While scratchin me arse and staring at the range outlet, I realize I have an old 3 prong. To go 4 prong, I need a ground wire, no? Since the electrician did not catch this, what are the options? Do I need a ground all the way back to the panel?
Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire
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Replies
ether,
Existing installations do not have to be converted to 4 wire. Your range instructions should tell you how to attach the 3 wire cord. Just did one myself and it was no problem.
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
Yes what the other Bill said
I'm just south of ya as you know
I upgraded mine last year
Manufactureres directions called to join oven neutral with wall ground.
Your 3rd wire in your exsisting outlet should be a ground not a neutral
BTW did you get your gas pipe problem taken care of?
"There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov
I am so mad about the gas pipe that I am letting it sit til better weather. I have found that ideas involving outdoor work in the winter lack creativity, and thus what we got already. Warmer weather does not put on the pressure to put up crap and run back to the truck to warm up!Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire
two hots
a neutral
and
a ground
the new code that makes the world go round
see manufacturers instructions, visit a hardware store, climb off of a twenty and You are Golden..........!!!
I think you should stick to rap, not electrical advice.(:-) He is code compliant in every case I am aware of with an existing 3 wire recpt.
The title is about changing the range cordset from 3 to 4.
But it appears that you already have a 3 wire receptacle.
If that is true then you need to change the corset from a 4 wire to 3 wire. Typically the instructions are on the back of the range.
Connect the two hots and neutral. Then there is a "jumper" that goes from the neutral terminal on the range to the metal case. It might be a green wire or it might be a strap or link that goes between two terminals on the terminal block.
If this is a new range then it should have the jump eithr on the block with the loose parts. Typically they come without a cordset and the installer needs to install the correct one.
If this is new receptacle then the electrican should be shot, but before have him run a new 4 wire cable and fix any damage to finished surfaces.
Ack! For clarity: There was an old three wire receptacle, and an old 3 wire stove. The stove is gone and we will get a new one. Since I only have 3 wires in the receptacle, can the new range be wired in with three prong instead of the 4 prong? Or, can a new appliance be either, based on the cord you hook up? I was not clear on my post title.
Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire
Edited 3/18/2006 1:04 am by etherhuffer
" Or, can a new appliance be either, based on the cord you hook up?Yes, that is why the come without a cordset. When you install it you get the proper cordset and then make the proper connections on the back of the stove for either 3 wire or 3 wire connections.The NEC only adopted the require 4 wires in 96 and some place it would be a few years before they adopted that version.However, for a long time before then some cities and some types of installations required 4 wires.So there is a large base of both styles so ranges have long been "convertable" between the 2 versions.
Yes, ask the appliance dealer to install a 3-prong pigtail.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
>>> Since I only have 3 wires in the receptacle, can the new range be wired in with three prong instead of the 4 prong? Or, can a new appliance be either, based on the cord you hook up?<<<
Yes the new range can be used either 3 or 4 wire. The new unit may already be set up with the jumper(from the neutral lug to the metal frame of the range), so it's 3 wire ready. The manual should have this info clearly stated.
To convert to 4 wire...the jumper is cut, the neutral from the 4 wire cord is attached to the neutral lug on the terminal and the 4th wire from the cord(ground) is attached to the range frame.
simple...even a caveman can do it ;)
So should I leave the old 3 wire receptacle in place? Any reason to change it out? It sounds like I need the 4 wire receptacle with a modification of the cord.Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire
It would be a violation of code to put in a 4-prong receptacle without replacing the cable with a 4-wire cable.CHANGE THE CORD ON THE RANGE TO 3-PRONG.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
You use the existing 3 terminal receptacle with the 3 wire supply and use a 3 wire corset on the range.Or you replace the supply wiring with 4 wire, replace the receptacle with a 4 teminal version and use the 4 wire cordset on the range.4 wire is really better, that is why they now require it. However, I have not seen any statistics on how much better. But it is really really very, very small. Thus they easily allow connection to the existing 3 wire setup.If it was very easy to replace it (short run, no finished surfaces to remove and repair) then I would replace it. But if there is any difficulty at all I would leave it 3 wire.
As Bill stated... yes, leave the existing 3 wire circuit in place and use the 3 wire cordset on the range.
I upgraded mine to 4 wire since I moved the range to another wall and the walls were open.
Thanks, that clears it up. We will leave the 3 there and call it good.Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire
I have never seen one where you cut the jumper, I always just reposition it as per the directions.
Yep...your right. Poor choice of words on my part. I removed the complete jumper.
Do not begin installing four wire receptacles cause you don't have the ground wire installed in your walls! Most of the posts here are correct but some are not allowed. Get the frigging cord set that matches the receptacle that you already have, it should come with the stove or be an option. The new cordset will have four wires that attach to the new stove; two hots, one neutral and one ground. The cord will plug into you present receptacle but there should be a green ground wire (pigtail) on the plug end that you should attach to the small screw in the wall receptacle (you are actually bonding the neutral to the new fourth wire ground wire at that point). Alternately, the new cord may already be set up with the neutral and ground wires already bonded but most don't, if it is already bonded then you won't have a little green pig tail wire to worry about.
In no case should you install a four wire wall receptacle unless you want to run four wire cable all the way to the main disconnect(the electrical meter and main disconnect live in the same box) for the whole house. If you attempt to run four wire cable to the subpanel you'll be in violation of the electrical code unless the ground and neutral are electrically separated at that point)and more importantly you could be setting yourself up for some serious shocking moments.
Unless you want to have an electrician rewire your subpanel and a good portion of your house then don't start fooling around with changing receptacles! This is just making things worse unless you know what your doing.
"The new cordset will have four wires that attach to the new stove; two hots, one neutral and one ground. The cord will plug into you present receptacle but there should be a green ground wire (pigtail) on the plug end that you should attach to the small screw in the wall receptacle (you are actually bonding the neutral to the new fourth wire ground wire at that point)."I have never seen a range cordset that has MENA 10-50P plug on it, but also a separate green EGC. Can you give a brand, part number, stocking number, cut sheet reference.That small screw is not rated for the possible fault currents that you might have."Alternately, the new cord may already be set up with the neutral and ground wires already bonded but most don't, if it is already bonded then you won't have a little green pig tail wire to worry about."All of them that I have ever seen have ONLY have the 3 or 4 wires terminated at the 10-50P or 14-50P http://www.leviton.com/sections/techsupp/nema.htmThe then at the range end you have 3 or 4 wires respectiavely.ALL BONDING OR UNBONDING IS DONE AT THE RANGE END.
The cord that came with my range had a pigtail at the plug end which the manufacture said was bonded to the plug screw. Now that you mentioned current rating I think you've brought up a subject that needs some rethinking. I too find it hard to trust just the screw on the receptacle to be sufficient for overcurrent protection. I could accept it on lower current apps but on larger current carrying appliances like stoves, I have some doubts and will have to investigate it further.
My rethinking is over, pulled the stove out to refresh the old memory banks, god what a mess! However, with regard to the range cord it's bonded with a green jumper at the stove end (stove frame to neutral) with a three wire plug on the other end. A much better arrangement in my opinion. I'm not cleaning the junk just pushing the stove back into it's hole and ignoring the old bread crumbs etc. cause if I can't see them then it's clean from where I stand.
My whole point was, if you don't have four wire setup in the walls of the house then don't install a four wire plug, use a three wire plug. You must not bond neutral to ground anywhere, not subpanel either, except at the main disconnect ( where the meter usually lives and ground rods are connected). There are ground and neutral bus bars within the subpanel but they should not be bonded or connected to each other within the house, only at the main disconnect.
"However, with regard to the range cord it's bonded with a green jumper at the stove end (stove frame to neutral) with a three wire plug on the other end."Thanks, that is what I suspected."I'm not cleaning the junk just pushing the stove back into it's hole and ignoring the old bread crumbs etc. cause if I can't see them then it's clean from where I stand."You do know that is where monsters bred. After they hatch they go an live under the beds.
Actually, the thing to do is to take the 4-wire plug and a large hammer and MAKE it fit the 3-prong outlet.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
ROAR
best idea yet
"There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->