Replies

1. 
   rjw | Feb 23, 2004 05:55am | #1

   Metal.

   IMO plastic always looks cheap and poorly done.

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2. 
   WayneL5 | Feb 23, 2004 06:10am | #2

   Metal.  Plastic has high thermal expansion, and the sections creep, eventually pulling out one end and leaking.  They have to be repositioned periodically.  Also, the material deteriorates in sunlight and gets brittle.  Dark colors fade, but are not easily paintable.  And the brackets are fragile and easily broken from ice and snow.

3. 
   davidmeiland | Feb 23, 2004 07:43am | #3

   After much debate I'm having a sheet metal guy make some fascia gutters for me out of 20 gauge galv. I'm going to do some research and paint the insides of them before installing, to try to increase the lifetime. I'd do it out of copper but I want to paint them and I'm going to install a galv roof, so not this time.

   Most aluminum gutters are easy to dent when you put a ladder up to go on the roof, especially the seamless ones that so many outfits do. The painted finish on them scratches if you look at it, and when you walk past the corner of the house and whack a downspout with a box you're carrying, you get a dent. Plastic looks like hell.

   I used one roofer who installed really nice aluminum gutters. It was quite a bit heavier than the usual stuff and was not seamless--used couplings to make long sections. Alcoa? I forget.....

4. 
   RCovell | Feb 23, 2004 08:54am | #4

   Here in the Kansas City area, we see a lot of seamless aluminum. Lots of colors available and several ways to mount it, including hidden top brackets which make the install nice and clean looking. I put my ladder up against the gutters all the time, and if you're careful, you shouldn't have any problems with it. Economical, durable and relatively color fast, I recommend it. Bob.

1. 
   SHazlett | Feb 23, 2004 06:34pm | #5

    Bob, I agree with you entirely.

   any reasonably competent tradesman should not have much problem avoiding ladder damage to a seamless aluminum gutter.

   As a roofing contractor I put ladders against them  every day.Initially I try to set the ladder so that both ladder rails are right on a gutter spike or bracket. I will set the ladder a little steeper than usual so that more weight is on the feet and less on the gutter. Carry a 3 foot piece of 1x6 "gutter board" up the ladder and lay it on TOP of the gutter( horizontally). Tie  off or bungee the ladder and go back down and re-set the feet in a more comfortable position. ( I still usually keep the ladder a little more vertical than a lot of guys like it. If there aren't gutter spikes or brackets positioned whereI want them---no problem----I carry some hidden hanger brackets on the truck which I can install anywhere I want them. Total time for a  safe ,dent free ladder set up is usually less than a minute.

   I also own and use from time to time a number of ladder stand-offs. I try to avoid using the standoffs  because they are much more likely to damage siding---particularly aluminum siding----than ladders are likely to damage gutters.

1. 
   davidmeiland | Feb 23, 2004 06:37pm | #6

   You are unusually careful. I've had painters damage gutters to the extent that they had to be replaced and I had to fight with the painter to finish the job even though I withheld the cost of the fix. I've had roofers damage them too.

1. 
   SHazlett | Feb 24, 2004 05:27pm | #9

   David meiland,

   I may be carefull----but I wouldn't say "unusually carefull". It only takes a few seconds to properly place the ladder.

   not to find fault with anyone ,but------shouldn't that MINIMAL effort be the LEAST you would expect from a professional tradesman?

   If a tradesman can't be bothered to do something as fast easy and effective as I described----I would expect them to be as equally uncaring with some of the basics of the painting or roofing job.remember------the need to protect the gutter is ENTIRELY forseeable---and it happens on every job. It should be second nature. If the tradesman isn't prepared to handle the entirely forseeable--------what sort of hidden problems is he gonna cover up?

1. 
   davidmeiland | Feb 24, 2004 06:14pm | #11

   Shaz,

   When you do large scale remodeling, a couple of crews, a lot of subs, you unfortunately can be guaranteed that someone will jack something up. In the case I'm talking about it was painters and their unskilled labor left unsupervised. I dinged them for the new gutters and when the roofer was replacing them I took a look at a piece that was on the ground. It seemed about as rugged as a diet 7-Up can and I resolved not to use the stuff again. It is possible that there's heavier gauge aluminum that makes a better product, someone told me that somewhere along the way. Yes, though, you're right in the ideal world everyone is careful.

   I had a roofer who set his ladder like you do. It was so steep I could not climb it. He went up and down with rolls of material like it was a staircase.

2. 
   Tharrett | Feb 24, 2004 06:30pm | #12

   The aluminum stock comes in three different thicknesses (0.025", 0.027" & 0.032").  If you specify the 0.032" thickness along with the proper hangers and hanger spacing, you should not have a problem with denting.  Go for the hidden hangers screwed through the fascia board into the rafter tails.  Ask the installer to show you a sample and you would probably agree.  The other benefit of aluminum that (as mentioned above) they can be roll formed on sight (ie seamless).  Also, the aluminum suppliers bake on a factory finish that is far superior to what the typical homeowner or painter can apply to aluminum.  Check out the 20 or so standard colors, hopefully you can find one to match.

3. 
   davidmeiland | Feb 25, 2004 01:48am | #13

   Good information about the thickness choices. No doubt the roofer I'm ranting about put on the thin stuff. He was a friend of the owner's and for some reason my boss at the time agreed that we would use the owner's choice as our sub, instead of my very groovy tried-and-true roofing sub. Later on we had a major leak due to the roofer omitting big piece of flashing at the chimney. I had to drag him through the mud to collect the $2500+/- that the repairs cost us.

5. 
   Lateapex911 | Feb 24, 2004 05:56am | #7

   Check out Classic Gutters. Metal, great stuff.  Available in colors.

   http://www.classicgutters.com I think...

   Jake Gulick

   [email protected]

   CarriageHouse Design

   Black Rock, CT

6. 
   Mongo | Feb 24, 2004 08:04am | #8

   John,

   One of the nice things about metal is that if you go with aluminum, you can go seamless. They'll bring a truck to your house and roll the gutter in one piece, on site.

   No seams, easy to get the right slope, cleaner lines, etc, than looking at several 8' or 10' pieces cobbled together. It's also easier to paint aluminum than it is to paint plastic. Hint: Have them roll the gutters then leave for a few days. You prime/paint them on the ground. Then the installer comes back to hang them. Easy to do.

   If you go copper and can't find it locally, do a search for "Berger Brothers". Good stuff and they ship everywhere.

7. 
   DanH | Feb 24, 2004 06:10pm | #10

   I agree with Bob and others that plastic always looks like crap. If it doesn't start out that way, it will end up that way after a year or two. Plastic's OK for small areas (a small entry porch, eg) but sags over longer distances, and the frequent seams are unsightly.

   The heavier gauge, better quality seamless aluminum is nearly as dent resistant as steel, and really looks nice when installed by a competent outfit. (Of course, an incompetent installer can make a mess of anything.)

   I have heard of seamless steel being installed by a few outfits, but I'm sure that finding an installer in your area would be a challenge. Plus, I don't think it comes pre-finished.

8. 
   donpapenburg | Feb 25, 2004 04:28am | #14

   I like the Classic gutter  from Kalamazoo they have copper and aluminum, fancy and plain hangers.

   I got aluminum for my shop and wifes summer kitchen . I plan on getting the copper for the house when I get that far.  It will take quite a whapin' to dent the aluminum gutter.  The dingbat at the freight company can do it with the hyster.

9. 
   AlanSenoj | Feb 25, 2004 04:43am | #15

   To go back to your original question, definitely metal over plastic.

   And, try and get prefinished steel over aluminum.  I always specced it when I lived in a medium-small prairie city, and did exterior renovation for a living. 

   Steel has two advantages...the aforementioned resistance to denting. Way stronger. No problem with ladders against them.

   And it doesn't expand and contract like alum. Look at any aluminum job after a few years and you'll see the spikes starting to loosen. I've been able to pull them with my fingers. The longer the run the worse it is.

   Good luck

   Alan Jones
1. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 25, 2004 04:51am | #16

   >> Look at any aluminum job after a few years and you'll see the spikes starting to loosen.

   Isn't that a sign from God that you should use screws instead?

2. 
   xMikeSmith | Feb 25, 2004 06:06am | #17

   alan... steel will rust in no time.... and spike and ferrule is a lousy installation..

   either use a fascia hanger 2' oc.. or a roof hanger 2' ocMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   AlanSenoj | Feb 26, 2004 03:11am | #18

   Mike,

   That prefinished steel is zinc coated, then factory finished. Sold as roll stock.

   It's the same process as steel siding. You may not be aware that some of the metal siding jobs you have seen were probably steel. Looks pretty  much the same, but less oil canning and more dent resistant.

   I went by a house last summer that I resided at least 25 years ago. It still looked good. (as good as a synthetic siding can look) Certainly no rust.

   The best brand I ever applied was made by US Steel and I believe it had a 50 year warrantee.

   AlanAlan Jones

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Feb 26, 2004 05:36am | #19

   alan.. would you use it on the ocean like we are ?.. salt air and wind blown spray can do some pretty corrosive thingsMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   AlanSenoj | Feb 26, 2004 06:29am | #20

   Mike,

   Good question, I'd have to check that out with a manufacturer.

    Even as I posted I remembered that you were on a coast and wondered about that.

   I used to live on the prairies, pretty dry. The only salt in the air would be spring time from all the salt and potash they'd put on the roads in winter to melt ice,  (this is for all you Southerners--Heck, I hear you don't even know what a block heater is!).

   I now live on the west coast, but don't do much exterior stuff. And my tastes have changed from synthetics. I still think they have their place, though.

   AlanAlan Jones