I’m new to this, so pardons if I’m asking something that has been asked recently.
Has anyone had any experience with Kemper stock kitchen cabinets? “Choice” construction.
According to the website, the cabinets have 3/8″ furniture board box, 3/4″ furniture board shelving, 3/4″ dovetail sides. Is this “solid” enough? Are there other measurements I should ask for? thanks.
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Replies
Hardware?
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Kemper and Schrock are made by the same folks. Kemper is the cheaper line... Schrock is the higher end.
Kemper cabinets have laminated stock many times. Schrock has mostly solid stock. The drawer slides are slightly different.
If you are anywhere close to Richmond IN, I can give you a great place that sells out the seconds, canceled orders, and overruns from the factory. I get cabinets there at about 1/4 of regular pricing. It is open to the public. they have other locations.. but I do not know what cabinet manufacturers they represent at the other locations.
By going this route, it is possible to get Schrocks, at pricing that is way below the cost of Kempers. You do have to look and dig for the deal... but worth it in the end.
http://www.cabinetoutlet.com/indiana/first.htm Ask for Mike.
Dear Rich from Columbus,
Thanks for the info re: Kemper and discount cabinets. Unfortunately I live in the Boston area, so Indianapolis is a bit far to go for cabinet seconds! But thanks for the tips.
Debbie
"furniture board box"
sounds like vinyl coated particle board???
yep
Yeah, but it's 3/8" thick ... that has to count for something!
Debbie ... from the details you provided, it sounds like these cabinets are garbage.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Edited 8/6/2004 8:44 am ET by Ed Hilton
Not really garbage... but not as good as I can build in my shop :)
the 3/8 is used in the back panel. While it wouldn't be my first choice... even the higher end cabinets use the same thing (sad state of affairs in the cabinet world)
I have set Kempers before, and the biggest complaint I had was the faces. After a few years, the finish won't "enhance" (get more beautiful) as it does with solid stock. Get a small scratch and it won't be as quality a fix as it is with solid stock.
For mid range cabinets, they aren't horrible. They aren't the greatest either. Price vs quality is a bit high... but I am at a loss for ANY stock cabinet that isn't also high.
Rich,
I was imagining that I would get a shaker style cabinet that I came painted white - so then, "enhancing" is irrelevant, no? But I believe solid stock is an upgrade - you're saying it's worth it?
Debbie
If it is remotely within your budget guidelines, solid stock is always preferable, IMHO.
Don't get me wrong... I have used them; and will use Kempers in the future. However, I will always provide the HO with the alternatives. Sometimes they were not aware of the differences.
Crud... I missed the rest of your question....
>>"enhancing" is irrelevant, no?
Premature yellowing is the concern with white cabinets. This can be held off for a while... but can creep up on you if you don't stay on top of it. Yellowing will occur naturally, but the smoke, grease, etc in a kitchen will certainly speed that process if not carefully watched.
Keep in mind that I make a lot of custom cabinets, so my opinion is extremely biased to the highest quality end of the scale. And as I said, Kempers are a bit high on the price/quality ratio (value) for my tastes... but I have yet to find a stock cabinet that wasn't.
Edited 8/9/2004 4:01 pm ET by Rich from Columbus
Rich,
You said,
"Premature yellowing is the concern with white cabinets. This can be held off for a while... but can creep up on you if you don't stay on top of it. "
"Staying on top of it" means regular washing down the cabinets? And, is the amount of yellowing affected by the cabinet door material? I ask this because I did get a quote on custom white cabinets, and the shop told me they would use MDF doors -They said that MDF is more stable than solid wood (the wood would shift/change with the moisture content of the air and show areas that weren't painted), and is a better surface than solid wood if you plan to paint it - what's your opinion?
Thanks.
Yes.. wipe down cabinets often.. avoid regular soap... DAMP only. Dust any areas that are not regularly wiped down with a feather duster.
Every 2-6 months, use diluted Murphy's oil soap. Murphy's will have a tendency to yellow also... but the benefits outweigh the detriments IMHO. Be sure to buff with a dry cotton cloth after. As a matter of fact... use a soft cotton cloth whenever cleaning the finish. When cleaning with murphy's... be sure to not "over wet" the surface... "just beyond damp" is fine. Look for any chips or cracks and touch up with material provided by the manufacturer.
I have a HUGE bias toward solid wood. The guy that is telling you about MDF has a point... but well-designed cabinets do not have the problems he is outlining. Wood, as a nature of the beast, moves. It is HOW that wood moves that is the key to the design. I build all-wood cabinets for customers all of the time... and have yet to have one repair call. I will point out, however, that I use joinery as an art form and I take a LOT of time to get it "right". My uncle was a disabled vet (former machinist) that spent all of his time working with joints, wood stability, wood movement measurements, moisture tests... you name it. He built a set of end-tables and coffee table with no screws, no glue... nothing but joinery and a lot of micrometer use.... that are still in pristine condition 30+ yrs later. I was fortunate that he passed that information (and his journal) to me. FWIW, I will use veneer plywood on certain surfaces.. but mostly solid wood.
If the cabinets are "custom production", then I would agree that MDF may be more stable. However, if the guy building the cabinets is an old-time craftsman... then "MDF" is a dirty word. If I used MDF in a cabinet, my uncle would come back from his grave and pull out every hair on my head (what little is left)!
Be aware, however, that the type of cabinets I am talking about cost a LOT more than the production cabinets do.... and they are not for every house. I did a kitchen for a customer that spent $35,000 for her cabinets... and the kitchen was not that big. However, this house was their "rest of our life" home.. and they wanted what they wanted... irregardless of price. They would never recover that kind of investment in a resale.... but they will recover it in their enjoyment. (FWIW, they also had all of their floors replaced with 5/4 quartersawn oak, had a $15,000 shower installed, had all of their interior doors replaced with custom designed, solid oak 5-panel doors, etc, etc, etc)
It's helpful to read your opinions and care of cabinets tips....
It probably is an apples and oranges kind of thing, though - we're building a new house and have so many expenses to consider, so that $35,000 for cabinets, in Ohio, translated to Boston prices, is realistically way out of our price league. So, I'm evaluating much cheaper custom cabinets vs. stock. Sigh...
thanks for the thoughts though. I will take from this thread that solid wood is much better than something else!
>>I will take from this thread that solid wood is much better than something else!
That was generally what I was trying to convey.
It really all boils down to priority of wants and needs. If given the choice of hardwood floors or custom cabinets... Kemper looks pretty good (until I can replace them LOL). Schrock is better, if it is in the budget.
That is subject to change, however, if I have 6 kids, am Italian, and lova to cooka lasagna (witha homa mada saucea) every nighta fora me familia! In this case, I have granite counter-tops, stainless appliances, custom cabinets, and a cleaning lady!
FWIW, the $35k cabinets were an anomaly. It is very possible to get good custom cabinets much cheaper than that... I was just using that project as an example of how outrageous it can get. Those cabinets had inlay doors, custom hardware (granite pulls), and full extension slides. The customer, however, had made up their mind on what they wanted.. so it was left to me to make that vision come true.
Dear Ed,
OK, it's good to know!
Debbie
Migraine,
I guess I'll have to ask the company to define what they mean!
Debbie