Replies

1. 
   CloudHidden | Sep 02, 2007 06:03pm | #1

   It is possible, but it's more difficult and I question the effectiveness. One of the biggest benefits of floor heat is warm feet. The same btu/h with cold floors feels different.

1. 
   bigbossman | Sep 02, 2007 06:07pm | #2

   Ok do you know about the effectiveness of heated towel racks that mount to the bathroom wall? Are they a good option for a small bathroom (7 X 7)? Do they discolor walls at all? Is one brand better than another?

   Looking for alternative to radiator heat and want to keep as much space as possible.

1. 
   splintergroupie | Sep 02, 2007 11:45pm | #8

   You can google "heated towel racks" - lots of information out there.

   Other alternatives are cove heaters and radiant panel heaters.

1. 
   KenHill3 | Sep 03, 2007 12:21am | #9

   Not walls, but ceilings. My experience would make me shy away from ANY radiant heat within/behind drywalled surfaces-A few years back I was working on a remodel (house age less than 10 years) where the HO wanted cracks in the ceiling DW repaired. Cracks basically ran along many of the long seams near the center of the room. I cut out the tape, retaped, mudded ,and retextured as normal. The cracks all reappeared. Turns out that the home had elec. ceiling radiant heat. You could actually open and close the cracks by turning the heat on and off. No option but to leave it that way because the HO didn't want to install a new heating system.

   Edited 9/2/2007 5:22 pm by kenhill3

2. 
   rich1 | Sep 02, 2007 06:14pm | #3

   It is very possible to do. 

   One of the dissapointments of infloor heating is that often the floor doesn't feel warm, but it is still putting out heat.

   A towel warmer is probably easier to install.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/2/2007 11:16 am ET by rich1

1. 
   bigbossman | Sep 02, 2007 06:22pm | #4

   Ok how do I get the most bang for my buck when buying a heated towel rack? One brand better than another without breaking the bank?

3. 
   shelternerd | Sep 02, 2007 06:40pm | #5

   I did radiant heated shower walls for a while. Decided after four of them that they were not worth the effort. Radian heated towel bars are absolutely a great idea and you can tie them into a re-circulating hot water system on an occupancy sensor so they only heat up when someone is in the bath.

   One of my dreams is to make a radiant heated back scratching and hand warming station in my mud room. Just a three foot long section of 2" copper with hot water running through it mounted three inches out from the wall #### to neck height. One-of these days.

   M

   ------------------

   "You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."

1. 
   bigbossman | Sep 02, 2007 06:47pm | #6

   Any idea where I can get more info on these heated towel bars? How good they are at heating hot water as compared to electric? Sizes they come in and colors?

    

1. 
   shelternerd | Sep 02, 2007 06:52pm | #7

   We've always used the electric heated ones and bought them from Ferguson, can't remember the brand name but I noticed that they had hot water heated towel bars as an option. We were running our heated walls off the recirculating hot system and still run little zones of heated floor of the re-circ using the Laing and Grundfos systems (the Maitland de-mand is too energy efficient to work this way)

   The towel bars don't heat the water, they use hot water from your plumbing system to heat the towels and to a certain extent also heat the bathroom. A heated floor is really great if you have the habit of leaving wet towels on the floor. And in general it can be really nice to have the bath room warmer than the rest of the house on a cold winters night.

    

    

   ------------------

   "You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."

   Edited 9/2/2007 11:54 am ET by ShelterNerd

2. 
   shelternerd | Sep 03, 2007 02:28am | #10

   The ones we used were Myson brand, but when I google it all I see is the electric units, which is what we used. The hydronic units I see on-line are close to $3,000 each. A while back I built a hydronically heated bed. (I was single at the time and had too much time on my hands) It was uprights of 1 1/2" copper with top and bottom rails of 1 1/4" copper and "pickets" of 3/4" copper as best I can remember. It's been about 8 or 9 years. It would have made a nice towel warmer but I used it as a radiator to heat the sleeping loft in my bachelor cabin.------------------

   "You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."

2. 
   NRTRob | Sep 03, 2007 05:44pm | #22

   What' the effort that mad you stop?The only thing that's tricky is if you want to independantly maintain a wall surface temp. Otherwise, it's just a loop or an extension of a floor loop, some plates and some insulation.pretty easy...-------------------------------------
   -=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
   Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
   http://www.NRTradiant.com

1. 
   plantlust | Sep 03, 2007 08:29pm | #23

   You may want to ask Assibams (in CooksTalk) about her walls. I visited her in Germany. She put radiant heat in the wall of her living room. I'm sure she'd remember how it was done. Keep in mind this is an OLD mill w/walls a couple of feet worth of stone thick.PlantLust is going to have a piffy attitude until a decent dentist is found.

2. 
   shelternerd | Sep 03, 2007 09:25pm | #25

    

   <<What' the effort that mad you stop? The only thing that's tricky is if you want to independantly maintain a wall surface temp. Otherwise, it's just a loop or an extension of a floor loop, some plates and some insulation.pretty easy...------------------------------------->>

   Fair enough, all we were doing was setting a loop behind the tile backer and strapping it down with copper straps and some foil insulation behind it. But there was so much more bang for the buck in the floor staple up that the walls seemed frivolous considering how little heat actually came out.

   M------------------

   "You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."

1. 
   NRTRob | Sep 03, 2007 09:30pm | #26

   OH, gotcha. We just use it to supplement floors, not in replacement. Try it with some aluminum plates sometime. Like the attached photo, but sideways for a wall.Makes for a nice warm shower wall, *when the heat is running*. That's the only downside... if they have a warm wall one morning and not the next, they may want an "on switch" or a wall sensor ;)-------------------------------------
   -=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
   Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
   http://www.NRTradiant.com

1. 
   shelternerd | Sep 03, 2007 10:15pm | #27

   Yeah we were using it to supplement too, only found we were supplementing something that didn't need supplementing.------------------

   "You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."

2. 
   SamT | Sep 04, 2007 02:44pm | #28

   My dream BR will have radiant heat in the floors, walls, ceiling, doors, windows, behind the mirrors, and in all the fixtures too.Have I ever mentioned how much I hate a cold BR?If I put it in the middle of the house, it would be the only heat source I need.SamT

4. 
   IMERC | Sep 03, 2007 04:26am | #11

   it is but not any where's as efficient as in the floor ...

   consider you have gracity to wrk against..

   Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

   WOW!!! What a Ride!
   Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

1. 
   rich1 | Sep 03, 2007 06:06am | #12

   Actually it is usually more effecient.  Less r-values to deal with.

    

   And it is "radiant" heat.   Gravity ain't a factor.

1. 
   IMERC | Sep 03, 2007 06:53am | #13

   how so???Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

   WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

1. 
   rich1 | Sep 03, 2007 08:44am | #16

   How so what?   Heat travels in all directions.  Hot air goes up. 

1. 
   IMERC | Sep 03, 2007 09:05am | #17

   how so more efficient???

   heat goes up the walls and keeps the ceiling comfy...

   then what???

   how are we dealing with less R factor here???

   what happens to the middle of the room???

   what are we using for a heat transfer medium within the walls???

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

   WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

2. 
   rich1 | Sep 03, 2007 11:16am | #18

   The wall is the heat transfer medium.  It becomes the rad and radiates heat.

   The only r value to worry about is the drywall.  With a floor you have the floor covering to worry about. 

   Think of the wall as a cast iron rad, but you don't need the surface to be as hot.

   It doesn't matter where you stand in the room, you feel the heat. 

    

3. 
   IMERC | Sep 03, 2007 12:00pm | #19

   and what of the air cavity in the wall???

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

   WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

4. 
   rich1 | Sep 03, 2007 03:04pm | #20

   Sorry.  You need to insulate behind the tubing.

5. 
   IMERC | Sep 03, 2007 08:33pm | #24

   I know ya do...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

   WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

6. 
   NRTRob | Sep 03, 2007 05:42pm | #21

   Not true: you need line of sight to the wall, and the closer you are the more you'd feel it ;)nitpicking, I know.-------------------------------------
   -=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
   Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
   http://www.NRTradiant.com

2. 
   RBean | Sep 03, 2007 07:14am | #14

   Three articles on radiant walls published in HPAC Canada at this link:http://www.healthyheating.com/home-heating-system-design.htm<!----><!----><!---->

   Locate Lean on me Part I, II and III Radiant heated fireplace.<!----><!---->

   Also search radiant wall articles by Mark Eatherton in Contractor Magazine.<!----><!---->

   Radiant Heated wall panels featured here:http://www.healthyheating.com/Radiators/radiators.htm<!----><!---->

   For towel warmers, top brands include Runtal or Myson.<!----><!---->

   Towel warmers with flat surfaces are better choices than rails...think surface area for radiating and contact area for warming towels.<!----><!---->

    

3. 
   BillHartmann | Sep 03, 2007 07:39am | #15

   2 or 3 years ago there was a guy here for about 6 months IIRC.He had a number of insteresting energy ideas. One of which was to insulate the walls with only 1" of foam for air sealing and to reduce cost and then install FG bats.One thing that he did was to solder up some copper tubing for a towel warmer and run the hot water line to the shower through it.He was also selling an ebook from his website.Maybe this will jog someones memory and find his description of the towel warmer..
   .
   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.