I ripped out my old 4″ x 4″ front porch posts for replacement at the same time I decided to lay a wood deck on top of the concrete porch. I doubled the layer of 2 x 4’s on the concrete (laid flat) to raise up the deck a bit more. The deck is ironwood (Bolivian ironwood/ulin). My question has to do with how best to install the posts to the deck? One guy I know suggested I should lay them on top of the sleepers and deck around them. Someone else suggested that laying them on top of the deck would work just as well and I wouldn’t have to cut the decking around the posts. What do you guys think?
And what other secure options do I have for nailing the posts to the deck (or the sleepers) besides toe-nailing them?
Replies
are you re-using the 4x4 posts?
I'd install the posts on top of the new flooring. If possible, think about using a Simpson post anchor base. You could screw the base to the decking, set and fasten the post to the connector, and wrap a base detail to cover the connector. This will help keep the bottom of the post drier, so it'll last longer. Or, you could wrap the entire column with 1x, making it a 5" square column.
If that doesn't work, I'd use screws to fasten the posts. Drill pilot holes, toe the screws down, and you're done. With the ironwood decking, you'll probably have to drill a pilot hole into the decking, too.
Decking around the installed posts is, IMO, foolish, as well as more work.
Thanks, Shep.No, I'm using new 4 x4 pressure treated posts. I like the idea of using a post anchor brace and covering it with trim. I might not have enough decking at the edge to do that, however. Good to know that I can just use screws if I have to.
You of course will have solid shimming beneath the flooring at the location of the post base?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Calvin,The 4x4 posts should line up so that they're directly above the sleepers beneath the deck. Thanks for catching that! I'm not a carpenter by trade, but even I wouldn't be inclined to think that the decking alone would be sufficient support.
You might not forget the load transfer, but these threads have life of their own. Many people, some with less experience than you, might read this.
Best of luck on your project.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Calvin,Yes, that's why I thanked you for posting. You were obviously looking out for those who might not realize the potential danger. Thanks for offering a link to Quittin' Time. Looks like another good resource for folks.
You're welcome.
The one thing (of many) I've learned here. Take nothing for granted. An after many years of this trade, really take nothing for granted.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Thanks for catching that.
I forgot the obvious.
I might go a step further than calvin.
Why not secure them directly to the concrete? You said this is a porch as opposed to a deck, correct? (as in, there's a roof sitting atop the posts?)
I would prefer to transfer the roof load directly to the concrete. (What are the sleepers made from? Is there a chance they may crush/rot over time?)
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
I still think it's better to set the posts on top of the decking.
I'm assuming he's using PT sleepers, so rot/crushing shouldn't be a problem.
Either way would work, tho.
I wouldn't sit it atop the decking.
I think that would be akin to sitting a bearing wall on top of hardwood flooring. Worse perhaps as the decking will be exposed to the elements.
While PT shouldn't crush/rot, I have seen numerous instances where it does. As a matter of fact, I recently completed a porch repair where ants had wreaked considerable havoc on the PT framing.
My 2 cents.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Ants ate the PT?
I've seen plenty of porches, and the only ones that seem to have crushed under the posts are either from water infiltration/rot, or inadequate blocking under the decking.
And most of that is with old decks, built witout PT lumber, and decked with old fir T&G.
My feeling is that as long as the load is transfered thru the post to something solid under the decking ( the sleepers) , he should have no problems.
But that's the interesting thing about this work; there are a lot of solutions to any problem.
Ants ate the PT?
Yep. Hard to believe it myself. They had found a way in between fascia and frame.....and flooring and frame....and box columns and frame....and had nested themselves quite nicely.
This was the old stuff.....not sure if the new PT retards insects better or not.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
About all I know with the new stuff is the splinters hurt more than the old.
I hope the insects don't like it; what's the purpose if it doesn't repel the bugs.
JD, Calvin, Shep, et al,The sleepers are PT 2x4's laid flat (as opposed to on edge). As I mentioned previously, I have a double layer all around in order to gain another 1 1/2" in height. The posts would sit on top of the sleepers at the edge of the concrete. The sleepers on the long side (the porch is approx. 5'x14') will rarely get wet; there is an eave (approximately 12" wide) and then the gutter. I also plan on wrapping a length of decking around the outside of the sleepers (for aesthetics and for added protection from the weather). The sleepers on the short side WILL get a bit of weather (not a lot, though). I presently have a strip of Vycor on the top of the sleepers (I realize now that I should have taken the 4" width of Vycor I had and wrapped the edges instead of cutting it to 3"). I could still wrap the sides of the sleepers for added protection? The bottom layer of sleepers are glued to the concrete and attached with a number of concrete flush drives. The top layer of sleepers had to be shimmed because the concrete slopes in toward the house (at the wall, the shims are 3/4"), but the posts will sit on two solid layers (no shims in-between).The roof is a shed roof. The bulk of the weight is resting on the wall of the house 5' in from the edge of the porch.Another question:I previously had three posts supporting a 14' long beam, one end of which (the beam) is tied directly into the house. A carpenter acquaintance suggested that I could probably eliminate one of the posts (the previous posts were aligned at 3', 8', and 14') and put one at 7' and 14'. What do you think? How do you determine what is sufficient support?Edited 9/14/2006 11:32 am by redoakEdited 9/14/2006 11:33 am by redoak
Edited 9/14/2006 11:35 am by redoak
Given the added info on the porch situation....I'll stick with my original recomendation that the posts be anchored directly to the concrete.
As for the layout....aesthetically, I would try and go with 3 posts as opposed to 4 on a 14' span. BUT....you need to be sure that the beam is sized accordingly.
I'm not an engineer, nor do I know your location and the conditions affecting the load this roof will bear. (snow?) I would speak to your local inspector about the matter.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
JD,Thanks for your input! I wonder how hard it will be to cut out spaces in the sleepers for the posts? I can probably use a mortar chisel on the adhesive, but will definitely have to hachsaw through the flush drives because once they're even part way in, they're IN. So, definitely three posts, not just two? Got it.Real snow (like where I've lived previously: Chicago and NY) is not a problem where I live now (North of Seattle). Having an inspector look at the porch would probably be a prudent thing to do.Thanks, again.