I am currently remodeling a backroom and would like to raise the ceiling, and am unsure exactly how high I can go. I would ideally like to raise the joist/ties to 8′ off the wall as measured along the rafters to facilitate 2 full sheets of rock, although it is not essential.
The existing roof is a 4-12 pitch, 10 feet wide and spans approx 14-16 feet from wall to ridge. All 2×6. The ceiling joists play double duty as collar ties, also 2×6. Distance from the top of ceiling joist to the ridge is 4’6″.
I am in New England so snow load is a factor. Looking for a little advice.
I have attached a small diagram.
Thanks in advance.
JRE
Replies
need some clarification here.
Did you mean eight feet offff the wall?
How high is the ceiling now?
if it is built as drawn, you have a problem because the rafters sit on a cantilever of that ceiling joist. Is that an accurate representation? it is not a typical detail. are you certain these are not trusses. You show a ridge beam so I would assume it to be stick framed.
if stick framed, the roof rafters are probably barely sufficient for snopw loads at the span and pitch. If you raise the ceiling, it would likely hang from the roof rafters instead of sitting on the wall. That would add the weight of the ceiling to the rafters and could make them sag.
Another problem is that it would appear that you would only have 5.5" for iunsul;ation for a portion of the roof. How do you feel about roof leaks from ice damns?
Excellence is its own reward!
If the detail is accurate, this is not at all a good situation. Hopefully the rafters are birdsmouthed into the wall plate in the conventional manner. The roof looks overspanned already with no collar ties and low angle in high snow load area.
There are ways of lifting the ceiling, but they would almost certainly mean reframing the roof. The room is not that big at 9x10, unless the ceiling is well under 8' I would be inclined to live with it and spend the reno budget on something that would offer more return; ie, main living areas or bathrooms that all can enjoy (and offer better resale value improvement).
Lignum est bonum.
My 2 cents: Talk with an engineer. Have him/her spec a new beam to go under the existing ridge board, but supported only on the two ends. New beam should be sized to support both the existing ridge board, as well as new rafters from the new beam to the exterior walls. What you end up with is similar to a scissors truss. Looks like a 10 ft span, so the new beam will probably be only about 12 inches deep, so you will gain almost all of the attic space for the new ceioling. Course I don't deal with snow, so Piffins comments about ice dams may be a problem.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
A related thought you may want to consider: Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that one of the basic principals of architecture is that generally, you don't want a room to be taller than it is wide. It just doesn't feel right...
handball court?.
Excellence is its own reward!
Ok, maybe I should have said "one of the basic principals of residential architecture " :-)Matt
Well, the results are very disheartening. But I appreciate the input.
The ceiling in this room is at about 7' now and I wanted to open up the room a little. I had planned on going 8' diagonally up the rafter from the wall. The rafters are birdmouthed. and as for the detail in the diagram above the wall, these are nothing more than an extention of the wall to the rafter. The are 2x6 and run from top plate to the underside of the rafter. I was planning on building out enough off the rafter to add some additional insulation although the amount is limited by a window.
Of course all this seems a mute point, as you say the construction of this roof leaves a little to be desired.
Thanks again for the advice and input, greatly appreciated. Now I will go cry in the corner. Haha.
Once saw this done with custom 'scissor' trusses spliced in under the existing rafters.
'Instant' cathedral ceiling, lots of room for insulation and mechanicals. Thought it was a clever solution. Trusses can be incredibly strong.
I have no cost data.
Not sure what that thing that looks like a wall in the attic represents, but you would obviously lose your attic space with the trusses.
Got the entire ceiling torn out and have revised the picture for you. Looking to see if anything changes with this revision. Although I think this arrangement is most likely worse off than before.
Thanks Again.
JRE
OK, I'm not thread hijacking here, but I have a VERY similar situation. Same roof pitch and framing(mine is 2x6, 16"OC), Same room width, but ridge to wall is only 10' for a total 9'x20'. I'm redoing the kitchen soon and I'd like to lose the 7' ceiling, "cathedral" it, and add a skylight. I had planned on double 2x6 collar ties every 3' or so, 8-9' up, and either sistering in 2x8 rafters(I'll be adding anyway with the leaker) or firring the rafters to allow for air channel and insulation. I have another room with exposed(faux) beams and don't mind at all. Maybe this is an option for Mastermech.
So anyway, whadda youz guys think?
Mike One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.
The problem with the 'collar ties 8 to 9 ft. up' is that you are transferring the spreading load from the ceiling joists to the collar ties AND the lower couple feet of the rafters. With a low pitch roof the spreading load is higher, and the rafters may not be up for this. The collar ties also concentrate a point load on the rafters where they attach.
Many structures are built this way, but are [generally] engineered accordingly.
Some things to consider...
Good points all. I'm not afraid to sister in 2x8 rafters and use whatever connection method the loads required, if that would stabilize it enough.
I'm not gonna do it half-a$$ed, just not up to tearing the roof off. The ceiling's getting stripped off anyway, and the 7' ceiling drives us nuts.
MikeOne by one, the penguins steal my sanity.
Only a 7-6 ceiling...I can see why you want to raise it.
I did something very similar, which included removing a wall that supported the ceiling. I think I outlined the process in my earlier response to you here, and I still think it would work for you.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Bump.One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.
the method i used was to first attach angle braces from the floor to the top of the wall to prevent the walls from blowing out.then support each rafter near the top down to the floor with a long stud, at this point you can cut out the existing ceiling joists. then i cut out the existing ridge beam with a saw zail, cutting the rafters back just far enough to install your new ridge which would be an engineered microlam, supported at each end. next i would sister each rafter with a 2 x 10. might be a slight over kill however it allows room for plenty of insulation, avoiding the ice daming. i always put collar ties in no matter what to ease my own mind, even though those engineers are NEVER wrong, even if it is at the bottom of the ridge. besides, it makes a nice spot for a ceiling fan or recessed lights.
Mastermech..
Did you check out the article on fine homebuildings home page this month. There is an article on site built trusses that might work for you. They did it for a barn, but the application looks similar.
I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!