My current client has asked if I would like to renovate an old house in their neighborhood. They found a 1910 house for sale and want to fix it up and sell it. I have several questions about what to look for when I visit the house.
I assume all the electrical will have to be redone. I have talked with my electrician, and he said to allow $3.50/sf for the rough-in plus $1000 for upgrading the service.
I suspect that the plumbing will be cast iron. If it’s original, should we plan to replace all the supply, waste and vent pipes? If the water heater is more than 5 yrs old, I think I’ll replace it also.
We’re in south Texas, so a/c is mandatory. If the house does not have it, then that goes on the list. If it already has a/c, then I’ll determine the age and replace it if it’s…what…more than 10 years old?
For the part of town she is looking at, the roof may be tile, the walls may be plaster, the floors will be oak, and there could be a crawl space. I’ll need to see if there are any historical limitations concerning the exterior.
What else do I need to consider?
Do it right, or do it twice.
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It sounds like you're in charge of determining the scope of work..? What input will the client provide as far as what gets done? If they just want to 'flip' the house, then they should talk to a realtor about what should be done to maximize saleability for minimum cost. New wire and pipe won't necessarily attract buyers, but freshly sanded floors, a new paint job, new carpet and vinyl, maybe a new vanity and lav in the bathrooms along with some clever staging--that's what realtors will probably recommend. A new roof is one of the things buyers like (and so do their mortgage and insurance brokers).
Good points Dave. So far we have only had 1-2 phone conversations, and I am trying to get my feet on the ground for when we do look at the housde and start talking about the scope of work. You're right about cosmetic overhauling...that might be the best route. However, I do want to know what to at least consider and propose. Changing all the wiring could be expensive when you consider getting new wires into the walls.
Do it right, or do it twice.
First off, is it structurally sound?
Is it protected from the elements? That is, are the roof, siding, windows, doors, insulation, overhangs, exisitng grade around the house all up to snuff?
After that I'd want to know about the electrical, plumbing (pay special attention to waste evacuation, including septic system or sewer connections), heating/cooling system.
After those considerations I'd pay attention to what I'll call "savable features existing" - cabinets, floors, wainscoting, beaded cailings, interior doors and millwork...and of course, existing wall surfaces (will paint clean things up or will you need to apply new wallboard or plaster)
This is where remodelling gets a bad name, when people enter into it without a plan and budget commensurate with the work needed to bring the building up to expected standards. Take your time now, Elcid, spend however much time it takes for you and the customer to agree on what the building will be when it's done, and what it will cost - tricky stuff here, be careful, your reputation hangs in the balance. And don't forget to get paid commensurate with your financial risk.
Oh! Don't forget to check for asbetoes and lead. A building that old could easilly contain either or both. Better to find out now than later.
Since she is going to buy it or has bought it, why not get an Inspector's report? This would be a good starting point for discussion.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
That had briefly crossed my mind...wonder if Bob W is available?
Do it right, or do it twice.
Most of the work I do is in older homes (1900-1910) in Richmond, Va. From my experience, it is very difficult to price jobs on these homes. A "simple" plaster repair job can turn into an entire day. Nothing is square, plumb, straight or level. Everything takes longer to do compared to newer homes. A lot of work you do will be time and materials because there are many unforseen problems. Just price accordingly and have fun with it if you get the job!
Ahh, well I suppose one can flush the toilet while the faucet is on,, see what happens. One of my concerns would be the permitting authorities (building dept),, just how far will they want an individual to go, which equates to time and money. After my lastest experience, get anything they tell you in writing. I've done two or three down and dirty fixer up quick jobs (for clients), and I did not feel good on any of those jobs. So I leave you to listen to your Gut feelings on this one. Good Luck,, Jim J
Check foundations and sills for settling and rot first. Anyplace where water runs like near bottom of roof valleys, to splash on trim etc.
Look at bottom ears of windows where water can get in and rot those sills.
It may not be insulated. Study how you would accomp[lish that one.
Water supply?
Gas lines?
Cast iron drains good to have.
Excellence is its own reward!
Also check to see if the house is in an historical (hysterical) district. Having to get approval for exterior changes and compromises sometimes involved can blow a budget and throw a monkey wrench in time scheduling.
Hate to be negative, but be wary of such a deal.
Flippers are unlikely to value the quality of your workmanship.
If the job gets over budget, or runs too long (time is money with carrying costs and such), or the RE market stumbles, all hell will break loose.
Hope you're planning on charging time and materials.
Looked at the house today with my client (the buyer) and her real estate agent. It's a perfect candidate for fixin up. Worst looking yard in the neighborhood, smallest house (at about 2300 sf), nice size yard, only saw one small ceiling water stain, excellent location. Didn't see any cracks in the plaster walls or ceiling, all the doors swing & close properly, might be the original owners, or at least very long-time owners, looked in the crawl space - didn't see anything unusual. I was worried about electric service, but for some reason there are three electric and three gas meters. They're asking $225k, agent says they'll probably take $165, put in about $100 for cosmetic fixes and a new roof, he thinks it will go for $500 when we're done. I think she's going to make an offer contingent on an inspection. Her agent says he can't recommend an inspector, but he knows one who he hates to see when he's selling...you know, Mr 14-Page-Report.
Do it right, or do it twice.
If that has 3 meters it is probably zoned multifamily (du/tri-plex), you might consider dividing it up, and either selling it or holding on to it as a rental, as a multi family you may get enough cash flow to make sense to hold on to it for a while
I do a lot of work on older homes and some have been a pleasure while some have been nightmares , one of the better ones was built in 1847 and was called cliff house and was featured on the cover of a book put out by taunton press /cant remember the name but it was about restoring old homes , it is a gothic style house with a 9ft tallmatching dog house.that house was a beautie,A grand dame, quatersawn oak wood work all trough it . most of the time on jobs like that i charge by the hour you just dont know what your going to find when you open up a wall . when i need to do a bid job i over estamate if it looks like it will take 3 to 4 hrs i bid a day 8 hrs cost plus materials if it looks like 3days i bid a week , i was told long ago by a oldtimer alwas over bid dont worry about loseing work ( easy for him to say ) but most of the time thats what i do and it works .face it i work for the money first and for my sanity 2nd. and by doing a good job the best that i can thats why they hire me not because im the cheapest. I love my work and i like tools and some of my customers love me and some dont and there the ones i dont need either. Dogboy
Edited 1/9/2004 7:43:11 PM ET by dogboy
I always plan on at least 2 visits. First one with blank clipboard to listen and write down the client's wish list. I take general measurements. I get a feel for what the priorities are and what type of $$ they want to spend. The second meeting I present ball park measurements with a clear understanding that they are purely estimates. At this point the customer needs to make some decisions and say yes, no, all of it or some of it. Now that the scope is narrowed its time for accurate measurements, many digital pics and a written contract.
I know this sounds laborious, but too many people get sticker shock and/or change their priorities after the the first 2 meetings. I also keep people focused on one area in the house at a time. As often happens, if you're dicussing a new entryway this will trigger a thought about a new bulk head door.
Prior to meeting with the customer after the initial consult I work off of typed lists. The lists will contain followup questions for the customer and areas that I need to gather more info such as ceiling hgt if I building an entertainment center or jamb depth if I will be replacing doors and windows.
Good luck!
MES