Replies

1. 
   rjw | Sep 14, 2003 09:48pm | #1

   I haven't see any used in my area, but it strikes me as a lousy idea - as a home inspector I am a firm believer in moving water well away from the house.

   The rain handler doesn't: Rainoff is converted to a 2 to 3 foot wide band of soft rain-sized droplets sprinkling the landscape.

   "Designed by an aeronautical engineer:"  Well, I suppose when I want an airfoil on my house, or they start building aeronautical devices with basements or crawlspaces or on slabs ....

   _______________________

   Why Don't Blind People Like To Sky Dive?

   Because it scares the bejabbers out of the dog

   Your mileage may vary ....

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/14/2003 2:51:47 PM ET by Bob Walker

1. 
   CloudHidden | Sep 14, 2003 10:35pm | #2

   I'm seeing my front porch as a perfect application for this. I don't want gutters, and all I need to do is spray the rain down the mountain on the rock wall. No foundation there. If I didn't have this situation, and the 2' drop from the drip edge to the RH, I might be hesitant to try it.

2. 
   andybuildz | Sep 15, 2003 12:46am | #3

   Bob,

         Couldnt agree more..I totally don't get that product other than uses like Cloud has.

   Seems all it does is not create a narrow ditch.

   That rain gutter hood thing looks interesting but I wonder how long before the lil' leaves get in and the hassle to get the hood off.

   Then theres that new product where you can tilt your gutters over to empty them out..yeh sure.if yer up on a ladder then empty the suckers.

   Then theres the ol' screening...hate those things....the lil buggers get caught in the gutters and what a hassle to get the screen off.

   I'm not even a big fan of those wire cones that go into the downspouts in the ends of the gutter..

   They clog up real fast .....and tell me if the HO is gonna go up there and pull and clean em' along with the years worth of junk thats sitting 15' back in the gutter thats packed solid and turned to compost..

   Simply clean the suckers out..its as important as changing your car oil.

   Be in the gutter

                         andy The way we regard death is critical to the way we experiance life.

   When your fear of death changes, the way you live your life changes.

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

1. 
   CloudHidden | Sep 15, 2003 12:54am | #4

   >Be in the gutter

   Another reason to "be round." What's a gutter? :)

1. 
   andybuildz | Sep 15, 2003 01:11am | #5

   <<<Another reason to "be round." What's a gutter? :)>>>>

   Interesting thought....I actually never thought about what domes do about water since they are one sort of giant umbrella leading all the water to the base.....the drainage system must be pretty interesting.....wanna clue us in?

   Moats wouldnt be a bad idea.

   Be in a well

                   andy

    The way we regard death is critical to the way we experiance life.

   When your fear of death changes, the way you live your life changes.

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

1. 
   CloudHidden | Sep 15, 2003 02:04am | #6

   French drain to daylight. We typically don't have basements. And water rolling down the dome is not the same problem as water free-falling from a roof 8'-20' up, so no splashing. Slope dirt away and no problem.

2. 
   andybuildz | Sep 15, 2003 02:56am | #7

   what kind of pipe do you use?

   Perforated ridgid?

   andy The way we regard death is critical to the way we experiance life.

   When your fear of death changes, the way you live your life changes.

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

3. 
   rjw | Sep 15, 2003 03:51am | #8

   I meant to address this to CH ...

   >French drain to daylight.

   Can you give us a bit more description?  Foundatiuon type; relationship of foundation/footer to drain; type of drain tile; fill; etc?

   _______________________

   Why Don't Blind People Like To Sky Dive?

   Because it scares the bejabbers out of the dog

   Your mileage may vary ....

   Edited 9/14/2003 8:51:42 PM ET by Bob Walker

4. 
   CloudHidden | Sep 15, 2003 07:47am | #9

   The details are spelled out by the engineer on each project for the soil type, etc. I'll have to pull out a file when I get the chance and look at what was specified.

5. 
   CloudHidden | Sep 18, 2003 04:16pm | #13

   >Can you give us a bit more description?  Foundatiuon type; relationship of foundation/footer to drain; type of drain tile; fill; etc?

   Checked with the engineer. Most don't require any drains. The water tends to come off the surface equally in all directions and therefore doesn't have any points of concentration as with flat roofs and gutters. The engineer considers the surface area, potential volume of water, percolation of soil, etc and makes a recommendation. If it's necessary, as in a recent one on expansive clay, the details are drawn and whatever he deems necessary is specified. But again, most of the time it's not necessary at all.

   The typical footer is just 1' wide and depth as required for frost line. A section of the footer would be a rectangle. Foam sets on top of outer 4", which puts the shotcrete right in the middle of the footer. If the ratio of dome surface:perimeter is particularly high (mine) or the soil is insufficient (maybe, <2000psf) may need to go wider on the footer, and then it'll take a T shape--shotcrete will always be centered. Quick calcs on a typical dome (50' hemisphere) show weight of 300,000# to 350,000# evenly distributed on 155 sf of footer for roughly 2000psf soil requirement.

2. 
   WayneL5 | Sep 15, 2003 03:07pm | #10

   I'm curious about the product, too.  Does anyone have an answer to the question?

1. 
   RonRappel | Sep 15, 2003 05:24pm | #11

   I'm very happy with the Rainhandler system. My house is a split with a fairly low pitched roof (I'm just outside of Boston), and I find the system works just as advertised. Very simple to put up. In my case, the eaves of the house are fairly wide so the water is carried far enough away from the foundation not to cause a problem. If that isn't the case with your intended application, you may want to look into other options. And concerning debis landing on the panels, I find the vast majority of leaves just fall through the louvers; once in a while I have one that get's stuck there; you can either let it rot away on it's own, or if you're really picky (I unfortunately fall into that camp... ) you can climb a ladder and pull it down or possibly spray it with the hose from the ground (I take any remaining leaves down just before the first snowfall).

   My 2 cents,

   Ron

1. 
   AXE | Sep 15, 2003 06:23pm | #12

   One fine October day, I cleaned my gutters at 1000HRS and we had big rain storm at 1500HRS.  The old open top gutters were clogged in just 5 hours!  I knew it was time to get new gutters.

   I've had these on my house for 2 years:

   http://www.leafguardasheville.com/leafguard.html

   These things do a pretty good job.  Only issue is that they are rolled with the same size roll that open top gutters are rolled with, but they have the hood molded too.  So you end up with less carrying capicity.  They overflow at a corner in very heavy rain (3"+/hr).  Because of the length of my house, they pitched part of the gutter towards a corner, where the water is supposed to make the bend and then go down a short leg to a droppipe.  Well it doesn't work that way guys.  But have never had so much as a leaf in the gutter since I got them.  Been over two years now.  Paid about $12/foot (reusing some drop pipes from my old gutters - they require 3"x4" pipes).  However, my Mom got a quote for her house from another Leafgaurd guy and it was $25/ft.  So either he didn't want the job or he's an idiot.

1. 
   seeyou | Sep 18, 2003 09:49pm | #16

   Those things stay frozen all winter 'round here. I've seen some mighty pretty ice stalagtites and stalagmites coming off them.

1. 
   AXE | Sep 18, 2003 09:55pm | #17

   I don't see why they would freeze up any more than normal gutters, but I don't really have the problem since I live in NC (we have other problems that are rather apparent at this time).

2. 
   seeyou | Sep 19, 2003 12:01am | #18

   The capacity is diminished as you noted. The water dwells in them longer. They are shaded by the hood, so water melted by the sun on the roof in sub-freezing temps, refreezes in the gutter. The outlets tend to be small in 'em also. I liked the concept when I first saw it, so I watched their installations closely and massive ice sicles is what I've seen for numerous winters.

   Anyway, batten down the hatches and good luck to you. Hope you're not right on the coast.

3. 
   deadmanmike | Sep 18, 2003 05:55pm | #14

   Some friends have had Rainhandlers for 7-8 years and love 'em. IMO of course it's better to just move the water away from the house with gutters, pipes, etc., but if the grade and drainage are setup properly....

   Mike

1. 
   WayneL5 | Sep 18, 2003 06:23pm | #15

   Do ice and snow build up on them as with gutters?

   I have a section of house where the second story roof drips onto a porch roof.  Over time it will wear the shingles there.  I can't use gutters because of the winter climate so I was always wondering if Rainhandler installed on the upper roof in that area would be just the thing I need to extend the life of the porch roof.  But, if ice and snow build up they would be no better than gutters.

1. 
   deadmanmike | Sep 19, 2003 07:15pm | #19

   I'm sure they'll freeze like gutters would, but I suspect they'd de-ice faster. Once a gutter freezes up you've got a 3"-4" diameter ice cylinder to melt off, and I can't see a Rainhandler setup building up that much mass.

   I might see my friend tonite at a gig, I'll ask him.

   Mike 

1. 
   NormKerr | Sep 19, 2003 07:34pm | #20

   I live in an old house (rubble stone foundation) and need to keep the water well away, so never considered the rain handler option.

   Due to massive, overhanging, mature trees, I had MAJOR gutter cleaning issues for the first four years in the house. Then I installed Gutter Topper (pretty much like the Leaf Guard product that another mentioned.

   I have never had a leaf go in the gutter, or if any ever did, they were also small enough to be rinsed away in the next rain. After two years with them I've checked a few times and inside is just as clean as the day they were installed. The gutter water flow volume is not reduced at all (the guard goes on top).

   The only complaint that I have with them, and its a small one, is that if a stick or leaf gets caught on the edge, it will tend to channel water at that point until it rots away (or I climb up and get it, I guess). Anyway, when that has happened, I only noticed it because the grass was not established at that point and a small divot was visible in the dirt below. In each case the offending leaf/stick quickly disappeared without anything required of me.

   On houses with a perfect basement/water handling system the Rain Handler should be ok, but any break-down of your exterior basement wall waterproofing would be exposed to the full volume of your roof's drain area (the water slowly percolate thru the soil).

   Probably, this is not an issue for many people, but each needs to make up their own mind I guess.

   Norm

1. 
   deadmanmike | Sep 19, 2003 11:07pm | #21

   I'll keep them in mind for my own house, as foundation drainage is non-existant and I took the mesh down 6 months after I put it up.

   I'm with ya on Rainhandler use being dependant on excellent drainage/grading, etc.  I said as much in 34677.15, but not as well as you. It might be safe to say that if you've got no gutters and no drainage problems now, they'd be fine. Same water volume in roughly the same place with no ditches.

   I'm gonna take a hard look at the gutter toppers. Next year I might be redoing the roof, and that'll be the time to do it.

   Mike