a factor---but it is pretty far down on the list for this project- the important thing being that it look appropriate to the house---and preferably like it has always been there.
stephen
Your pic's don't show enuff a bit further away, but this is my two cents.
At either side of the bump out framing your entrance (the outside of the bump-out wherre it returns to the main house), at about the second step's base, a large stone joint runs horizontally. The same on both sides.
At that line and at both sides (remove everything inside), I suggest making a small retaining wall out of your bricks (you'll need more) that flairs out a bit to run along the sidewalk (that flairs now). This will essentially recreate the originally intended grade for two steps. Then place your two semi-circular steps back in as you spoke. A third step down will take place straight ahead, connecting both side retaining walls. Put somewhat of a curve to that, matching the others.
I like the stone tread idea. On the top, such stone will need to be laid with the cuts forming a continuation of the semi-circular pattern.
I'll bid $99,950.02. You buy lunch.
Edited 9/22/2007 12:05 pm ET by peteshlagor
I am not familar with the briar hill stone for the treads , but looking at your pic of your house that is what you should go with in my humble opinion, the steps and such I have done with intermixing of stone and brick will make your steps 'POP' as they say on T.V. ,it really looks good, and the stone will last though plenty of winters , another thing ,are the steps pulled away from the stoop ?or is everything still well connected ?You do know that fall is the busiest times for masons don't you? seems like everyone wants to get things done before winter. and I'm sure their prices like mine reflect that.
As far as your choice of contractors, I would go with the one that seems the most honest and steady, as hurrying on a masonry job ,such as this is a recipe for an unsatisfactory job.as this is not a production project as what the young union fellow is maybe use to,as most of the finer more detailed jobs go to the older most expereinsed masons in the local.
If I where bidding on the job I would give myself at least a week to do the job of just laying the steps as there is a whole lot of hurry up and wait to a job like this.
Hazlett
masonary work tends to be relatively easy.. I found out myself. If you look at the pictures of my home at 85891.1 you'll see the stone work I did which going on 6 years now has yet to show it's first crack. While the work a professional did has two small cracks.. I was charged $3000.00 for the first bit (about 200 sq.ft) while my cost to do a similar size portion was only around $450.00 the rest was labor and profit..
Your young guy working side jobs is likely going to be your lowest cost with possibly the best job.. He's anxious to get a reputation and will most likely do excellant work. as to schedules I would ask him for a commitment and provide him with a reward if met. If he committs to say three weeks tell him if finished to your satisfaction by that time you give an added $200 bonus (or whatever is suitable)
Who knows, he might someday be famous for his work and you can advertize your home with masonary done by....
Frenchy-RE: the young guy doing a side job.
I am aware he might POSSIBLY be a diamond in the rough.
however-without seeing anything similar he has done- I consider it to big a risk.( Back steps maybe--front steps on the BLV.--too much risk)
As far as doing it myself--it is beyond my ability-and makes poor financial sense.
like it or not, I will make MORE money pursuing my own trade in the same time it would take me to build these steps--and I am certain the WORST of these guys would do a better job than I could
which brings us back to--cost is not the primary factor here--it's important--but for this project it ranks maybe #6 or #7--. Factors 1-6 can't be solved with money------where as cost--can be solved with a relatively easily available commodity-more money.
stephen