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I wanted to go a little deeper into the discussion from a couple of weeks ago about these systems.
I just came across a new system called “Warmboard”. The piping is snapped into grooves on top of the subfloor. It looks to be a great system but I’m concerned with how little subfloor is left below each tube. They say that anything can be installed over it (even hardwoods). How does this compare to installing piping under the subfloor. Pro’s or Con’s?
With the under floor, do you attach it to the bottom of the subfloor, to the side of the joist or suspend it. They show a reflective insulation below it. Is this needed, and if so, how is it placed?
When it comes to zoning, do you do each room on its own t/stat or group them?
We’re in the process of designing a 1 1/2 story home with a basement. The basement slab is self explanatory, but the 1st and 2nd floors I have questions about. I’m going to pick up Holohans book, but in the mean time, any input would be apprieciated.
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Done tons of wood framed floors as described. Forget all the "gadgets oor gimicks" for setting the tube on top of the subfloor unless you plan to screed a sand and cement substrate. If you want a wood floor on plywood subfloor, do it. Then go below and staple your tube to the underside of the plywood. Insulate the joist space with R-19 or better and the heat will migrate up though the wood. If you have to set your tube before you lay the hardwood, either use nails that don't pierce the underside of the subfloor or set your tube to hang beyond the protruding nails. Otherwise, wet stuff!
*Warmboard...hmmm.1) Your tubing spacing is limited by what's on the board. Less design flexibility.2) They want you to use their tubing that snaps into their grooves. Less design flexibility.3) Did I mention that by virtue of 1 & 2, you just lost a bit of flexibility in your layout?4) They want the product installed, the tubing set, THEN proceed with rest of the framing & construction. No thank you. 5) Do you want tubing under your cabinetry? Not normally. Same with a few other places in the house. Using warmboard as non-RFH subflooring is an expensive proposition. At about 1 1/8th's inch thick it can't easily be blended with non-warmboard subfloor.6) I don't like to read about the need for "supplemental joists" to stabilize the subflooring...just more wood to get in the way of the mechanicals.I'm sure it's a fine product and will capture some portion of the market...but it's an unneccessary inconvenience."...do you attach it to the bottom of the subfloor, to the side of the joist or suspend it." Staple to the bottom of the subfloor. Typical is two runs per joist bay spaced about 8" apart."They show a reflective insulation below it. Is this needed, and if so, how is it placed?" That's your radiant barrier that helps the heat go to where it's wanted...the living space. I use half-inch foil-faced rigid foam board insulation (RFBI) cut in 8' lengths and friction-fit them in between the joists. Depends on what you use, but you can usually tuck the foil-faced RFBI right up against the staples and that will give you a steady gap between the insul and the subfloor. I then place FG batts (R-19 in basement ceiling/1st floor, R-11 on all other floors) under that for added insulation."When it comes to zoning, do you do each room on its own t/stat or group them?" Depends on how your going to live in your house. You can do it but you don't have to. Typical is t-stats in the main occupied rooms, then use the valves to balance the temp in the other less used rooms. You can spend big money on RFH controls...and not always get the control you want or need.As usual, my opinions. Someone else out there already loves this stuff...more power to them.
*Thanks for the input guys. So if you're stapling it to the underside of the sub floorr, how does it pass through each joist? It would have to be at least 1/3 down from the top? Doesn't all this rigid andbat insulation interfere with other things that occupy the joist space?
*where can I buy the tube to staple. Can I use the same system that people put lay on top with concrete around it? I have a 1986 home with thick car decking but I don't want to pour concrete or whatever to make a radiant floor. the floor is post and beam with 4 ft spacing.Is the car decking too thick for the heat to migrate up past it into the stone tile floor?thanks frank
*Frank,I've used "Heatway" twintran & entran. Looks a lot like air compressor hose. Think they advertise in F.H.C. Knott,I use a Milwalky-Holehog with short, self feed fosner bit. Drill your holes at the same elevation to keep the hose as level as possible. As long as the R-value of the insulation is higher than the R-value of the materials above, the heat will migrate.Luck
*Mark, Mongo, Do either of you (or anybody else) know anything about Stadler Climate Panel? It's intended for use on top of the subfloor, too, but it's only 1/2" thick. The tubing is visible when you're laying wood finish floors on top.Ron
*Ron,Nope.Luck
*C. KnotI'm in the same design mode you are.I found tremendous help from this sitehttp://www.radiantdirect.com/Hope you do to!Peter
*Ron, I've seen it, but never used it.
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I wanted to go a little deeper into the discussion from a couple of weeks ago about these systems.
I just came across a new system called "Warmboard". The piping is snapped into grooves on top of the subfloor. It looks to be a great system but I'm concerned with how little subfloor is left below each tube. They say that anything can be installed over it (even hardwoods). How does this compare to installing piping under the subfloor. Pro's or Con's?
With the under floor, do you attach it to the bottom of the subfloor, to the side of the joist or suspend it. They show a reflective insulation below it. Is this needed, and if so, how is it placed?
When it comes to zoning, do you do each room on its own t/stat or group them?
We're in the process of designing a 1 1/2 story home with a basement. The basement slab is self explanatory, but the 1st and 2nd floors I have questions about. I'm going to pick up Holohans book, but in the mean time, any input would be apprieciated.