If a guy has a few wall jacks and wants to raise sheathed walls on a slab, how do you secure the bottom plate?
elementary question I’m sure… but I’ve only built walls on wood subfloors!
Then how do you line and brace ’em too? Screw blocking down with tapcons?
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Replies
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=108553.1
Thank you.
As to the question of holding the bottom plate whilst jacking the wall up. Put a kicker on the outside face of the slab?
Can't toenail the bottom plate into the floor I would assume.
As to the question of holding the bottom plate whilst jacking the wall up. Put a kicker on the outside face of the slab?
Can't toenail the bottom plate into the floor I would assume.
Sorry, but I can't give you the best answer for that because I don't frame that way.I sheath after the walls are up. I nail all bottom plates down and pull both top plates back and toenail my studs to the top plate and then push the bottom of the studs into the bottom plate and raise the walls.
You'll get better answers from the guys here who frame that way.
Joe Carola
I imbed 1/2" j-bolts or plate ancors in the slab per the local code. I would be afraid of using wedge bolts out of fear of cracking the slab near the edge.
I also set the plates in a double bead of polyurethane adhesive, then bolt them down or nail the straps.
Chuck S
You and bruce have got me wrong.
Yes of course we need Jbolts, bearing plates and hold downs.
My confusion is how to keep the wall from sliding forward when lifted with wall jacks.
How to keep the bottom plate from moving.
Maybe it's not an issue once the j bolts or sstbs are in the holes or slots cut in the bottom plate for 'em.
hey guy let me ask a question. Do you have the PT plates already down or are you using them as bottom plates for the stud wall?
I have done what you are trying to do so once I know that I can give you a better answer.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
If you have come to know me, I'm planning ahead!
This job will start in a month or so.
So far, my brain has a new slab pictured, with ab's and hd's. A wall built flat on the slab and sheeted. The bottom plate is indeed PT.
Is there an easier way? Use a dbl bottom plate, put the PT plate to the slab first and stand the 2nd on it with the wall?
Whaddayaknow?
It can be done both ways.
Most common for me is PT bolted down to lines and leveled. Bolts should be no longer than needed, ( 4 threads above nut IIRC)
Drop a few scrap 2x right next to the PT plate and set your bottom plate on the scraps, this raises the bottom plate to the level of the PT. Then toe nail the bottom plate to the Pt just as you would to a wood deck.
If you use studs or plate stock as a continuous shim for instance as then you can lay the bottom of the studs on it as well and everything stays on plane.
I do the same at the top and that way I don't have to pry the top plate off the slab to get my wall jacks under it.
I always drill 1 1/2 holes through the bottom plate so it will drop over the nuts/washers easier, sometimes it still takes a bit of maneuvering however so I use 12d or 16d as the toe nails. PT as bottom plate requires setting blocks next to the anchor bolts and using the bolts themselves to keep the wall from sliding. The wall can be raised quite a ways before it will want to slide and the bolts will start into the holes if you have lined things up correctly. After the wall is raised you drive the blocks out and drop the wall.
Another is the use of outside kickers, drive some 2 x 4 next to your slab edge and put a kicker on them . The sheathing will slide down the 2 x and keep you from sliding off the edge of the slab. Again blocks are needed to keep the plate raised so it can slip over the anchor bolts. Slots are a huge NO NO with anchor bolts. The hole is supposed to be drilled for clearance only (1/8" preferred, 1/4" accepted, over size) I prefer the first method, or has been stated, stick build it.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Shoulda just emailed you.
"Drop a few scrap 2x right next to the PT plate and set your bottom plate on the scraps, this raises the bottom plate to the level of the PT. Then toe nail the bottom plate to the Pt just as you would to a wood deck. "
Bingo!
That's a good oppty to make things really level too. I have a dot laser that I often stick on top of whatever it is down the line I'm leveling. Measure up to the dot, or shim up to the dot, as it were, and by the time you get to the other end. You're level and flat to a 1/16th.
THank you. good method.
And, on the slots. Sir yes Sir!
Pat
On the slots. Well how many times do you want to build the wall to satisfy code and the inspector?
It was just once for me, many, many, years ago. Some lessons just stick with you.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Sir yes Sir! As in, I'm with you 110%
Yes, sometimes it seems I can have something explained to me more than 1x but don't really learn it until 'on the road walking...' as in 'you make the road by walking...'
No slots? I wonder if these will pass inspection?
I am hoping that you aren't actually counting on that as an anchor!
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Sure ,what's wrong with it? Just kidding. That picture and a few others I took from some houses being framed right down the road from me. I wanted to see how "pros" frame. I'll post some other pics later that should raise a few eyebrows.
One of the headers inside one of the houses read, "Esta casa no esta framiada bien, otra vez." Translated, "This house is not framed correctly,again". I wonder if the person who wrote that was looking at the anchor bolts when he wrote it?
Hey it's 4 threads over the plate, just like Dovetail said!
Don't they require j-bolts to secure sill plates of exterior walls to the slab where you are?
Here in earthquake country we have to embed bolts in the foundation/slab and also 3' long straps to tie down each end of the required shear panels.
thanks,
see reply to StevenT
If you sheet your walls befor they ar up how do you plumb of rake the wall if you are out of plumb? I sheet after the walls are up as well.
Hire Man power to stand your walls.
It sounds like you are working solo.
There will likely be 2 of us. I have 4 proctor wall jacks that climb a 2x4, and a bunch of tricks that make them feel safe. But never used them on a slab.
As to how i plumb walls that are out. I don't frame often. If I know the subfloor is dead level I don't worry about it.
If It has problems, I don't sheath or just leave a couple loose sheets ready to nail off when the wall's racked.
It's a small building and will be a new slab. should fly!
If it is a job done on a flat slab, without edge curbs as a garage might have, I would plan to do it with P.T. sub-plates ("soles") fixed on first.
The soles would not be bolted, but instead we would use one of the Simpson or USP strap embedments for anchoring them to the slab. Anchor bolt ends, and their nuts and washers, would slow us down and maybe foul what would happen at wallframe time.
Wallframe bottom plates and top plates need to be blocked off the slab with 2x scraps, laid in against the soles at 32" centers and toenail tacked. Before we lay in the wall plates and studs for nail-up, we would tack 8" cuts of scrap steel banding to the spacers that then get tacked to the bottom plates of the wall.
Two 2x6s butted to the soles and also toetacked to them, are what the feet of the Proctors will get nailed into.
I drew you a pic in Sketchup and here it is. The hinge straps, made from the steel spaghetti your lumber supplier gives you for free, are seen in orange. We use them for a walljack (ours are Tranzporters) lift whether on a wood deck or a slab.
View Image
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Good system. I forgot about that one I have used similar by using 10' long 2x as the base piece for the wall jacks.
I own "Climbing Jacks" though.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Excellent!
I wish I could use sketchup that fast.
Thats an interesting picture Gene and at first, I thought you might be the first guy ever to be doing something similar to my days when I used wall jacks exclusively. Your system is close to what I've done.In MI, every house I framed had a garage that was framed on a course of 8x16 4" block. Sometimes the block courses were two or three course high. To put it mildly, they were very tippy till the wall was standing on top and every thing was locked in with the exterior fill and the slab on the inside. One of the lessons learned real early in my career was that if I wasn't careful the blocks would all lay over when a heavy wall was about at a 35 degree angle. Anyways, in a flash of brilliance (desperation actually) I came up with a foolproof system. Using the same thought process as you have by laying the base for the wall jack down on the ground, under the floor, I created a system where I tied all three angle of the triangle together as I raised them. The major difference from my system to your system is that I attached the lumber banding straps to the 2x base instead of the small scraps of wood. I'd project the underlying base long enough to nail the wall jack down on to it and when the wall went up, it was essentially pulling against the same plate that the wall jack was nailed too. It's a fool proof system. On a slab, with bolts, I'd probably rely on the bolts to keep the wall from sliding but if the wall is heavy, then I'd probably opt to slide my nailer base out beyond the edge of the wall and nail some type of kicker to the base. The base would be shimmed high enough so that the entire wall was clear of the bolts when standing plumb. Knowing how to lever the wall up, pull the base, and lower the wall down is the key skill here. It's not really that difficult but rookies tend to create some weird bracing issues when trying to lower a wall a couple inches.
Heres a sketch of how we would set up a wall jack out in the garage and other un-excavated areas. Normally, the garage walls would be 10' tall but 11' and 12' were not uncommon. Most of them were three car garages, so there would be considerable weight since we assembled everything. The really worrisome walls were the walls that contained the garage door s. Imagine jacking up a very heavy wall and getting it to balance on top of a couple of stacked blocks 16" wide. Typcially walls over 11' high were 2x6 but I've done then with doubled 2x4 walls.
The "scrap of plywood" could be eliminated and a metal banding iron fastened to the temp base and wrapped onto the wall as an option. I typically preferred the scrap of plywood method because there were always a few nice chunks laying there after the 1st floor deck was done and it was faster to cut loose than the metal. Remember, we'd have to slide this temp assembly out and lower the wall onto the blocks when we were done.
Heres the assembly in a critical stage.
waters... here's a picture thread ... shows how we do it with Proctor wall jacks
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=92880.49