I have a small bathroom (50 sq feet) in my 1920’s Craftsman Bungalow – the existing fan is noisy and and as a result, my wife refuses to use it…the result is me repainting my bathroom beadboard ceiling every 3 years as the paint cracks from the excess humidity. The existing fan vents up into the attic crawlspace and out via one of the gable-ends (~15′ run through the attic).
I’m hoping someone can advise me on a replacement fan that will be quiet and efficient so I can convince her to start using it when she takes a shower.
Thanks for any advice you can offer.
Replies
The quietest is a remote fan -- a fan in the duct several feet from the grille in the bathroom ceiling. Several manufacturers make these. Eg: http://residential.fantech.net/residential-products/inline-duct-fans/inline-exhaust-fans/
With regard to "normal" bathroom fans, there is a fairly wide range in terms of the noise they put out. Most fans put their "sone" rating in their specs on the box, and you can compare these to pick the quietest. Also note that the taller/deeper the fan box generally the quieter the fan -- small short fans tend to be the noisiest. Some years back I replaced our noisy 50 CFM (minimum spec) builder fan with (IIRC) an 80 CFM Broan unit. Couldn't be happier -- you can't hear it run if the shower is running, and it clears out the fog much faster than the old fan.
Change the switch
After you install a quieter fan, wire it to the light switch so that it will be used.
Leviton makes one that that after the light is turned off, the fan will continue running for a set number of minutes.
You could also put the fan on a timer that could be actiavater as you leave the bathroom.
Terry
Yeah, we have our fan on a mechanical (twist knob) timer switch. This allows it to run 5-10 minutes after you leave the shower, and if you "make a smell" you can flick it on for 5 minutes and not worry about having to come back later and turn it off.
dgale
I've been very satisfied with Panasonics line of bath fans.
If you don't go remote, these are pretty darn quiet. Since you're concern is moisture, don't get too small of a fan and do put it on a timer.
Ditto on the Panasonic line of fans. I've found the best prices at IAQSource.com.
A friend of mine who is an electrician, installed a Panasonic Bath fan for his BIL. When he got home after the installation he got a call from the BIL saying the fan wasn't working. Yup, you guessed it. The BIL couldn't hear it but it was working.
On on large powder room reno..........
I had to light up so the inspector would pass the fan.
He had good eyes tho..............
You're saying that after a few drags he agreed to sign off?
you know
"light up or leave me alone".
quite fans
I have seen displays of vent fans in various retail outlets that allow you to activate differnent models and compare the noise each makes. This would give you some idea of what you can expect before you buy and install.
I like the timer switch idea... Leviton makes some nice electronic ones with 5, 10, or 15 minute delays.
If you decide on the local rather than remote unit, you can further isolate the sound by installing rubber or drywall shims between the mounting hardware and the ceiling joists.
I think the mechanical timers are more intuitive, and they provide finer adjustment. Plus they're easier to use and don't look as dorky.
>>>Plus they're easier to use
>>>Plus they're easier to use and don't look as dorky.
To each his own, I guess. The knobby-turny thingies always looked dorky to me, and I usually prefer electronic devices over mechanical.
Scott
The electronic Levitons are smart looking and simple. My choice as well.
Don't Like Remote
I tried the remote Fantech fan, and I discovered that its noise transmitted back to my bathroom. I think the quietest is a Panasonic (4 sones or less), and it can also come with a light. If you don't have an easily accessible attic area, you probably wouldn't wish to install a remote fan, anyway. If you have 50 square feet, go for the 100 square feet fan. No more noisy but better performance. Not in box stores -- order over the net. Their web site has a pdf download of installation instructions so you can see if it would work for you.
Barmil
I've used panasonic's remote fan to vent two baths. Even the bath withing 8 ft of the unit is quiet. Only thing you hear is the air going past the grill. Mounted so no vibration and using minimal turns will keep at least this brand completely quiet.
Your sone ratings for their fans are way off. All the models barely reach 1 sone. Many if not all have some sort of "smart" technology that boost the fan in the event of turns etc that normally lower the cfm ratings. Even under stress, the sone rating is just over 1.
A bath fan with a 4 of any brand would have bad bearings. The first thing I do when looking at a bath remodel is find and turn on the fan. Some have seen use when the drywallers were sanding...............nothing since. Often they sound like a coffee grinder.
Nutone and Broan (same) have come a long way since those 70's fans. The sone ratings are lower but can creep up to 3 pretty quickly. I still suggest Panasonic first off to customers. However, their beauty rings leave a bit to be desired.
You Got Me, Calvin
I was pulling the Panasonic sones number from memory, but, of course, it's much, much lower than I stated. I've used both rigid PVC and flex metal for attic ducting, and either seems to be okay from my experience. But never that cheap plastic dryer stuff. I insulated both. Four inch minimum, after all, it's not a wind tunnel. On the outside, I've avoided dryer type vents and have gotten professional metal ones, like from Grainger. Have to be leveled to ensure they close properly when not in use.
bathfan
Definitely, positively, make sure: vent thru the roof to the outside.
Venting warm air into the attic -even if it has endlouvers- is asking for trouble
This is the second post you've made to me and for the life of me I'm wondering......................Did you mean the reply to me or someone else?
thanks.
quiet B R fans
I have noticed suggestions as to swiching in some of the replies. Another you might consider is a motion detector like we are required to use in offices etc, to comply with the energy codes. This way you can be sure that the fan will be doing it's job without anyone having to take any action. It can also set with various time delays.
A better option may be a switch with a built-in humidistat, so that it runs until the humidity drops.
>>>A better option may be a
>>>A better option may be a switch with a built-in humidistat, so that it runs until the humidity drops.
Ya! That'll fix the wife problem. Heck, you could even put it in with the old noisy one so the fan can't be suppressed!
Hahahaha...
*Scott ducks and runs for cover......
(But srsly...it's a good suggestion)
A few options here, including fans with the built-in humidistat: http://www.bathroomfanexperts.com/search.php?keywords=humidistat+switch
You can probably find a few more with more Google searching. And I did actually see one once at HD.
Thanks for all the great suggestions - I'll check out the Panasonic fans. Any advice on sizing the fan for this bathroom?
Code minimum is 50 CFM in most places, and that's what most builders install. In our small bathroom going from 50 to 80 produced a dramatic improvement -- from being really foggy after a shower to clear -- so anything above 80 CFM is probably find for your small bath. There are people here who'll insist you need 150 CFM at least, but I don't see it.
Thanks - I found a 80 CFM Panasonic fan for ~$100 that has a rating of <0.3 sone...sounds like the ticket. It is larger than my existing fan, so I'll have to enlarge the opening in the ceiling but no big deal. I also am going to need to upgrade the vent pipe as it's currently just a flex pipe. I presume 4" rigid pipe like I'd use for a dryer vent would be the best choice?
>>>I presume 4" rigid pipe
>>>I presume 4" rigid pipe like I'd use for a dryer vent would be the best choice?
The HVAC guys here all use 5" for bath fans.
Rigid is better, but flex is not the problem that it is with, eg, a dryer, since no lint (to speak of) collects inside a bath vent. And the duct should generally match the size of the outlet on the fan, though you can go an inch smaller (with a reducer) in a pinch (eg, it's inconvenient to replace existing ducts), and should maybe go an inch larger if you have an exceptionally long run.
When I replaced our fan I did it arthroscopically -- operated entirely through the opening from the old unit, enlarged to fit the new one. (Getting the duct attached was a bit of a trick.)
>>>When I replaced our fan I
>>>When I replaced our fan I did it arthroscopically -- operated entirely through the opening from the old unit, enlarged to fit the new one. (Getting the duct attached was a bit of a trick.)
This is nice to hear.
I'm not pleased with the ones we put in the new house, but of course it's now insulated and drywalled, so I've often wondered how much pain is involved with ripping out the old crappy one (Broan) and retrofitting a nice new Panasonic or Fantech.
Doable?
ventpipe
stay away from flexpipe.
Use only rigid materials
Remember also.......
The make up air has to come from somewhere. Leave a decent gap under the door for while you're in there with the door closed and the timer switch is very important.
The make up air has to come from somewhere.
Why do you think they call it a "fart fan"?
Awesome.
Thanks.
Scott
Doing a swap with a panasonic is not that big of a deal...............
Getting the old one out, might be.
You'll need to use some flex on the new to do the hookup, and maybe a block on top of the drywall on one side of the unit.............but you can fasten the rim of the panasonic to framing/blocking. Wire it, tie on the flex you've got connected to your existiing rigid, shove it in the hole and screw it down.
Work over cardboard, you're gonna drop something.
In an attic situation-pc of cake.
The problem with using only flex, and not figuring out some way to do the connection with the unit in place, is that you need several feet of flex to give you the "leash length" necessary. The several feet of flex itself won't cause a problem, but sometimes there's no effective way to make the distant flex connection working through the hole.
Dan
Sure, not easy but doable.
That's why I've been successful in this business-able to do the almost impossible without tearing out the ceiling.......
if possible.
Wouldn't have worked in my case. Each case needs to be evaluated individually, I suspect.
Each case needs to be evaluated individually, I suspect.
.
Remote Panasonic. I put in two Panasonics in my new house. 250 cfm (served 2-3 rooms each). It is so quiet, I often forget it's on. Best control is a timer switch so it shuts itself off after e.g. 15+ minutes.
Vent Cap Advice
Looks like I have a fan and vent pipe picked out and now just need to figure out the vent cap. The existing fan vents through the gable end in an old funky galvenized cap that I was to replace. I looked around and it looks like my choices are either the flat type of vent with the three plastic louvered doors, such as this:
http://www.iaqsource.com/product.php?p=fantech_hs4w&product=112104&category=2363
Or a galvenized cap with a louvered door, such as this:
http://www.iaqsource.com/product.php?p=american-aldes_22404&product=174255&category=2363
Beyond the aesthetic differences between the two, any input on functional differences of these two and a preference either way? Whichever way I go, I want to be able to paint it to match our siding but either of these options should be paintable. Otherwise just curious which is the preferred way to go.
You will have to play around with it a bit.............
to make it not want to allow entry of cold air when not in use.
I prefer a better cap, but they are hard to find. Better being they will have a gasket of sorts on the door and will have a better spring (the 3 tiered plastic ones don't have any spring-some of the metal have a limp wire spring)
But all is not lost with your second choice.
You may be able to add a foam stick on gasket................might work.
but you can add on some weight so the thing won't flop around at will.
Silicone and temporarily tape (or use the metal foil duct tape) a good sized fender washer to the inside of the door. Keep adding weight until you're just under what the fan will open.
The best exhaust vent is the "mushroom" style that consists of an elbow capped by a sort of squat coffee can. Inside the "coffee can" is a floating cap that does the actual closing (very tightly), and the "can" keeps all rain out.
But these are ugly as sin.
I've used them for a dryer vent.........
and maybe there's a smaller version for a bath vent. I don't think there'd be enough push on the larger dryer style.
As far as the looks........................
I've had people say-oh that? it's cuz they got ray-don.
Yeah, we have one for our dryer (the things are relatively immune to lint, and reasonably easy to clean when the lint does build up). But I've seen smaller versions for vent fans (though not recently).
I took a look at amazon
It says there that it could be used for both kitchen and bath venting..............
We have one similar to the plastic unit, and it leaks a little (staining the bathroom ceiling) in a driving rain from the southeast (which is where it faces). Thankfully this only happens once every few years.
Thanks for the input - I opted for the galvanized cap - mostly because it looked sturdy and less likely to leak in a rain storm...I live in Humboldt County and all it does is rain from Oct-May. THe plastic one just seemed like I was going to get what I paid for. I'll see how it performs in terms of air leaks and if so, try out the fender washer weight. Seems like a fan like this would put out a lot less air pressure to open the louver door than a clothes dryer would (?), so I assume I want to be careful about too much weight on the louver door or it will create back-pressure and reduce the efficiency of the fan.
It'll be like adjusting the sinker weight on your lure..........
so it doesn't get hung up on the bottom.
Temporarily tape it on and have someone inside turning the fan on/off till you get the proper ballast attached. Who knows, you may not need it-some folks want complete seal-age and remodelers have to come up with ways to get around less than perfect material.
Of course, the fan itself generally contains a flapper, and you can add others in-line.
Flapper.
Aptly named as that's what it does in all the fans I've installed.
Flaps when the fan is off.................due to air feedback from the loose fitting wall or roof cap. The seals are poor on both.
The only thing you've got going is protected exit point or long run.
The panasonic remote units had the best sealing gate. Coupled with a good roof cap, provided no air blowback.
Same goes for this scenario-Exit point - one of those galv. caps with the thin wire spring on the leeward side of the house.
Light wind volume on the other side. Open the door-quick and steady entry of air into the house-almost can't just slam the door shut with your foot-because of the availability of point of air exit past that flapper and out the wall cap.
Conversely, if there's another appliance going-furnace or kitchen exhaust fan, you've got a ready source for makeup air.
I'd like to see them attach an energy star and mean it to bath fans and their accoutrements.
Thanks for all the input - new Panasonic fan is installed and works like a charm :-) You have to listen really hard to know it's on and the best part is there's no residual moisture or condensation in the bathroom after taking a shower when it's been running. I came into the bathroom yesterday and to my surprise, my wife had it on without even having to remind her - good sign. It's wired together with the bathroom ceiling light, so while it doesn't have a timer at this time, it's pretty obvious it's on if the light is on also. This was an easier fix than rewiring things to add a timer, so I'll give this a try and see how often it gets left on for excessive periods of time.
Thanks again for the input - it made making the right decision much easier.
Way to go.
If the light is necessary when occupied and once showering is done and the occupant doesn't leave immediately-should work fine.