Re-doing old lathe and plaster ceiling
sledgie
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
The old house we just bought needs some help on some bedroom ceilings, lath and plaster with about 4 layers of wallpaper. Most of the paper seems to be stuck tight, but with old watermarks, waves, ripples, etc. just doesn’t look so good. Is the best fix in the long run just adding a layer of 1/2 rock and finishing from there? (9 ft ceiling so plenty of headroom)
Replies
I like the look of old plaster way more than drywall. I would remove the wallpaper and see if it's salvageable before covering it up. There is a lot that can be done to old plaster to save it. But I don't like the idea of old loose deteriorated plaster hanging over my head so I would probably cover it with 5/8 drywall if there is little hope of saving it.
You'll need to access the quality of the palster: several layers of wall paper cn hide a lot of problems. Can you see/reach the lathe from the attic? Are the plaster keys (the plaster that oozes through the gaps between the lathe in good shape?
There is a product called plaster washers, a round washer that can be used to reattach loose plaster.
Check out The "Old House Journal" for good info on rescuing plaster.
BTW, original plaster walls are rarely flat and characterless; drywall in old houses is pretty obvious and doesn't look right to some of us. Esthetics.
Sledgie
We just helped our 20-something daughter get into her first house, which is a 1920'ish arts-n-crafts style with horsehair plaster throughout. One of the bedrooms (fortunately, only one of the 3) had multiple layers of wall paper covering walls and ceiling. We painstakingly applyed wall paper remover and gently removed...we counted 4 or 5 layers! It took a long time, and we did find several cracks where the lath (actually not the keys) had pulled down through the little finish nails used to hold them up...so as the poster above said, I used 1" washers and drywall screws into predrilled and 1/16" countersunk holes to snug the ceiling back up to the joists. Used about 100 of them in a 10 X 12 room. I covered them with drywall compound, which for each of the small holes can't be detected in the finished ceiling.
Whatever you do, if you care about the character of the old house, don't use drywall. If necessary, hire a plasterer to come in and reskim the ceiling. There is no substitute for that slightly wavy, uneven plaster look!
BruceM
I agree, save the plaster if you can, it adds character to an old house that can be almost impossible to replace once its ripped out/covered over.
Also, if you add 1/2" sheetrock then all your moldings will look funny in that room, to a knowing eye.
There are companies that will remove wallpaper for you. A friend of mine had their 1880s rambling victorian done and it was amazing after they were done (they confirmed that none of the original paper was able to be / worth being saved). The company steam-removed every bit of paper and glue and you could look right at the original plaster just as it must have looked the day it was built (plus the cracks, and some water spots from the years). What a huge jump that gave them on the whole project, to have that miserable task done in a few days by some pros.
If you've got the money, and can find a local company skilled in that kind of work.
The other big jump is finding a window company who knows / respects old double hung windows to come in and re-sash cord all yours. What an amazing thing to watch. One day and all of them work again, almost like new. This is one thing that even the home fixit shows don't try to fake like it is easy. Like removing wall paper, it is slow, fussy and often frustrating, and even the pros don't go faster, they just do it for a living (so they're faster than a first timer, but they also have a crew to do many at once).
good luck with your project!
I'd bust the stuff out, add blue board, and give it a skim coat if you like the plaster look (wavey). Or just bust the stuff out, add some 1/2" drywall (yeah, I know, too thin for ceilings, but bear with me) and hire my drywall sub, Jose, to skim coat it with joint compound. Jose is such a lousy drywaller that everything he does is wavey, and I suspect he is drunk most of the time. The 1/2" wallboard will also sink and dip a bit after time, adding to that wavey plaster look.
Seriously, bust it out with the wooden lathe and add some 5/8" rock. It should just about even out with any existing molding.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927
"I'd bust the stuff out, add blue board, and give it a skim coat if you like the plaster look (wavey). "
Skim coat will look like drywall: flat. Sheet good flat just doens't look right in old house, according to old house lovers.
The waviness of plaster isn't obvious, you can only see it by comparison with sheet goods (not necessarily side by side) and you have to look for it. Once you see it, you'll rarely be fooled. I can almost always see the difference between plaster and drywall, but have to thump to tell the difference between drywall and blueboard w/ skim coat. (This is something I do several times every day.)
"busting out" plaster will make a heck of a mess (more of a mess than "busting out" drywall, usually).
If you can save it you'll avoid the huge cleanup (the dust gets everywhere and is hard to keep in one room).
I guess that if the house is un-occupied it would not be as much of an issue, though I would still try and save it for all of the reasons stated by others above.
If you can get at the top of the plaster thru the attic, you can first get the crud out of the way with a shop vac, and then inject yellow woodworking glue between the keys and the lath to stabilize it. That is, of course, if you want to save it. Don't just hang drywall in addition to the plaster. That's a lot of extra weight, and old ceiling joists sometimes aren't sufficient and start to sag. If you decide to go the drywall route, first demo the plaster.
-- J.S.
John
I have no experience with this, but do you think that yellow glue is right for this job? Will you can vacum the gross crude out you won't have clean surfaces to work with.
I would think about construction adhesive.
I've used the yellow glue with good results. It's thin enough to flow down between the lath and plaster, whereas construction adhesive would only grab the region of the key. Any remaining dirt just gets incorporated into the glue, which soaks in a little bit to both the lath and plaster.
-- J.S.
Plaster looks great, but it feels even better. I would never cover the stuff on surfaces people touch.
On the ceiling, however, you might get away with drywalling over it. It all depends on how easy it is to get a long, low angle view of it or the paint job relies on the surface patina.
In a bathroom with any moisture damage, it is likely to be a real mess to fix. Bathrooms are also small, so it will be less likely to be evident that it is drywall.
I agree about using yellow glue. Do this a lot to consolidate old plaster in repair work. You can also use concrete bonding agent like Elmer's, which is essentially yellow glue but a different color (gray-green).
Ken Hill
Even with the kets gone you can clean out as described, then prop up any sagging areas and pour drywall adhesive on top, let set, then sort out the underside, good luck.