Quoting this tonight for a nature trail at the nearby college – two big jobs are hanging up temporarily for client health issues. Might get signed and start Mon-Tues.
I believe I will fabricate the entire thing on blocks in the yard (with temporary tension cables underneath), and have a boom truck pick it up and flatbed it ~1/2 mile to the site, and drop it on the footings.
If we pick it up near the center (once in position), it will droop at the ends, and we can shim the pier mounts to pre-load the bridge.
Forrest
Replies
Cool! Looking forward to seeing the pics.
Thanks. There are two bridges on the trail (within a half-mile or so) already, boring and square. I was asked specifically to submit a design, so I went and looked for something fun. Found this guy's site, with a lot of cool pictures of built examples.
http://pacifi.ca/index.html
I'm intrigued with the structural concept. Most look like this, though, which I think is clunky. I wanted to accentuate the "archness".
View Image
Interestingly, the only curved wood in my design is the Trex decking and the Trek handrail top, but it appears like I've spent a lot of time bending members.
My bridge would go here - needs some landscaping afterwards!View Image
Forrest
Edited 10/13/2007 8:52 am by McDesign
We thought you had a day job. A suit.
I love bridges. How about some Calatrava flavoring?
View Image
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
next time i'll do the suspension thing.
thats gotta be good for the ego a year and half later ! :)
looks good!
think he'll build the next one? or will you step back up to the plate?
If you make the structural beam as a curved glulam, you could forget sagging at the ends.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
<a curved glulam>
It's true, but I'm fascinated at just using 2x4s to span.
Forrest
Sure, thats the easy part. Show me the abuttments.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Huh-huh
Huh-huh.
You said "abutment"
Huh-huh.
Soon!
Forrest
To my eye, it looks like a very uncomfortable bridge to walk across as does the one you are loosely modeling it after. I like the general concept, but to me, it needs more work.
<a very uncomfortable bridge to walk across >
Yeah, but think about high heels - uncomfortable, but they look GOOD.
Somebody has to suffer for art!
Forrest
Ah, well. They barely have the budget for a utilitarian bridge at an hourly wage, it turns out. This project is dead; perhaps they'll find someone to build another bridge like the two sagging, ugly ones they have now.
Nothing I'd want my name on.
Not that I'm bitter!
Forrest
Too bad...looked cool to build. Those who said it looked uncomfortable have likely not been to Venice, Italy. There are many bridges proportioned like the one you showed over the canals in Venice (some have stairs though rather than a steep curved ramp).Your bridge reminds me of this chair:
Hey - good news! This is back on - I found a huge load of 2-yr old reclaimed Trex relatively close by (the largest single cost), and got some donated labor, a large quantity of unused bolts, and a concrete mixer. May happen after all - requoting now.
Forrest
Edited 1/15/2008 12:39 pm by McDesign
Got the Trex yesterday - a HEAVY pile. It had been pulled off by a pro deck-builder on a job to put on Ipe. 3000 pounds; such a sweet deal from Craig's list.
Had to borrow a 10' trailer, for (55) 16' & 12' boards - even with all the 6' and 8' shorts and (15) 4x4 posts, and the (7) assembled balustrade sections all up front, I couldn't get enough tongue weight for safe towing.
So, I spent 3 hours in the dark, in the rain, driving 30-35 mph, what had taken a bit more than an hour on the way up - no joke, trailer would whip dangerously at exactly 42 mph.
I even had 13 miles of I-85 south from Commerce, that I spent all in the emergency lane, going buzzzzzzzzzzz on the rumble grooves.
Once I got back to country roads, I had to pull off as often as I could to let the long line of headlights pass me.
Was proud of my fellow Americans - nobody honked or gave me the finger.
Had a BIG drink when I finally got home.
Forrest - glad that's over
Edited 1/22/2008 7:08 am by McDesign
That was you???????
It's hard to see the finger when it's pitch black and you've got a death grip on the wheel!!
LOL!
Unloaded and stacked it all today, 99.5% perfect - all had been attached from underneath. Just now for grins, checked pricing for new stuff. For the 1100' of 5/4x6, (130) 2x2 balusters, (14) 4x4 posts and caps, and (7) 6' sections of designer top/bottom rail, my local Lowe's wants about $3600 and change.
I paid $500 (and a really slow drive).
Forrest - feelin' pleased with myself
You should post this in the "what bargain did you find today" thread
Forrest,
Good find! It's really satisfying to get some good re-cycled materials at a cheap price and reuse them in another location.
I remember the braces you bought and refurbished- giving them a new life.
Was any tp needed on that drive?? I've hauled several loads like that where some probably should have been removed- but stubborness prevailed.
Walter
Got finished making the balustrade bits. I'm a big fan of doing as much jig-based piece-making in the shop as possible. I hope to be able to premake and pre-drill everything but the decking boards.
I'll have every screw hole made so that the bridge will only assemble one way - and be pretty much self-aligning to my CAD drawing.
Here are my simple drilling jigs - they slip around the end of a 5/4X6 or a square baluster -View Image
Here are the (68) posts; (64) balusters, and (32) sections of bottom rail - you can see the large holes for the 1/2" bolts; two of the 5/4X6 posts will sandwich each end of the 2x8 purlins. Small hole trios are for the bottom rail sections -View Image
Here the balusters are, pre-drilled with two screws for the bottom to prevent twisting (so close to the edge, they had to be drilled); I'll just use one screw at the top rail (those ragged center holes on this end were from their previous life) -View Image
Here are the bottom rail sections; one's turned over to show how the screws will come up through it into the balusters -View Image
Here's a mockup of one section of the balustrade; basically I'll have (32) identical ones of these -View Image
Here's my test piece of the top rail; trying to find out how much the top surface grows in a bend. I wasn't sure what combination of the bottom surface shrinking and the top surface growing would occur - so far it seems all top growth.View Image
More of my Trex score -View Image
Forrest - warm and dry in the shop today
Edited 1/22/2008 4:26 pm by McDesign
Final redraw with exact material thicknesses - it's got the lightness and whimsey I wanted -
View Image
Forrest
Edited 1/22/2008 10:21 pm by McDesign
Glad you finally got that date stamp corrected. Was afraid the BT police might be paying you a visit.The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
I want to buy a creek just so i can use your design.
Any views from below? Do the spacers between the overlapping trusses span the width of the walkway?
Thanks! I've just got this section view -View Image
I'll start making the truss pieces today - red and orange and blue and purple are all yella-wood 2x.
Forrest
Edited 1/23/2008 6:21 am by McDesign
Didn't like the handrail detail last night, even with two thicknesses stacked up - the round-under exposed little corners at the top of every 5/4x6 post. Since I had some extra Trex, I ripped a couple pieces 3-3/4" wide, and used that as the first layer, with a regular piece capping all the screws, screwed on from underneath -View Image
The truss is made of (15) of these wanna-be 4x6s bolted together, plus some shorter bits at the end. I don't really like how close the bolts are to the end, but it has to be that way to make the geometry work out - the load is all compression, so it should be okay. The opposite end is a "negative" of this, and they butt together at a ~24º angle -View Image
Forrest
Edited 1/23/2008 6:54 pm by McDesign
Excellent as usual. I gotta ask tho'..would the rail top not be considered as a hand rail ( due to the inclines) and there fore fall under the max graspable width rule of 2.375"?
I mean code is PITA to interpret as it is, but being as it is a publick! area, I think I'd want to Cover my azz on that detail. Esp. now that it snowed..LOL
edit: if I am way off here, feel free to bash me thoughly for even bringing it up.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Edited 1/23/2008 7:33 pm ET by Sphere
No, you're right. I've got a go-ahead from my contact at the college to build this way - if it's a problem, I can always add an inner round rail.
After the lawsuit, I mean.
Forrest - flying in the face of danger - we call it "FITFOD"
That's cool, I knew you had a plan :)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Boy, this is fun - like an Erector set! This was just a check using the first two of the five arches, to make sure it would assemble, in the muddy wreck of the yard.
View Image
Now, I'm really Jones-ing to build the whole thing, or at least the truss, here or in the front yard. Site is only 1/4 mile away; I could drag it on two dollies with a garden tractor - paved walking trail goes to within 20' of the spot.
Only question is, how do I get it across the creek? Boom truck was out of the budget.
Listening to Bernard Cornwell's Stonehenge while I work; if those primitives could do that, why can't the geniuses here figure something out? Assembled weight is somewhere between 2500-4000# - could be more accurate with some figuring. Treated SYP and Trex is HEAVY!
Forrest - waiting for inspiration
Edited 1/24/2008 12:26 pm by McDesign
Steal a few canoes to get the lead end across the crick..air bags? Swiped from a wrecked car?..Aha! put the lead end in the water an trigger the bags , and POOF! it's UP!
Dude, I started a thread in the Tav last week about that planer I am rebuilding, and just to let you know, IT IS DONE!!!! After seeing you rebuilting that Tranny on your bench, you INSPIRED me to have at it...hadda drive all over gods creation to use a bearing press, but by golly, I just now jointed a 2x4 with it..sweeeeeeeeeet as honey.
Ok, back to you..float the bastard on air..it'll fly Orville, jump!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I missed the planer thread - I'll go find it.
Forrest
Tavern " Hey Forrest".
Thanks any how, you did it incognito :)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Sleds, ramp, rope and a come-a-long from the opposite side. Slow and steady.
Like the RomansLiberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
Only question is, how do I get it across the creek? Boom truck was out of the budget.
How deep is the creek? Can you just build a sledge to set the other end on and then drag it across? Either a winch or pulley from a truck or around a tree on the far side?jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
Calling it a creek is a little much. Maybe a deep ditch? Doesn't really rain here anymore.
Here's the far bank as I approach -View Image
Here's looking back at the approach bank and the existing walking trailView Image
The pipe really does ruin the view; I'll try to minimize it
Forrest
Edited 1/24/2008 7:25 pm by McDesign
Looks like it might be a bit sloppy for a sledge (to drag through the creek). Just how heavy do you estimate it is going to be? When you first mentioned transporting it down the road, I had pictured something like furniture dollies except with bicycle wheels, but maybe you're getting too heavy for bike wheels?
Getting it across, I think I'd be heading towards the direction of using 2 or 3 or so beams (poles, or whatever). Stick them across the gap about like that pipe that's there now. Then just slide the bridge across the beams. When I was moving a 3-step pre-cast concrete stairs last summer, I just used some 2x4's on the ground with a bit of sand on them. The concrete slid right over it.
And then add Hackinatit's suggestion. Get your beams/poles spanning the creek and then use a come-along or a series of pullies off of the far trees to pull it across. All that "work smarter, not harder" stuff we've come to expect from you (along with your creativity).
Think SAFETY first. And if becomes too big a hassle, just construct it at home and then take it apart and re-assemble at the creek. Or partially dis-assemble and move it that way. Or even if you move it to the site as a whole but have to partially disassemble it to get across the creek. It's all good.jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
"I don't really like how close the bolts are to the end,"
I don't either.
I know its a bit late, but I was hoping you would glue and through bolt some treated plywood gussets as in the picture, below.
I'd be happier with steel, or even 3/8 aluminum, through bolted, but I think the plywood would suffice, and be more within the budget.
View Image
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
<treated plywood gussets >
Thanks for thge sketch - I've talked to the engineer in BC who designed the cuts in the 2x4s, and have made my peace with it - the bolts just provide alignment clamping - the 2x4 members come together in pure compression, and he says those top bolts can even be removed after the truss is assembled without affecting his strength testing.
Got all the posts and spreaders installed today - exactly (100) pieces, (192) deck screws, and (136) 1/2" bolts and nuts. All pre-cut and pre-drilled; never picked up a saw or drill today!
Still no curved members -
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
Forrest
Edited 1/28/2008 6:52 pm by McDesign
Forrest ,
Thats a sweet looking project you've got going there !!
When is moving day?
Walter
We haven't built the piers yet, so I imagine middle of next week. Dad and I have to build the "cart" and hitch assembly this weekend, and then set up a temporary board "road" over the dirt and the creek.
I may be able to finish the balustrade and deck tomorrow, but then I've got a design and bid to do.
Lots of joggers by from the college today; they're glad they won't have to walk the log anymore!
Forrest
All pre-drilled balusters on this AM - pretty much as fast as I could pick them up. I gotta' reiterate, shop-building and/or pre-fabbing the parts for anything with jigs is THE way to go.
Now am re-thinking the balustrade "splay". My plan was to have the balusters splay radially, but the paired 5/4x6 posts parallel to each other, and each pair arranged radially
View Image
Now I'm wondering if it might be more interesting to splay the posts as well; making the top spacing of baluster to post as well as baluster-to-baluster equal where they attach to the top rail.
Forrest - drawing
Edited 1/29/2008 8:41 am by McDesign
Help me!
Okay - splay on the left; parallel posts on the right.
View Image
I need some opinions - I'm stumped.
Forrest - undecided
Edited 1/29/2008 9:46 am by McDesign
I like the right side (parallel), but I'm a "straight line" personality.Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
SPLAY !!
They both look good, but I might like the splay better.
jt8
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals." -- Sydney Smith
No splay!
I like SPLAYED better
Do we have a projection yet as to the winner? Do the exit polls give us any hint?
Splay , at 0730 AM the 30th
Oh, shoot..wrong Idea..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Hey Forrest, been trying to email you and keeps getting returned. What's up?The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
mccanlessdesign at bellsouth dot net - maybe the old one's still in there?
Forrest
Leveled the ends, then added temp. supports and lifted some low spots, so all the joists were level before I started decking.
View Image
Got most of it laid; got pulled off a few hours today for a neighbor's emergency job.
View Image
Forrest
Edited 1/29/2008 7:44 pm ET by McDesign
looking good, ya'' figgered'' out how ya gonna set it in place yet?
dug
uhhhhhh
yeah?
Forrest - thinking hard
You going to do a wet deck test on it? Maybe have someone simulate being a jogger and see if it gets slippery?
Looks pretty dog gone neat to me. Can't wait to see the transport shots and the final pics.jt8
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals." -- Sydney Smith
Our trex gets very slick when wet, so the wet deck test is a good idea.
The low parts will DEFINITELY get routed grooves or cleats for grip; the back-up plan is to add 2x2s, 2x4s, and 2x6s under the lowest three joists on either side to shallow out the pitch.
Forrest
Whoooeee, that top rail was tough! No stable references, variable Trex thickness, trying not to accumulate error - finally did this. Took a reference straight-line measurement of one side of each group from the middle, pinned them, then made a "comb" to align the other three members in each group relative to the measured one.
View Image
Thanks for all the votes and personal e-mails and calls; I went with parallel posts -
View Image
Top rail is two 3-3/4" strips, covered by a 5-1/2" strip screwed from underneath -
View Image
Dad, my engineer in charge of moving the thing, has the flu. He got his first prescription medicine in his adult life today - guess it's serious. may have to delay the move!
Forrest
Edited 1/30/2008 6:44 pm ET by McDesign
He got his first prescription medicine in his adult life today -
Glad he finally wised up. You never know what you're getting for sure buying stuff on the street.
Hope he recovers quickly. The bridge looks great, but I've been really looking forward to seeing the installation pics.http://grantlogan.net/
"Because I really want to live in a country where the poor people are fat. "- Unidentified Indian Immigrant when asked why he wants to come to America
Forrest,
Thats the sweetest looking project I've seen on BT for a l o n g time !!!
Walter
i came in late... but i like the parallel posts tooMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
splay, def.... much more interesting.
Well, thanks a lot! I had it nearly built in my head and now i have to tear it all back down to the abutments! (I thought the trusses were on either side of the walkway.)
I'm on it...
I am crossing my fingers that the center spine will work. I've doubled up the amount of 2x as opposed to twin arches (one 15-thickness truss vs two 4-thickness trusses), to try to get the bridge to "float"
Also, the deck running lengthwise around the curve will act as a significant stiffener.
Talking about building it in your head, I always do build things like this on-screen first, to make sure any goofies show up before I actually cut any material =View Image
Forrest
Edited 1/24/2008 6:56 am by McDesign
What kind of slickness factor do you think the decking will have when it's wet? Especially at the lower sides where it's the steepest?
I don't THINK it will be slippery, based on some un-scientific tests. If it is, I'll route transverse grooves in the deck at the ends.
Forrest
Forrest,How about you put a pole under the lead end of the bridge and kind of pole vault it over the creek. Just pull from the far side and let the lead end of the bridge go up in the air. You would have to keep the bridge from going side to side but once it got to half way point it is all down hill. Your pole would go in the middle of the creek bed. Just my two cents worth.good luck and have fun...danEdited 1/24/2008 10:15 pm ET by drapson
Edited 1/24/2008 10:16 pm ET by drapson
I'm considering this on the steep parts, in SS or aluminum - shouldn't really be obtrusive
View Image
Forrest - slip-sliding away
Wow! Thing on the bridge!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I'd go with the SS. I think the AL will be too soft & flexible for the traction it'll need to provide and you won't have to worry about corrosion issues, dissimilar metals or environmental.
What're you thinking for attachment?
BTW, good idea. Not sure I would've thought of it.
Edited 1/31/2008 8:37 am ET by john7g
Much better idea that any grooves I can imagine you machining in the Trex. Gonna be awful hard on the knees for anybody that goes down though.
OUCH!!!The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
Nice Projest!Can you post a sign: "Cross at your own risk when wet"? LOLKerfs would just fill with mud. The expanded metal might be just as problematicHow 'bout a 3M prodect like they use in stairwells or on boats?. It comes in a roll in many widthsChuck Slive, work, build, ...better with woodEdited 1/31/2008 11:01 am ET by stevent1
Edited 2/4/2008 8:21 am ET by stevent1
Thanks - Bridge is essentially finished now; just surreal propped by the road all alone, waiting for moving day.
View Image
It does have a torsional harmonic I DON'T like. because the deck is not stiff in twisting (like Galloping Gertie, the old Tacoma Narrows bridge that blew apart) - hell for strong on center vertical load, but can twist and sway if you go by the rail and jump up and down.
It's emphasized by the fact it's sitting on turf instead of bolted to concrete!
No problem; I'll add a row of tight-fitting quash blocks between the outer ends of the 2x8s before we move it, to form an arch stiffener on either side under the deck.
Forrest - cleaning up the mess
Edited 1/31/2008 4:20 pm ET by McDesign
"Just head on down this road until you get to the church with a bridge...then turn right and go another 2 miles..."
Hope you don't have any bored, rednecks around there. I could see Billy Bob and Jo Bob hooking up a chain to it and dragging it behind their truck for a couple miles (dang rednecks!).
:)jt8
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals." -- Sydney Smith
Had a thought about the traction issue. Possible to countersink and then drill smaller holes thru the Trex so as to both allow drainage and give traction/ Don't know that it would work , just thinking.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Great looking design and looks very well executed. I'm still concerned about how comfortable (safe) it is to walk or run on.
Interesting that the traction issue is getting a lot of interest now that it is built.
<Interesting that the traction issue is getting a lot of interest now that it is built>
Oh yeah - ready, fire, aim! Who's idea was this anyway?
Hell, somebody's gotta' suffer for art.
Kids are happy running up and down it, but just trying to cover all the bases.
Forrest
I gotta admit. It really does look great.
That is one Nice looking project.
Now the question is Where are the shopping carts? It is for races for the kids right?
FatRoman suggested that maybe you could get these guys to help move the bridge:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=76592.947
jt8
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals." -- Sydney Smith
surreal it is / quite a picture w/ the church in the backgroundaddressing the slippin & slidin on deck
I've built many a dock w/ ramp and my favorite method of cleats to prevent slippage was the application of material perpendicular to your arcing deck material
just about all the decking in those days was pressure treated so what I used were the "stickers" that separated each level of boards - must have been stacked that way through the treating process too cuz they were treated through & through / app 3/16" X 1/2" X 36"
I would think some strips like that applied maybe 6" on center
little SS or copper ringshank nails
in most other countries it would just be there / here you'll need at least a speed limit sign if not an attorney on each end to sign off
Really cool project Forrest. I hope your Dad is feeling better. I can't wait to see it moved.
I give another vote for cleats. 1/2" high or less. I think the expanded mesh might not be too purty.
Best wishes.[email protected]
meant to say those cleats in your situation would be ripped out of trexI've never used trex in my life so have no idea if it is rigid enough to be ripped like that??
We all loved the Amish idea. College pointed out that they had access to lots of students . . .
Here it is with the "squash blocks" I drove in between the joists - it really stiffened up the twisting moment, and transferred the movement to the corners, where it will be easily resisted by the abutments. Looks more "arch-y", too.
View Image
Forrest
Edited 2/3/2008 6:12 pm ET by McDesign
Hey, how's your dad feeling?http://grantlogan.net/
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete (I am so in love with myself) Draganic
Gonna pull the trigger on Monday, or is Dad still under the weather. Hmm.. my Ma has been under the weather for about the same time period. Wonder if they've been hanging out together?!
The college student thing isn't all that bad of an idea. They would probably find it an amusing thing to do and would be happy if there was a cooler of beer waiting for them at the end of the job.
jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
Beer ?I can help, too ! !
It's only about 180 miles from me.Greg
Not today. Still have to get the foundations in; rain has made it mud on the banks. dad is mostly better; has sent me 20+ e-mails and 8 pages of sketches with his moving and placement ideas - I've got (8) 6" casters (600#); he thinks 8" will be better (1000#), so he's borrowed some from his old plant.
Forrest
"has sent me 20+ e-mails and 8 pages of sketches"
Apple didn't fall far, eh? Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
Or peach
Update. Got the college to move the bridge location ~75' down the creek to a prettier location, away from the sewer line.
Found that the concrete co WOULD deliver a short load; went down today through a different (dirt road) route, and he says they could get within a hundred feet.
3 yards + a Georgia buggy is essentially the same cost as 150 bags of Sakrete and a borrowed mixer, and a HELL of a lot easier.
Also chanced into a free telehandler maybe for a few hours. Haven't seen it yet; guy says 36' boom, 4' forks, 6000# rated. Might be able to just pick it up crosswise, and drive to the site, and get it really close, or maybe even over.
Anybody have any thoughts on that?
Forrest - staying out of the rain today
Have you finished the cake yet ?
How many tries to extinguish that blaze on top ?
Got one more key lime pie here for lunch (the third one).
DW set up four big "decade" candles, and five "integer" candles (kids doing math now). Got 'em all out with one shot.
Forrest - wasn't sure if I could say B L O W
Thats why I said extinguish !!
Hot air balloon? Float it into place? :)Just wanted to say it looks great, amazing work!
The telehandler is going to shake and rattle that bridge a LOT with every little tiny bump it hits.And the pressure, wrackng, etc, will occur in dimensions that the bridge is not built for.I would get it as clsoe as possible before picking it up with the telehandler.
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
The telehandler is going to shake and rattle that bridge a LOT with every little tiny bump it hits.
Can't imagine the telehandler would shake it any more than if they made their custom dollies and wheeled it to the location. And the telehandler would be a WHOLE lot less work.jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
Have you ever watched a load on a forklift when the forklift was on a rough surface ?There is a big difference between the stresses that bridge is going to take, on the telehandler, compared to what it will take, being wheeled down the same road on 8 inch wheels.It's like the difference between rolling a ball over a rough surface, and bouncing that same ball, instead.The bridge will be hanging from the forks, by it's middle. The bridge is made to withstand being pushed down on, in the middle, not being hammered up on, in the middle...The stress it will go through being pushed along on those casters will be bad enough, yes. But it will be nothing at all like being tossed in the air, and caught by the middle, with every little bump in the road.
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
Yeah, maybe a free telehandler's not such a good idea.
Another option came up today - friend's got a rollback - might even work to put it in place? He says he can get to the area, if we put some boards across the concrete footpath.
Forrest
Got the abutment forms built today. Basically 24 x 27 x 8'. Just over 29 cubic feet each, exclusive of deadmen and the holes I'll dig down under them. I'll get 3 yds of 2500 psi, a tomato cage of 6" WWF horizontally in each, and some #4 rebar in the posts and deadmen.
The top will be flush with the ground, and act as a flat apron adjoining the bridge -
View Image
Got half-price AdvanTech 'cuz it was dirty and had boogered corners -View Image
Forrest
Edited 2/6/2008 7:52 pm ET by McDesign
Edited 2/6/2008 7:54 pm ET by McDesign
Got the forms dug in and aligned today, and our wheelbarrow road for the concrete for the far form.
Here's our "working" bridge this morning -
View Image
Near form dug in flush with the ground. It's 24" deep, and has two 12" diameter legs that go down another 2'. Still will add deadmen in tomorrow -
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This is our safer bridge for wheelbarrows. Just one section of short scaffolding on adustable feet on the hard sandy creek bottom, and eight walk-boards. Rebar pins each one to the ground
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I'll be able to get a concrete truck to just out of the picture at the right, where you can see the green nose of my truck. Georgia buggy to the near (right side) form; wheelbarrow across the yard and a half for the far form on the left. Guy on the bridge is my contact at the college; part of the deal was that he donated 30 hours to the project. his DW and dogs to the right
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Forrest
Edited 2/7/2008 5:25 pm ET by McDesign
I was wondering why it needs to be lagged back to the bank...isn't that the direction of the force, anyway? <cornfused>And...you have hopefully made arrangements with the media to record your moving day..?
Looks good so far.
Faithfully tuned in.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Fun job to watch Forest. Engineered art...........
On a hill by the harbour
< why it needs to be lagged back to the bank>
Only a concern about the bank getting undercut - the legs reaching back (and down below the abutments) might keep it positioned until the bank could be repaired.
Sort of like ~$75 worth of insurance.
The new location of the bridge is in a straight, narrow part of the creek and hopefully it won't "oxbow" over the years
Moving day will be well recorded. Still trying to decide which of the myriad ways to move it is the best way.
If I can set up concrete tomorrow afternoon, we'll do it.
Forrest
Strikes me that a telehandler and some slings straps would an easy solution. Temporary up something to anchor the straps at the ends of the bridge and lift it. I am no rigger but I have handled loads like that.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
That's kind of what I was thinking, lift at the regular bearing points but a sling with a spreader would be required otherwise the angle of the straps to the forks would probably crush the bridge in compression unless there were some verrrrrry long straps and a high enough lift on the handler.
I was just thinking the same thing as I read this post, but you beat me to it.Although, I was thinking chains, not straps. If they're strong enough, straps would be better. :-)Ott
Concrete placed today - four hours late from the plant, but what the hey. Had some free college-student help. Kind of interesting. These are wealthy, liberal arts kids; willing, but easily distracted and definitely not "git er done". One kept profilin' in front of DW! Giggled her to no end; 42 to his 18. Had to keep pushing to keep our ramp clear of dawdlers.
Told Mr. Concrete man NOT to go over the walk. Amazingly, he got back up the hill - tore some big ruts, though - then it was tough for me to get out. What do they call Georgia buggies other places? DW took some pix of ME for once, <edit> but wants me to point out that she WAS screeding and finishing and shoveling and hoeing!
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Here's a shot of the deadman layout on the near side. Each 2' deep abutment has two 12" diameter legs down another 2', remember? Then, these trenches tie to the vertical bar in them, and carry two runs of #4 to their ends, where there is a 40" deep by ~14" diameter "anchor" with four 4' lengths of #4 to help if the abutment ever gets undercut -View Image
Concrete still hasn't tightened up enough to steel; I think I'll be over there about 11 tonight to clean up the top plane, which is the apron before the bridge.Forrest - celebrating with Fosters and Doritos
Edited 2/8/2008 8:12 pm ET by McDesign
Edited 2/8/2008 8:18 pm ET by McDesign
Tennessee buggies have one tire and don't use gasoline.
You boys in 'lanta too high n mighty with all those gizmos.
Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
Edited 2/8/2008 8:12 pm by Hackinatit
Good setting for before the daddy-daughter dance -View Image
Forrest
Edited 2/10/2008 9:02 am ET by McDesign
We called 'em georgia buggies in Dallas back in the early 80's."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Good work today. Continuing with the theme of "minimizing material costs", I came up with this carriage, just out of stuff I had. More welding practice.
Dad and I just got the bridge lifted and the carriage bolted under it tonight. Carriage will support one end, the "back" end, while the front is just dragged up the ramp truck. When the ramp slides back to the wheels on the carriage, they'll just roll onto the bed. This way, the 24' bridge will fit on a 19' truck - with its hind end sticking out and angled up in the air. Holding it this way really relieved a lot of tension on the cable - from a frightening "Thrummmmmmm" to flabby nothing.
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When we get to the site, we can extend the truck bed all the way back almost across the creek, and angle it to just set the back end on the far abutment - the wheels will just dangle over the creek.
Then we'll tie that end down, and the truck will slowly pull away, setting the near end down - maybe some jacking there to set it softly.
Should be tomorrow AM - cross your fingers!
<edit> There will be diagonal bracing added tomorrow, from the 6x6 up to the bridge
Forrest
Edited 2/11/2008 8:19 pm ET by McDesign
Meant to attach the overview -
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Forrest
Edited 2/11/2008 8:15 pm ET by McDesign
Good luck. Be safe.
jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
Whoo hoo!
Lots of pix to post - gotta eat first!
Forrest - relieved boy
You done eating yet?http://grantlogan.net/
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete (I am so in love with myself) Draganic
How 'bout now?http://grantlogan.net/
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete (I am so in love with myself) Draganic
Okay - here was prep this AM, as I paced and wrung my hands - threatening to rain us out -
Ready to rock -View Image
2X bracing added on carriage for side-to-side stiffness - cleats are so the roll back deck can be shoved under the bridge without it rolling back -View Image
Lifted a few boards on each end to get straps around the "spine" - this was for lifting - we went behind the joist for pulling up the ramp.View Image
Site with angled thrust faces of the forms stripped -View Image
Forrest
Edited 2/12/2008 6:36 pm ET by McDesign
Scary part starts now!
Wrecker guy was great - he would wave his hand like that, and the bridge would lift -View Image
First hurdle - front end is one the truck -View Image
Going up; deck moving back -View Image
Bridge hasn't moved yet, just pivoted on the casters - now that the deck is against it, I remove the front cleat from in front of the casters -View Image
Second hurdle crossed - we are on the truck!View Image
Forrest
Edited 2/12/2008 6:45 pm ET by McDesign
Okay - on site now. Neighbor has the road pictures, I'll get that disk later.View Image
Like he listens to me -View Image
"I'm just gonna' lie here, and I'll tell you when it's close, okay?"View Image
After the far side was butted into its rest, he then angled the bed up a bit to raise the casters off the ground, and I was able to take the carriage off. I then carefully threaded the carriage out from under the cable and dropped it in the creek - not all the way, at least -View Image
Next, he carefully pulled the bed forward, and gently dropped the near end of the bridge against its abutment. Notice it's not all the way down.View Image
Wrecker guy was finished; kind of excited to be able to say he'd now moved a bridge. Only $75 for about an hour of work.
Ate a celebratory lunch at the pizza buffet, then hooked my big conduit bender over the tension cable underneath, with the big cheater I'm carrying, and twisted an "S" in the cable to pull the ends together; dad whammed this end down with the big hammer. I could actually see the bridge arch up!
That done, the cable simply hung limp, with all the spreading load taken by the abutments, so I just clipped it off.
Forrest
Edited 2/12/2008 7:06 pm ET by McDesign
Forrest,
Any and every hat I've ever worn is off to you. That is truly a masterful piece of planning, engineering and building.
I really appreciate ingenuity and improvisation so the installation job you did today has me slack jawed and shakin' my head.
Thanks for posting it all here.
With Great Respect, Peter
I'll second the motion !!!
He's gonna have lots of hats taken off in his honor..mine as well!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Thanks a million - I'm relieved no surprises popped up.
Here's this evening - all the privit cutting has left a pretty un-attractive area, but with the plantings they plan, it should be nice.View Image
The cutting has exposed some great wild grape vines, though -View Image
Here's the much-abused hill that a concrete truck and a rollback truck made it down and back up -View Image
The far side, where the college is exposing an old road to use as the new path -View Image
Oh yeah - here's the old bridge -View Image
Forrest
Edited 2/12/2008 7:46 pm ET by McDesign
And, while all this was happening, DW didn't hear her phone, when the school called to come pick up the boy. He just got to stay at school a little longer, and is okay - he told me to "post it on BreakTime!"
Landed on a big rock on a decorative "natural stone play structure" - whose great idea was that?
Dr. lady said the eyeball and occipital bone was fine.
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Forrest - gonna' go to sleep now
Edited 2/12/2008 7:54 pm ET by McDesign
Nicely done, sir. The rollback was the correct tool.http://grantlogan.net/
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete (I am so in love with myself) Draganic
The boy has your eyes
and the in ten city
You done good all around Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
Ow! If memory serves, that's gonna be a shiner to remember...startin' in the AM.
Glad to hear it's minor damage.
The latest bridge photos give a good indication of how many great perspectives there are to this project. I imagine that you'll enjoy looking at it and taking photos for years to come. I know I would.
Edited 2/12/2008 9:09 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Garlands and laurels for the conquering [super]hero!!!!!
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So...what's next?? ;^) ~Splinter McJunkie
Well done, Forrest. I'm amazed. This would have taken me two years ! !Greg
you can sure have my hat too
Simply amazing. I never would have thought to use the rollback truck in that way. I've said it before, but will say it again, "wish you lived a bit closer." Don't know what you're rates are, but I'm sure I could think of a couple jobs.
We will expect additional pics once everything greens up.
jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
Edited 2/13/2008 11:42 am by JohnT8
A stunning accomplishment! I am truly in awe.
Kudos. Great work Forrest!The school needs to make a plaque for it.Chuck slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Let's just bronze him.
Another hat being removed. I am not worthy, but I truly enjoy reading your posts. As an aero designer you put me to shame with your projects, imagination for solving the brain busters and amazing craftsmanship. The tow truck was a brilliant solution, executed perfectly. I can't wait for the next project.
Living vicariously thru McDesign
Experienced, but still dangerous!
Guys, thanks so much for the positive comments - I think it helps me push the extra mile sometimes, when I know everyone will be looking at it and pointing out the things that are wrong .
I've been lucky lately, having some interesting projects, and you know I love talking about them!
I'll try to keep up.
Forrest - quoting today on the next one
You forgot to sand the ends.......
On a hill by the harbour
ROFLMAO !!!-=I=- was going to say that !!;o)
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
Actually what did he do to prevent rot at the ends? oops, I better shut up.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
The ends are under so much compressive load that water won't soak in. Plus, I SANDED THEM SO DARN SMOOTH that water cain't get no purchase
Forrest - my story and stickin' to it
and as it rots (if it ever does) it will simply sag a bit and compress to the good wood.
50 years from now they'll marvel while they cross the bridge.
HEY FORREST! Maybe your wife could make a special tile with the family handprints and date to memorialize the bridge....
but don't waste the champaigne with a christening.... drink it first.Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
Sounds good from where I stand. (
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
<You forgot to sand the ends.......>
You know, I didn't sleep at ALL last night when I realized you were right. I fixed it, okay?
Pre-Novy -View Image
Post-Novy - went for that "hewn" lookView Image
Forrest - sheesh - tough crowd
Edited 2/14/2008 4:55 pm ET by McDesign
Stripped the forms, backfilled and tamped, put on the treads, made and installed the "breadboard ends"
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Locals found the bridge - I invited them to christen it for wheeled transport -
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They said it was "cool" and "why don't it fall down?"
Forrest
Edited 2/14/2008 5:02 pm ET by McDesign
Looks so nice, detailed out, and everything fits so perfectly.
Just curious, have you considered how it might look as a covered bridge?
P.S. How's your son's shiner doing?
Edited 2/14/2008 10:06 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
" . . . covered bridge " Oh, man, now you went and did it !Greg
forrest.... looks great !
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hey the kid on the left with the corn-rows
did you know a doo like that takes 4 - 5 hours to install ?
at least two people have a lot of patience
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
another kudo, Forrest - good job, well done - "there's enough for everyone"
I am really enjoying my laugh here Forrest.............
Beauty of a project. We unfortunately don't have that many oppourtunties in life to do really innovative things. When they come along they should be grasped........
One of the most important things that I think you accomplished here was finding a way to make the budget work. Thus you cleared the way to pull off a project that you will always be proud of. Unless it falls down~ I had to say that because it was fun.
BTW thanks for sanding the ends ;)
On a hill by the harbour
SuperCool!
Amazing My Man!! Simply beautiful job all the way though. Double Kudos to who ever brainstormed the wrecker for the move.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I've been following this whole thing and it's been a lot of fun.I don'tthink I've said anything yet,so let me say now AWESOME!
Great idea !I would still drive that truck very very slowly.One pothole, and you could be carrying matchsticks...Let it take all day to get there. Better that, and a good solid bridge, than the alternative.It may seem like forever during the doing of it, but once set, it's all over.
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
I hadn't even considered the damage the creek could do. I guess it's at its lowest all year right now. This is why you get the big bucks. I was thinking like Dovetail: not to pick it up in the middle like Luka was envisioning, but slings to both ends. Gotta keep it from rotating somehow...guy ropes like a Macy's balloon?Thanks for being so vicariously available to us!
Thanks for sharing this adventure here. A highly admirable challenge. It's great fun to watch the progress.
You'd really enjoy the St. Louis Arch, and the story of how it was engineered and built. I have a fine book of photos and explanations which I got in the gift shop there. Very inspiring project.
I think that if you can get the bridge close, using the telehandler is as good an idea as any, to set it in place. But.... veeeeeery slooooooooowly.Maybe put in some cribbing, underneath. To lift it by ?I still wouldn't want to carry the thing the entire way, that way, but I think you could solidify things well enough for the short move at the end...
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
Frenchy will be along to tell you you're wrong about the telehandler in a minute. 60, 59, 58..........http://grantlogan.net/
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete (I am so in love with myself) Draganic
I'll hold my breath.
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
Well, it's marvelous....except the ends look like they come to an abrupt halt. It's all about the finials...
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~Splintie, trying not to be too critical on my first full day back...
can't you add a clear finish to the trex along with that Shark Bite (sand) stuff or whatever from Sherwin Williams?
Interesting! Have to read up on it.
Forrest
Please take good pics of the truss-to-walkway transition and connectors. This is beautiful and simple and simply beautiful. Adapting recycled materials to the design puts the wow-factor in the red zone. <deep bow>
I have no idea WHY, but when I saw this listing I thought of you.
Need an amphib bus?
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Alvis-Stalwart-6x6-Tour-Amphibious-vehicle_W0QQitemZ300197360481QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item300197360481
jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
John,
Have you ever taken the " DUCK" tours in Boston?
It's a riot.
Walter P.S. Keep working on Rez He's ready to break
Have you ever taken the " DUCK" tours in Boston?
No, only been to Boston once and that was at the airport.
Keep working on Rez He's ready to break
That takes a group effort. Hit him from many sides at once and he'll give in ;) jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
duck tours are cool
we did one for ReckoFest
the boston sports teams always get on the duckboats when they have a championship parade
if anyone is sightseeing boston... put duckboats on your listMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Boy, that's something I could use every day!
Forrest
Great thread with equally great results. COngratulatiopns, job well done.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
My kid is trying to best your bridge!
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
She's a lot cuter than Forrest! (No offense Forrest).
LOL! Cutie for sure.
Here's my two girlies on the vine -
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Forrest
Edited 2/19/2008 10:13 pm ET by McDesign
Post 200 - the rest of the story. Had a little fill-in job awaiting; was able to build this little stoop COMPLETELY with bridge leftovers today - didn't even buy screws. Hell, this more than paid for ALL the Trex!
Was -View Image
Gone -View Image
During - those deeply cut stringers do have 2x4 sisters screwed and glued to them - 7" rise, 15-1/2" run - feels okay; the owner has trouble with regular steps.View Image
Now - owner will supply a lattice panel underneath -View Image
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Forrest
Edited 2/20/2008 6:44 pm ET by McDesign
OMG, Forrest
i only saw the first pic
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thought it was your "after".... didn't realize it was your "before"
phew... boy was i relievedMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I don't know, that original balustrade had a kind of funky, drunken logic to whoever built it, I bet!
Forrest
Hey, just got a lead on someone in north Atlanta that wants that specific type of bridge - he saw it at the guy's rainbow bridge website.
We'll see if I can fab it here, again.
Forrest
Congratulations! You may soon become the 21st Century's answer to John A. Roebling.
You can start a variation on Stan's stairshop. Instead of a building with curved staircases being constructed inside, you'd have all those rainbow bridges.
jt8
"A free society is a place where it's safe to be unpopular."-- Adlai Stevenson
Stan's got a gyrocopter, Forrest has a Kelmark. I think Forrest's is more powerful but Stan's can go places Forrest can't.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
The bridge, a year-and-a-half later - it looks like it's been there for ages -
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And this was the bridge built down the trail by the other bidder at the same time -
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Forrest - used ta' do that
Edited 9/18/2009 3:54 pm ET by McDesign
Looks like it's supposed to be there.copper p0rn
Like it grew there.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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It's living there.
Work for the greatest vital intensity - the greatest solidity and aesthetic reality. Finally, eliminate everything non-essential. Reduce to the absolute essence. ~ F.C. Trucksess
I like the footings on the competitors job :)
Is that a stub 4x4 jammed under the bridge to correct a sag? or was it original to the design?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
It's been there since the first time I saw it, just after it was built. There are some more "supports" like that underneath.
Forrest
Forrest,I hope your bridge is okay with all the flooding. You and your family and your home high and dry ?Greg
Yes - so far! How about down there? I just heard that the school system in the neighboring county, Rockdale, where I work, is closed today.
Forrest
We've had a wet summer in Albany and in Lee County, but no rain to speak of in about a week. We had our flood event here in 1994, 22 inches of rain in 24 hours when a Tropical Storm stalled.I really feel for those affected, Douglas County, even Buckhead. At least we don't have basements here. Sandy soil and a high water table prevent us from digging down.Glad you're okay. Hey, is the Rainbow Bridge at Kennesaw State ? I read this thread so long ago, but I don't think you ever named the school.Take care.Greg
No - it's Emory at Oxford. Emory University was originally chartered as a Methodist school/seminary in our little town in 1839, and "Big Emory" started in Atlanta around 1919. The original college serves as a 2-year branch.
Our house (two blocks north) boarded students in the late 1800s and early 1900s - they left graffiti carved into the upstairs mantles that we've preserved.
Forrest
Oh. Hey, you guys ever ride up to Berry College, in Rome ? That's where I went to school. The kids would love it, deer everywhere. The campus is 28,000 acres.Henry Ford was a great benefactor to the schools back in the 1930's. He brought stone masons from Italy to build a huge Gothic complex of dorms, a dining hall, a gym. Lots of the buildings on campus are the original log structures built by the students when the school was founded.Great day trip some time.Greg
Well his has a sidewalk and a "window" in the railing, I guess that's the value added features
Really though, the arch looks so much more organic. Looks like the flora thinks so too!
Loved that thread in construction, it inspired me....to what, I'm not sure, but I remember feeling inspired...
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
Edited 9/19/2009 1:48 am ET by PeterJ
I read the whole thread for the first time ... great work. What is really great is you worked through the problem that we call could concievably faced and used some really intelligent problem solving to arrive at a great, long term solution. Your approach to the problem, your resource management, and the engineering solution to moving and placing the bridge were great and have really tickled my brain on some of my own projects.
thanks for sharing.
Hey - that's a lot of reading - I'm honored!
Thanks for the kind words - it was a really enjoyable project, that was able to be done after I thought it was dead.
Forrest
That prop in the middle of the stream looks like a good place for brush to hang up on. In a creek around here the brush would build up around it and wash the bridge away in less than a year.
My bedroom is very sexy - Lots of candles and soft earth tones. [Brooke Burke]
Don't know how I missed this...been kinda busy.Good news...I look forward to seeing it.
The "original" Rainbow Bridge is the focus of an incredible PBS documentary:
Building the Rainbow Bridge
Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be available as a DVD, but the PBS site has some detail.
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
Forrest,
Cool project. I'll stay tuned.
Will the budget allow a steel structure trimmed in wood?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
No steel - has to be at a certain price-point. Hopefully a "calling card" for me - I get a plaque, and with the leaves down it might be visible from my backyard.
Forrest
I saw the PBS deal - an old client recorded it from me. That was several years ago, and I've always wanted to make one. This was a nice surprise to be asked to come up with an interesting bridge for the college.
Forrest
very cool. Do I understand correctly that you'll be fasbricting this thing?
BTW you still looking for those rock-face CMUs?
<you'll be fasbricting this thing?>
I am still looking for rock-faced CMUs for another job.
I'm not sure what "fasbricting" is. Fabricating? Yes. Bricking? No.
Forrest
Although, if the Egyptians were doing it, they would probably fill that section of the creek with sand, sledge the bridge over the sand bridge, get it into position, and then remove the sand. ;)
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
RE: moving the last 20 feetCheck your local rental houses for a 'Griphoist' - a cabled come along that will allow you to move that kind of weight by hand power and in a controled fashion - you should also have a couple of nylon straps to guy the hoist and bridge - another strap and snatch block would allow you to double the pull and operate the hoist close to the bridge - "there's enough for everyone"
After seeing the pics, I'd rent a crane @ 150.00 an hour.
Be done with it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
tut tut tut, with an attitude like that you're never going to spend 2 days getting the bridge across the creek. Sheeze, take all the fun out of it. ;)
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
thought he posted something about not being able to get machinery to the area - "there's enough for everyone"
Bigger crane..:)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Hey, thanks to the good ideas here and one or two dad had, we think we can move the bridge completely assembled. I'll build it here, in the front yard right by the road; then we'll move it. Rounded up some railroad jacks, a Bobcat, a small Kubota with a 3-pt hitch, and a full size backhoe - just neighbors happy to donate for a sorta' town project.
Maybe pick up the front with the 3-pt; back on a dolly or on the Bobcat bucket; slowly drive to the site; use the backhoe to lift maybe, or at least stabilize it as we roll the dolly over some temporarily post-braced 2x12s over the ditch.
I'm building in a 2000# rated cable assembly as a tension member across the extreme bottom to keep the arch aligned during construction and moving it.
So many pieces to get in just right; feel better close to my shop and power and lots of clamps and come-alongs.
Forrest - playing in my own yard
so - are you using carriage bolts?"there's enough for everyone"
LOL!
Boatloads of 'em - almost 200
Hey - was it you with the 13000# of pecans? We had some weirdness here - several trees gave perfect 3-lobed pecans - no one's seen that before here, in the 40 years we've been here - heard of that?
Forrest
I use them bolts in all my carriages - wasn't me with all those pecans - one of the TX contingent, I think - I do have 4 pecan trees - in 1984 the Northern Nut Growers had a seed distribution - seeds from the northern most pecan stand - an island in the mississippi river - were sent out to interested members - out of 10 seeds, I got 4 trees, and got the first crop 3 years ago - the nuts are small compared to commercial varieties, but quite tasty - nut breeding - a game for the generations - "there's enough for everyone"
Bobcat, 3-pt hitch tractor, backhoe - That's sounding more like it!
The image of you & your garden tractor was pretty awesome though - I was negotiating with a video crew to capture that for AFHV :-)
Well, I've sorta' done it before on a smaller scale - this went on a different section of the same trail; built it by the shop.
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Down the road with the lawnmower -
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Forrest - one-man parade
Edited 1/25/2008 8:29 pm by McDesign
Got the truss all assembled and bolted together with my weekend crew today - View Image
6" Carriage bolts through the small joints; 2' all-thread through the big intersections. We assembled it on its side with smooth 1/4" rods throught the six 15-thickness joints, and the thirteen small forked joints just engaged, no bolts.
Then dad and I heaved and flipped it vertical, and hammered all the small joints into engagement. After that, we hammered in all thread, pushing out the long alignment pins.-View Image
I was concerned about assembly sequence, and I couldn't bang the 2x4 transverse compression members through until it was all bolted together, and I couldn't stand it up without them. I noodled around and came up with this idea - two 1/2" x 13" smooth rods; placed to give the maximum meat in front of them; piercing (8) of the 2xs on each end. Between these stations is a pre-made 2000# working-load rated cable assembly. It's exactly 239" eye-to-eye, so I just made mounts at that spread.
I'll probably leave this tension member in at least until we set the assembled bridge on its piers.
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Still needs the 2x4s banged throught the "diamonds", but we finished before dinner. Beer and hot chocolate for everyone!
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Forrest
Edited 1/26/2008 6:05 pm by McDesign
All but the top crossmember on today - gorgeous day; t-shirt weather!
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Forrest
Edited 1/27/2008 6:37 pm by McDesign
Looks like a pretty dark day for the bridge, though.;o)
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
Forrest making his own Bailey bridge.
jt8
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals." -- Sydney Smith
Hey Forrest-
Take a look at this site: http://sahale.com/. Scroll down the left side to "Timber Bridges", there's a truss bridge that I think you'll like right at the top of the page. Not many pictures of it, unfortunately. Seems like it's called a "newton truss" bridge or something.
I worked for the company for quite a while, but not on that bridge.
Zak
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Nobody, nobody, nobody has threads as cool as McDesign. I've been watching this like a it was a soap opera (as if I watched those...) and I am flat a$$ed impressed by how this talented man made a cool concept come together like it was nothing on a next-to-nothing budget.
My hat is off. Thanks for all of this!
Well, it sure looks nice, and the story is a good example of the challenges we face -and overcome- on a daily bais. Contracting is about a lot more than banging in nails!
Now, for some general comments .... and, yes, I know it's always easier to second-guess after the fact
I like the use of the wrecker - it was almost as if the truck was desigend for that exact job.
At a 20 ft. span, you're right on the edge of it being a 'bridge.' Were it 19ft11in, it would still be a 'culvert.'
The tread cleats may look nice, but I've never been happy with them under my feet. This, of course, brings up the question of "what can you do?" As flawed as the competitor's bridge may be, I bet you never even notice it as you transition from the trail to the boards.
I also can't really fault the competitor's lack of imagination, given the financial constraints. Admit it: you did yours as a charity job, with a lot of help (like that deal on Trex).
The additional braces under the competitor's bridge suggests that it bounces / sways too much in use. THAT would be a serious flaw. I recognize how your arch avoids those issues. I'm kind of surprised if that's the case, considering the availability of TJI's.
Now, at this point, I'd like you to think for a moment about the traditional covered bridge. Why do you think they came about?
(Pause a moment to ponder)
I believe that the 'covered bridge' was covered to camoflage a structural trick. I believe that the entire structure - deck, walls, roof - was a big truss, essentially making the entire bridge one big tube. This allowed for a thinner deck and greater span, and added a great deal of stiffness.
Carrying that idea along, what if the 'handrails' were in fact the main trusses, with the bridge deck only having to span the space between the railings?
I've recently seen plenty of Trex installed in high-use areas, and one thing that stood out was its' wear resistance. With that in mind, I am surprised that Trex does not offer a textured / knurled / milled surface. I expect the bumps would last pretty long.
Trex is, as you noticed, very heavy. It also seems to be only "half as stiff" as wood. There are competing products that have structural shapes, and I wonder how they would fare on a project like this. The other products might even be more suitable for adding small (less than 1/4") drain / traction holes.
Interesting thoughts! Covered bridge/truss would certainly be cool. TJIs would need to be under the cover
Philosophically, on a nature walk it may be BETTER to pause on a bridge and note the surroundings than to just plod past un-noticing.
Forrest
I'm glad you took my comments so well. I was afraid you would think I was just being negative.
If nothing else, your design squeezed as much out of 2x4's as is possible!
A guy who did his pHD on covered bridges told me that the sides were indeed big trusses, and that the roof wasn't there to protect the users but to protect the structure.
There are steeply curved bridges like Forest's in Venice, Italy and over the Charles River between Cambridge and Boston. They are somewhat awkward in use, but they do make crossing water an event.
Had always heard that covering the bridge was more due to horses than anything else. The feeling was they spooked going over open bridges while the covered bridge was just another barn to them. Suppose its time to google.
Testify! Brother!
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
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I did google and the majority of sites agree it was generally done to protect the structure. Some suspect the horse effect was noticed after the fact and thats why it gets credited some of the time.
That's what Ben Brungraber, Tedd Benson's "Dr. Joint" said. If you think about it, why cover just some bridges? That's a lot of work that a pair of blinders would probably do just as well.
A covered bridge is usually a pretty intricate timber frame. Old barns don't last long once the roof rots and rain gets to the structure. Same thing with those bridges.
I was under the impression ( having grown up around covered bridges) that it was mostly to avoid having the horses spook when crossing the water.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
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